OK, I'm Pissed Off (and not about the economy)

Neph and Surreal,

You are both "$L-obsessed oligarch grinding the poor & downtrodden under our steel-toed boots".

Disclaimer: Neph and Surreal are actually NOT "$L-obsessed oligarch grinding the poor & downtrodden under our steel-toed boots", but wonderful, lovely ladies.

Other disclaimer: I'm not against club goers having AV sex, I'm against club goers having AV sex (or anyone else for that matter) GAMING the system to avoid pulling their weight in SL.

-Flip

That's just not true.

Our stipends are NOT going away, just being reduced. You'll still be able to afford things and still be able to make money spinning your music.

Something to think about -- remember that the changes Philip mentioned will help to stabilize and support the value of the L$. So your money goes further.

Like the Fed, we need to make sure our currency retains its value, and so adjustments to the amount of money in circulation need to be made periodically. The impact of eliminating events support, in the grand scheme of the whole economy, is actually fairly small (about 1/20th of the money that goes into the system each month).

Well sure, but what sort of "weight" do you actually need to pull in SL? I love making skins -- and I love selling them because it means other people like my work. I'm always incredibly nutso happy if I see someone actually WEARING something I made. If SL is supposed to be whatever you want, then who are we to tell these people that they have to start pulling their weight? I mean, ideally of course everyone would be creating stuff, but not everyone is talented, and not everyone wants to put in the effort.

Robin, I have no issue with the stopping of the support of events now that I think about it some. However, to couple this with raising the ratings is not a good thing as rasing the ratings while lowering the income is only a stopgap. It doesn't solve the problem.

I think a few in here think I am totaly against this as a whole but I'm not it just seems its not enough. With the ratings tied to the stip delta its still gonna be gamed. Thus its not a solution but an economic slow down. In 6 months to a year we will be right back here again debating over the same thing.

Had, LL come out and said we are doing away with Ratings and Stip delta then I dont think there would have been as much of an uproar because the ratings system would be gone.

Setting everyone to 0 is not a solution either as the ratings system is still in effect and people that game it will continue to do so just at a possibly slower rate.

On top of that how do you reward players of significant time or expenditure of funds on the world. Some pay anywhere from US$ 40 to $US 600+ amonth on this virtual world and have worked extremely hard only to recieve a bandaid solution that cuts against the very grain of creativity.

What are some solutions?

Untie the Ratings to Stip delta and rename it to something else and reallocate it based on time actuall content or something else that is based on individual preformance vs. non-objective rating management.

Eliminate it totaly and adjust base stipend up to an averaged earned with stip delta IE

If 50 people are earning a total of 900 weekly and you have 2 that are earning 2k weekly then base it on a 52 average...that would give everyone a base of 942.

But in all essence do something that negates the archaic fact of the rating system.

Basically make it so that the arbitrary gaming of the system is elimnated.

The current solution of reducing stip delta and upping the rate charge is only going to slow the problem not solve it in the long run.

Shadow

So instead of 750 L a week, I'm getting 600 or something. No sweat.

Since I just started selling things again, I'm going to sit back and see what happens. I don't cash out my Lindens, so I'm indifferent to the economical changes.

Besides, reducing my prices now would suck for those who purchased them at the original price. I always felt miffed when I return to a store and find something I bought a week ago was stripped down by half. That's a good reason for me, personally, to not cut prices.

If I make new hair, I might slap a lower price of them. But they won't have the same things as the higher priced items. Like, instead of a blonde texture, it'll have a burnt, pukey-orange one.

right, so I would suggest possibly rethinking the other ramifications that are not solely economic that will come about because of this change. personally I'd rather see the host bonus for the event go away than the prize money that you can be refunded. I love hosting games and usually I give away much more money than I'm making on the event (my host fees more often than not turn into prize money) but I think that beside killing the garbage cluttered events we'll end up killing the actual meaty events in the game as well...

I just am not sure that this one aspect of the changes being made this week was thought through very well.

What costs are you bearing? Tier fees? If you are then that's your choice. No one is forcing you to buy land. You can still be here, and create, and do whatever you like doing without it.

My point is that if it's too expensive for the casual player to buy things, enjoys things, SL will surely lose a huge chunk of it's customers, which isn't good for any business.

Edit: I don't think the current change will have a massive impact on the stipends, so hopefully it won't prevent people from buying content. And I really hope they don't do away with stipends altogether at any point. But I noticed in world last night people were absolutely hysterical about it, talking about quitting and not spending.

Flipper just made my head spontaneously combust.

Yep.

Totally Agreed,
I do Dj. It costs me tons of cash in RL to keep the servers and websistes going to entertain people at events and have contests and such.
But here me now...The Economy as it exsists dosent....Its all made up and dosent mean a squat. The So called Economy is there so that people can have a sence of acomplishment and people can make RL money. And LL can make money.

Any other MMO that exists has people pay between 9.99 and 14.99 a month and still make more money then LL does apparently.

and We entertain people. We hold events and give out prizes, and no not all of it was Cash, we would buy cloths and give those out as well...now its going to be harder to do this couse my bonuses are going to drop and I will have to scrimp and save even more to be able to afford contest.

and I will NOT charge for prople to come to my events..Thats an Elitest attitude thats better left at the front door...This is second Life, Not real life...

DjNog
Http://www.rockngames.com

The argument goes something like this, and its nothing against creators or casual users. Its against people gaming the system, which costs everyone else more money. Here goes...

(1) People can buy an account for US$10. This is great. It appeals to the casual user, some one who won't use a lot of system resources, and doesn't need a lot of money. It also increases the user base and allows people an "extended trial" to see if SL is for them without sinking a large amount of money into SL.

(2) But wait! They can game the system through ratings and running nonsense events, so if they need more money, they game the systems instead of earning an honest Linden dollar.

(3) The people who own land, build, create, script, and so on have the biggest US$ and time investment in SL.

(4) Those creators are pulling weight for supporting Linden Lab/servers/salaries/etc more than they should since the people who are casual users (and not all of them, just some) are gaming the system to make L$. This allows them to avoid having to sink any US$ into (a) Linden Lab or (b) Gaming Open Market/IGE to buy L$ to support the creators / land owners who have put the biggest US$ and time investment, or to Linden Lab directly, causing everyone else to pay more for Linden Lab to be solvent.

Follow? That's why these loopholes have to be closed.

Regards,

-Flip

Yep, I get it. Still, there are more non-gaming-the-system folk than gaming-the-system folk, so my thought is that it'll initially hurt more people than it'll help. But, y'know, it could all turn out for the better.

I'm not really that passionate about the economy since I don't cash in on GOM, but there is an attitude that I've seen about all these clubgoers and suchlike which is "These people don't contribute anything whatsoever to SL except spam events and have bad grammar and spelling, so they don't count," which pisses me off a LOT. I just wasn't sure if you had that stance or not

Not at all! I love going to clubs... House of Pain and Cubey's Clubbiest Clubby Club being favorites... and goofing around and having a good laugh. I just see this loophole as needing closing... and the creators as needing more support. Without creativity, SL is nothing.

-Flip

That's what I was thinking too.

And like you, the SL economy isn't an issue for me. BUT I FEEL THE NEED TO PANIC ANYWAYS! IT'S CONTAGIOUS!!!!

Yes ... I have this urge to run around in a chicken avatar with my head chopped off and blood gushing out. I know where to get the blood ...

okay, i'll find a chicken avatar and we'll cut it's head off... I feel better already.

I hear running around naked is better... Meet me later in game and I'll explain further

I know this trick. It involves invisible clothes. I'm onto you, Talen.

It isnt an elitist attitude. Its called compensation for providing something unique. I am sure you feel your music is unique and is what you enjoy most out of DJing. People make clothes in SL to make money, why can't you charge for what you create (i.e. an atmosphere with unique tunes). This isn't elitist, its called getting paid for putting in effort. You have to recover for your cash out of pocket.

In the current setup, you can only clear $250L for your event after giving away $500 of it as established within event guidelines. So your telling me that $250L a day for an event a day can pay your webserver and streaming music servers cost? (This isnt' even tkaing into account your time, and your costs for prizes...

hmmm....

$250L * 30 days = $7500L
GOM exchange averages $1000L = 4US$

This equals about $30US...your telling me that covers your fees? I dont think so. Add in your dwell, ok maybe you get another $30 there...so $60 might cover your fees.

Now think of this...
$25L cover *20 av's per event average (low for my events ) = Well geez thats $500L a day. You just doubled your revenue and if you feel you are providing a good social environment, goodmusic, and good times, well geez isnt that worth paying what you would to neg rate someone???

Yep. Granted I was in SL for at least 6 months before I started designing. The reason I started designing was because I need a creative outlet and was unemployed from March - September 2004 and needed something to do to pass the time. Sure making money from my designs is an added bonus. But it is not and never has been my sole reason for being here. I try to have a decent price range of goods from high-priced semi-exclusive items to bargain bin packages and discounted older designs...and of course everything that falls in between those two extremes. Not only that but I often donate my wears for no cost for raffles and charity events.

I spend alot of time gathering resources, making fabric textures and then designing. I have picked up design reference books to aid in designing. If added up the countless hours I have spent designing since last May, they probably add up to counting as a full time job considering the amount of hours I have dedicated to designing, promoting the store and other designers as well.

i'd say more, but my sinus medication is making me a bit loopy

I think people would rather pay for something "tangible" (although that's an odd word when you're discussing anything in a virtual world) ie, something like clothes or vehicles that they can carry around in their inventory.


I think people would be more hard pressed to part with their lindens for an experience. Regardless of how good it is.

Yeah Av Sex is ok but nothing matches crashing into a sim wall with a hover craft at Mach 1 and getting ejected in the motorcycle sit position while your craft continues off world...now thats an experience worth 350 Lindens..hehe.

Jade Wolf Hover Style get your bike today..

Shadow

Well I have been putting this to the test for a couple months now, and people DO pay the cover. it isnt tangible to you as you dont see value in it. For those who do see perceived value, its a trivial amount to pay to keep the option available to attend in the future by paying for the services received.

I KNOW! IT'S A CONSIPRACY! This is all really a ploy that Char, Jill, Nova, and Jeska conjured up to get my hair for a discount.

Lash is a dork. Pass it on.