Porn Shops Etc

Look I am not a prude, but there seems to be a lot of porn shops and S&M type stuff. Is this really necessary?

presumably if they're in business, they're doing business. so i guess that means people want want they sell. so i guess that means that yes, it's as necessary as any other shop in SL.

you state you arent a prude and then wonder if porn shops are necessary?

What would make you question their existence? Being that you admittedly arent a prude in the first place.

Prude or not, would you mind a S&M porn shop in your back yard?

How about a bordello?

Such things tend to lower the land value of a neighborhood in real life, I don't see why it woudln't in Second Life.

LF

Sure. NP at all.

Although if you do mean literally IN my backyard I'd prolly want some kind of rent or a cut of the profits or something, whether RL or SL. Moreso in SL, cos that means they're using my prims and land.

Only if it were visible from my back yard. If it's inside a normal looking building I wouldn't care. Now, if the building was ugly as sin as well, that would be annoying. (Of course I'd never have a problem helping to improve a building if someone just wasn't experienced enough to make a nice looking build.)

I met a man this morning walking around with his penis out. I just felt that was not the direction I would like to see SL go. I love meeting people, building and shopping. I like the PG and R rated clothes and names but x rated.....

Che if you saw this silly man in a PG sim then you'd have grounds for an abuse report.

In M sims yeah porn shops are ok...

hehe.. My place is a normal looking building. I keep all my adult items upstairs and behind a door with warning signs (all neatly done of course), and keep the rest of my items downstairs in the main area of my shop and gathering areas. I can't tell you how many regulars I've had to my shop that visited close to ten times before ever realizing what exactly I kept upstairs. LOL

Not to say the adult industry is bad RL or SL, but you will notice the most popular places or dwell based places are adult/mature clubs or beachs etc.

This is mostly during events, usually when big prizes or lots of prizes are being handed out. Its the way SL goes.

Popular clothing and attachments and Items are almost all sexual in nature

Almost everyone loves mature sims and things of sexual nature. What can you do other than enjoy or ignore.

Much like the rest of the net.

Che, I don't want ethics police but I would hope some common sense isn't too much to ask. Apparently that person either has none or didn't care to use it.

If you have to make an effort to find it, no complaints. Oh by the way.....um where is your place Pendari? rofl
(j/k)

BRING IT ON!

That said, if you have a problem with such things in SL, don't walk into a Mature sim. Period.

Personally, I don't consider porn in SL to be distasteful, just... silly.

I mean, considering all the effort one must go through to make your AV sexual -- including the production of textures, objects, creative anim management -- and given the benefit -- you can... watch your AV go at it, I guess -- I have to wonder why people go through with it.

I mean, really, given my (limited) experience in RL *giggles childishly*, I don't see how doing *anything* sexual in SL can possibly compare to even my poorest experiences in RL. Are these people *actually* excited by nude, pole-dancing AVs? By the cleverly-shaped toruses and spheres that are poor estimates for genitalia? Do they actually gain anything approaching real emotional attachment or physical satisfaction after sitting on full-alpha boxes rotated cleverly so that one AV can stick an attached object roughly in the vicinity of the attached object on the other AV?

If so, they need to get a life, and excuse me for saying so.

Those efforts can be better-spent elsewhere, I think, but I'm with most of the crowd when they say, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, which I do. Still. Silly people.

Well, leaving aside the rest of your comments, which amount to you second guessing what it might be that people do and what their reasons for doing so might be - and then saying they should get a life if thats the case because you think it's silly...

Surely building houses is silly? can't live in a house here.

People here seem very willing to pass judgment on how other people choose to spend their Second Lives. If people want to simulate sex, let them. If people want to build fully fitted kitchens, let them. If people want to toast virtual smores over a virtual flame effect, let them.

In fact, why not let them live their second lives how they want to? Why not live yours how you want to and stop worrying about how others live theirs?

If you want to understand, ask someone. Preferably before imagining what you think to be the case and passing judgment on it as silly.

But I don't think you do want to understand. I think you just want to condemn people because you don't agree with them. It's ok. It happens here all the time. As you'll have noticed if you read these forums.

But it's really very simple. If you don't like what certain people do in their Second Lives, there are plenty of other people to meet. If you don't like what goes on in certain places, there are plenty of other places to go.

Yes, actually, house-building is pretty silly, too. There's a lot of stuff we do in SL that's little more than a carry-over from RL, and I think it's silly that, in a world where so much physical and meta-physical freedom is afforded us, that we choose to so closely emulate those form which, in RL, only exist because they are physically necessary. Silly, silly, silly.Ouch! Scathing! Well, I can't speak for the rest of the forum-reading community, but I'm not passing judgment on anyone in particular. I'm really quite well-meaning. I'm just exercising my rational faculty (since I have a brain, and all), which says:

Simulated people having simulated sex = Silly

Which is more of a benevolent, well-humored observation than a blind, ignorance-committed rant. I may think it's silly, but if you don't, that's fine, and well, I think you're silly, too. Nothing wrong with being silly.

Indeed, we're all silly in our silly little human ways. Humans are silly, silly creatures.

Well, if anyone is severely hurt by being branded as "silly" by my ramblings, I will apologize, and I will do my best to "understand," which if I take your meaning correctly, means to "suspend judgment," which in my eye is tantamount to suspending thought itself, but I don't want to get too philosophical (yet).

<shnippeth>
Agreed. Which is why I said:

*ahem*

So I guess I don't see why we're not seeing eye-to-eye here, Krissy-poo, perhaps you're responding to a more general attitude to which my post prompted a strong reaction. And, if I might say so, your being judgmental about my being judgmental is rather silly. So now you can lambaste me for being judgmental about your being judgmental about my being judgmental. Fun!

So. What would you like to see people do in Second Life instead? What do you do in Second Life? That doesn't mirror some RL equivalent, I mean. Perhaps you could contribute in a positive way by illustrating your visions of what SL should be instead of judging what others choose to do.



You made a guess at what people do and their reasons and condemned it as silly. What I meant, since I wasn't clear before, was that rather than say 'I hear there is a sex scene here. They must do x,y and z and get off on it. teehee. how silly', maybe you might take the time to find out what really does go on and what people's reasons might be. Then if you still think it's silly, fine. Don't do it.



If you mean am I getting sick of all the bitching and judgmental attitudes, then yes. Which was why I held up the forums as an example. But no, as you prolly guessed, I was mainly having a pop at you.



See, there you go again.. you make an assumption about my motives then judge me as judgemental based on your assumption.



Mind if I don't, beyond what I just said? Ta muchly.

I hate bunnies! They're so cute and stuff! And cuddly, and long ears, especially the droopy ones! HATE HATE HATE!!!

And kittens can just go suck my toe!

I like kittens.

Kittens taste like tuna.

I like bunnies.

(No idea why I was just reminded of a character on Lexx, of all shows, but oh well!)

Ah. I see. So you breeze in, make obtuse and ill informed observations about other people and what they choose to do with their second lives, tell them that they need to 'get a life', and generally condemn second lifers for their inability to think beyond emulating RL.

And when asked what they might be doing instead, when asked for a positive contribution to the discussion, or when asked to tell us (or better, put your money where your mouth is and go do it in SL and show us) your visions for what we should be doing in with this 'physical and meta-physical freedom' we're afforded, you hijack the thread.

Welcome to the SL forums. You'll fit right in here, it seems.


(Edited cuz I seem to manage to leave out whole words in sentences at this time in the morning. I'll be ok after another 5 coffees)

I debated on wether to add to this post or not but, ahh, what the heck

It seems that in any forum that is enabling as second life, people will make it sexual, even if thats not the intention. You will find it every, chat rooms, yes meant for chatting, but you all the time see people looking for online encounters there, using the forum as their grounds for doing so. Because of the anonymity factory, people also use things like chat rooms to grief, just as some to in SL. There are some undeniable parallels here. From the very beginning of Second Life, there were men and women who relished in the sexual underside of what Second Life allows. They take their toons and make them do "things" that others either found offensive, or found exhillirating. It was far less popular back then as it is today, however it has always existed in some facet. It's really just human nature to deviate something 'clean' into something shocking or perverse. There is always an audience it caters too. This audience will flock to places like SL, There, anyplace they can interact in that respect.

Respectfully, people make SL their own experience, in essence, it can be whatever we want. You want be be an entreprenuer? SL is the place to do it. You want to build great things? SL is the place to go. You want to make awesome thing happen through scripting? SL is the place to make it happen. It's so many different opportunities in one, we can pick and choose what we want to make of it, just as if you want to open a porno shop, open a bordello, become a Hustler or champion xxx star- please the most male/female citizens? SL is the place to do it.

It's a fact that this is an ever-burgeoning community, clothing, attachments, events ect. of a hardcore sexual nature will be an ever-present entity in SL because it is probably the most finanically rewarding service to be in, thats why so many ventures are centered around sex.

Lindens have been trying hard to police mature content in PG sims, where once this was rather casual and easy to run into anywhere, it is now failrly contained to their respective regional areas. However it is impossible to avoid altogether. You simply have to accept the fact that it's there. Just like in RL, you will not be able to completely squelch all you don't agree with. You simply have to respect it serves a purpose for someone, and go on your way. Just because it's there does not mean you have to participate.

Some of the nicest people I know make the sexual nature of this service the basis of their second life. These individuals are not rude, crude, or hard to get along with, in fact I really adore their company when they stop in. It just so happens, thats their game, just because we don't have *that* in common doesn't mean we have nothing in common

The same argument can be made of many things in SL, the fact there is, there will always be something that someone doesn't agree with, be it a chuch, or a gay pride build, or anything someone finds socially, morally or ethically unacceptable. Thats the great thing about second life, we can do as we place, customize it entirely, and enjoy it for what it is. To deny yourself the privilige of knowing someone because they don't share sex as a common interest is a loss on both sides. I don't participate in that part of SL, i play with my boyfriend, we build together, make friends, learns scripting, attend events, create avatars... but i would never judge anyone specifically for doing what I do, which is making the service what THEY want it to be. It's the Second Life Right

Warmly,
Phaylen

Very nicely said, Phaylen. Couldn't agree more.

Well, 'cept for one thing. You called me a toon... *cry*

I prefer the term 'avatar', thank you.

Kris.

My last post wasn't an attempt to "hijack the thread," but rather an attempt to interject some humor into an otherwise escalating debate. It was an attempt to diffuse tension.

I didn't want to attempt to respond directly to your latest analysis of my post, because, for whatever reason, my increasingly good-humored responses were being read as increasingly vindictive, judgmental, etc.

Why are you so committed to reading everything I write as community-destroying? Why must you spin everything I contribute as judgmental and bitchy? Take a moment for a self-evaluation, Kris.


I wasn't making any such assumption. I was taking the absurd logic of our back-and-forth and taking it to an absurd degree in an attempt to show general good-will despite our disagreement. Yet, somehow, you took this as yet another unfounded "judgment," this time upon your own character. I guess I was trying to be too subtle.

Can it hurt that we take a moment to step back and laugh every now and then?


Can you just... look at that phrase for a moment... You claim that I've "condemned" the actions of unknown SLifers as "silly." "Condemned," you state. It seems such a strong word for the label. "DAMN YOU ALL, YOU'RE SO SILLY!!" Maybe this is a language barrier thing, because where I come from, "silly" isn't really a pejorative label. It indicates, from my perspective, a sort of benevolent bemusement. It doesn't mean that I won't afford people the respect they deserve when I learn that they are involved in the SL sex industry, nor does it mean that I will think any less of them for their sex-activities. Haven't I made it clear that I don't care what they do? Isn't it okay for me to think that it's silly anyway?

But you're right in that I was being somewhat presumptive in making conclusions about what genitalia-attachments, pubic-textures, and sex-animations were used for. I mean, I suppose a guy might want a detachable penis for a hoop-toss game, or an AV might want to toy with gender issues in-game, or maybe so-and-so just wants to be able to frolic on the beach with the appropriate bits flopping about. But if the larger part of the buying audience for these things are interested in things *other* than being overtly sexual, I would be surprised. I don't think I reached an unreasonable conclusion about what these things are being used for, and you certainly, for your part, haven't provided any counter-examples.

As for what I would like to see people invest their energies in otherwise -- well, I'm not going to take that bait. I'm not trying to assert here that I'm some sort of arbiter of taste and that I have, in my mind, decided what SL needs and what it doesn't need.

But to try to communicate a little of how I think about the potential of SL, let's try some amateurish math.

Let R = {r1,r2,r3,...,rN} be the set of all root scripts and objects made available to us by LL.

Let C = {1,c1,c2,c3,...,cN} be the set of all cognitive functions which can manipulate their arguments, which will be objects and scripts, to form new objects and scripts, with the exception of 1, which we will call the "identity" function, which maps an object or script onto itself.

The domain and range for the functions cN E C will be the set R U S, where S = {All sM | sM = cN(sN1,sN2,sN3,...,sNk), where cN E C and sN1,sN2,sN3,...,sNk E R U S}.

Now, while |R| is finite and |C| is finite but large, |R U S| is practically infinite. Now, all those things resembling objects and actions in real life form a subset of R U S, but I feel, not a very large one, especially if we take that subset to be finite (which it might be, due to the limitations of SL). So we might ask what compels us to limit ourselves so often to this small subset of possible creations within SL.

Well, the answer is really quite obvious. What interest would we humans have in a SL if it didn't at least have some passing similarity to our everyday lives? We have a language of gestures and objects and activities which, in our RLives, have meaning and beauty, and to attempt to abandon that rich language in hopes of creating something totally new and different in SL seems not only counterproductive, but futile. So far be it from me to insist that, in SL, we create nothing that imitates RL.

But there are things in our subset of R U S which follow real-life models for no other reason than to follow real life models. Would you, in your RL, have any compulsion to build a kitchen if you didn't need to eat? Would you, in your RL, have any compulsion to house yourself if you had no need for shelter? In our RLives, these things exist because they are physically necessary. But in our SLives, these physical needs simply do not exist. Moreover, the infinite order of R U S suggests that there is a great potential beyond those things which imitate life -- a great number of scripts to be written and objects to be created. And so the creation of shelters and kitchens and so on in SL must prompt a question -- why?

And we can find answers to that question. As it happens, I *do* think that "homes" serve a function in our SLives, but their primary function is one that, in our RLives, is mostly secondary, namely, socialization. The same can be said of many things we build in SL -- they serve similar but different functions in SL -- including malls, parks, public areas. But on the specific issue of sexual anatomy, I guess I draw a blank.

Why does sex exist in real life? Well, there are giggly answers and not-so-giggly answers, and more than I can probably think of or list. But seeing sex-objects in SL should prompt us to ask what purpose they serve, and confound it, despite your attempts to *cough* enlighten *cough* me, Kris, I can't see that they serve any purpose beyond the imitation of RL itself. It's pretty much like standing around in your SL kitchen making a meal. It's play-acting, an obstacle more than a facilitator to the sorts of emotional bonds that make SL worth living.

That is why I call it "silly."

And I will reiterate that, if anyone wants to play-act in this way, I'm more than willing to let them, and if I ever meet such people, you can be assured that I will treat them with the respect they deserve, and if we turn out to get along well, I might count them among my friends. I'm not "judging" their behavior beyond assessing its suitability for my SLife, and by contributing my opinion here in the forums, I'm not attempting to "hijack" or "judge" or "condemn," I'm merely participating in the lively back-and-forth I enjoy.

As for what *I'm* doing in-world to contribute to SL, well, that's quite irrelevant to the present issue, but I will respond to your request because i know that you will criticize me if I don't.

You can rest assured, though, that I *do* have my own goals and aspirations for SL, and I *do* hope to contribute something unique and new. Although, as I'm sure you've noticed, I haven't been around for that long, and what I'm trying to do is, shall we say, non-trivial for someone without any background in graphic design and a whole lot of time normally to spend in-world. I hope to succeed, but I don't claim here and now that I will, and I can't even say that you or anyone else will like it if I do. I guess we'll just have to see.

Kris, I ask that you review your responses to mine and ask yourself which of the two of us is more consistently negative, more harshly judgmental. I harbor no ill will toward you, and I hope that can be clear by the tone I've taken in my posts. I fear that the same cannot be said for yourself.

*blink*

Phineas,

I scanned thru your post and saw my name a few times. So I promise when I get a spare hour I'll read it all...

Or better yet, come see me in world and we'll talk. I am a competent builder, reasonably ok scripter and a (ex, I guess) professional graphic artist. And - and this might surprise you... a reasonable person. So I'm told. And I'm genuinely interested in hearing your ideas. Maybe I can even give you some pointers regarding some of the stuff you wanna do?

Edit: P.S. Oh... btw. I changed my sig in your honour ... I saw this and thought of you.

I like porn. I like erotica. I like shops that sell those two. I don't like it when people try to make me (and others) feel bad for an act that is natural and (if you do it right) lots of fun.

Funny thing about environments like this where we are able to 'mask' our true selves: our inhibited selves are checked at the door. Most people feel free to express themselves as they normally *would not* in RL.

To me, that is both great and also very sad. It's great that people are expressing that facet of themselves. But, it is sad that the society we've crafted frowns upon delighting in that side of ourselves in the RL.

someday....