ymmv - ignoring people

i do advocate ignoring people in the forus, if they bother you enough. and i do think PN has a few screws loose (i mean how many people do you know that can be an actual victim, and still come out as the unsympathetic party). thus PN is not worth listening to.

however, i think starting a campaign against PN in the forums is despicable.
and lumping BS into that campaign is even worse.

it is one thing to not listen, it is quite another to silence that person so other people can't listen. and using social pressure to do this, even if voluntary is an attempt to silence people.

PN has a few valid points. they aren't original, and they aren't as groundbreaking as he thinks they are. he isn't as smart as he tries to make himself out to be. sadly, all those good and valid points get lost in the self-aggrandizing noise he makes.

calling BS a stooge for PN is completely unwarrented. BS seems to recognize (as do many others) that PN raises a few good topics that are worthy of discussion. BS also seems to recognize that any that starts with PN will devolve into an PN-egofest. so BS tried to ressurrect a few of the topics (sadly, not with the most tact). this does not make BS a stooge.

my 2l$.

ymmv

Actually, they started the campaign, friend. Some of us are just sick of it and are ready to put an effective end to it.

Join us. You'll be glad you did.

Just one note, I'm not all BS

(BS being an unfortunate acronym for bullshit which will no doubt forever be used beyond this point in time)

i never thought you were.

I'm with you on that, StoneSelf, as would be, I'll wager, a great many others, if they only had your courage to stand up and say so.

coco

not listening not listening

stone, it doesn't seem so much an organized campaign as a sudden mass admission that we're already not paying attention.

Well..I advocate everyone's right to make the decision to ignore whoever they want, however I also definitely believe that everyone has the right (LL willing) to post their opinions and thoughts in these forums as long as they don't violate the ToS.

variety is the spice of life, even if some flavors leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

The silent masses do not exist, Coco. Nice try. Rather, people have finally reached their limit with this idiocy and how these two assclowns are taking over any discussion before it can effectively get off the ground.

They need to stop. And if they refuse, they need to be wholly, soundly, and permanently ignored.

If they cannot grasp how their actions result in this end, that's merely testament to the profound break in mental function under which they labor. Which is also not my problem.

I do not pay Linden Labs to put up with the mewling of social misfits who cannot find a way to interact productively with the rest of the playerbase.

You know what needs to be stopped? This lynch mob mentality, that's what. You can take every extreme thing Prok has ever said and bundle it up in one big bundle and none of it - NONE OF IT - holds a candle to what you are doing. It comes NOWHERE NEAR. All this banning, this shunning talk - it's shameful, it's Nazi stuff. Horrid.

If you guys want to talk about something else, then why the heck don't you just talk about something else? Surely you don't need to silence people who disagree with you, or who you dislike, before you can hear yourselves talk. Do you?

I don't know how you sleep at night.

coco

Coco, if you were having a dinner party and one of your guests started insulting all the others non-stop by labeling them with derisive terms, accusing them of malicious qualities they don't actually possess, and just generally being an asshole would you want them to stay? If you tried to respectfully disagree with them and instead of listening they just started shouting louder would you think your other guests in the wrong for calling them on their behavior and wanting to show them the door? Prokofy's behavior is not defensible. I will probably sleep better now that I'll be going to bed feeling less aggravated and antagonized.

If you guys want to talk about something else, then why the heck don't you just talk about something else?

Careful, dear... you're beginning to sound like a parrot.

People like Prokovy thrive on disruption and dissent. They refuse to follow rules. They insist everyone else do, but they themselves refuse. They claim some 'greater good' grants them grace from the rules.

It does not.

In the face of this, the only sane response is to ignore them.

It is an elegant solution that requires no intervention on the part of Linden Labs and which permits the negative element to continue their favorite past time of trying to divide and destroy the community without it actually affecting anyone.

When I see people speak about how tired they are of this fool, I merely remind them they have a choice. They should exercise that choice.

You amuse me with your shrill insistance this is 'nazi'. You probably weren't even an itch in your father's pants when the horror that was Nazi Germany existed. You insult everyone who survived that horror by belittling it as you do.

Here's a clue for you, tootz -- no one has to listen to this paranoid ramble. And no one who chooses to do so no longer is wrong to make that choice.

You like his thoughts? Knock yourself out. Me, I'm all for silencing him. And guess what? I have that power and there's nothing you can do about it. So stop trying to force me to think like you, and stop pretending you're somehow better... because if you were, the last thing you'd be doing is telling me what a nazi I am for wanting some peace and quiet.

Look on the bright side, Stone. It takes at least two to start a flamewar, and some of the people who have joined the "shunning" are also some of the most likely to end up entrenched in said flamewars as a result of their sometimes rude and snarky replies (though if you're reading this, Prok: you pay too much attention to them, IMO, and that adds just as much fuel to the flames).

Fewer flamewars mean those of us with calmer heads can engage in halfway decent debate within the inflamitory threads. Believe it or not, it's possible for some of us.

Chip, this isn't a dinner party, consisting of your or your friend's invited guests. This is a forum, with regulations, presided over by mods, intended for use by ANY player of this game.

I have participated on two forums before which Prok also participated in. Many of his comments were met with derision, or dismissed, and many were considered and treated seriously. Sometimes an argument would go on between him and some others. But it was never like this. I don't know what it is here - whether people just have to be right, or whether they are uptight, or so immersed in SL that they get rabid about it, or what. But in the other forums, people were willing to let Prok be Prok and just go on being thesemves.

I think it's important to remember we do have free speech here, to the extent allowed by the TOS (and apparently, judging by the various attacks on people, quite a bit farther than the TOS).

Moreover, it is the mods' job to decide who gets banned and who doesn't. Also, I think campaigns against individuals - as well as naming individuals as the topic of threads - are against the TOS. If anyone should be banned, it is those who are doing these things.

The fact is, even when Prok is saying NOTHING, people can't stand it and start up threads ABOUT him. Now, I ask you. Is this not sick, or what?

I have heard an awful lot of excuses for what I see as atrocious behavior since I have been on these forums, and what's worse, that behavior isn't confined to one individual (as many of you have made the case that Prok's behavior is bad), but shared by a number of individuals, whose sense of power and self-importance grows more and more as they incite one another. "But he MAKES us do it, don't you see?" is what I keep hearing. No. He doesn't make you do it. YOU are doing it, completely of your own volition.

This is nothing but kindergarten. When all the kids ganged up on one kid in the corner. Are you going to be with them, ganging up on that kid? Or are you going to take a stand against that behavior, no matter what your opinion of that particular kid is?

Or it's something much worse than kindergarten. Something more akin to what goes in in less civilized societies, where there is no freedom of speech, and there is no rule of a law that at least attempts to be just.

coco

Good points Elle. I find Prokofy's attitude and manner so entirely offensive that I end up sinking to his level and engaging in brawls that serve no useful purpose. I am accepting my own blame in this and simply removing the catalyst so I won't feel so compelled to be a part of the problem.

Perhaps we just value civility more here, Coco.



No one is trying to take away Prok's ability to speak freely. We're just letting it be known that we no longer care to listen.



By sticking up for Prokofy you are defending atrocious behavior.

Yeah, I thought Elle had a good point, too. After all, nobody is forcing us to read ANYBODY'S posts. Or respond to them. Therefore no need to silence anyone.

coco

Why do you need to talk about it? No one pledges to read every post as a condition of entering the forum. Someone posts a plea for the Linden's to ban these ppl because of a self proclaimed lack of self control? Confessions from inviduals who have tried to ignore but they only could last only 24 hours. More than one comparison to an accident scene which they can't stop from looking at. (Btw, keeping your eyes focused on the brake lights of the rubber necker in front of you is an option, too. While I acknowledge your freedom of choice, I do recommend it as a potential time and cost saver.)

This need to initiate or endorse a group shun, to hop from one post to another to defend and recruit, to proclaim how good it feels...

(Born again christian? TY JESUS!)

...The only thing that I feel I am bearing witness to is a strong urge to back away. Belonging to a group has many positive aspects; group mentallity, however, is scary and ugly.

Ignoring is not silencing. It's a non-violent way of letting someone know that we are fed up with his behavior. It's an entirely civil and peaceful way to respond to the situation.

Ask yourself that question, Margaret. You already have the answer, as you're here to post.



Need? No. Kindly refrain from assuming motivation. I assure you, you do not know mine.



Likewise, your issues with religion are both irrelevent and not pertinent to the discussion.



Well, Margaret, it is a little hard to back away when you're here posting, now isn't it?

But thank you for demonstrating by example part of the reason that reminding people to use ignore is a service.

I rarely post here on the forums but I read daily. I must agree with you, Coco. Let others flame me for it (I hope no one will though) but I'm starting to see an almost school yard bully behavior going on here. The forums are here for us all, if you don't like what someone says ignore it and move on. There's no need for a campaigne against someone, they have just as much right to their opinions and views and just as much right to post them here on the forums.

*going back to hide in the corner again*

I find it curious why you are replying to this thread. By your own words "Why do you need to talk about it?"

Shunning is a very old practice and a very narrow minded one as well. Then again it was created by a narrow minded people so how could it be otherwise.

Aww. So impassioned!

I would posit that Prokofy railing on and on for months against people whose only crime is being cordial with Linden Lab is more than justification for shutting him down publicly.

He has brought this response upon himself.

Yes, what was it we were always told over and over as kids? If someone is bothering you? Ignore them or you are part of the problem?

Somehow that is now nefarious and "silencing'?

Talk about dramatic exaggeration. People ignoring someone who adds nothing but negativity to the community in no way stops them from still standing on their soapboxes with their megaphones crying the End is Near. It just makes their audience smaller and doesn't induce manic replies to each and every person who thinks differently.