Warning to Landowners

I am still quite interested on what supposively happened to start this all off. Indeed Soren, things can be taken out of context, but hearing both sides of an issue allow there to be a more complete picture, which I don't have. All I have is what Angel has told me, which makes it seem she is not clear what caused this also, and the fact that I am being accussed of personally harrasing people and having a record of such. Okay, sure, state that I was banned from the land due to my association with Angel, nice, dandy. That is the truth. However, file complaints and state that I personally have been abusive,and have a history of it, well, that I know is not the truth. I would suspect that the Lindens also know this, seeing as it is a simple matter of checking my login logs (which I am sure they have), to realize I was not around durring the reported time of abuse. When one's story has holes in it, others tend not to believe it. I don't know if I should be concerned that someone has hacked my account (which I doubt). If there has been messages from "myself" besides the two I posted above, it is someone whom coded an object that is names "Alondria Lefay". That would explain how the messages got through mute also,

Anyways, I find this whole situation a bit distrubing. Angel, can act rash, I'll admit that. She has a temper. But she has also helped quite a few people (at least that I witnessed). I have also seen many people provoke her, stating sexual harrassing things against her, coding snoop devices and bouncers which they send around her, a group of newbies come and harrass her, whom I would imagine were someone's seconds (since they knew too much to be "new", etc. No, she is not innocent, but often I have seen there are deeds done on both sides. Regardless, love her, hate her, don't care about her, don't file abuse reports on those whom happen to associate with her. I can understand Matina's protests she ran. That was good. It clearly expressed her point, and was in world. I can handle that. It is when I get accused of things out of world (i.e. abuse reports... it is not an in character ordeal, it is a real world, possible legal ramification situation) that just really disturbs me.

Anyways, I probably typed enough incomprehendable ramblings. If Soren or someone else could please fill me in with what exactly supposively occurred to prompt all this.

Just thinking of possible situations. Let's say you're in a shared group and share mod permissions on some builds (IE LindenWorld) and Angel puts an 'abusive' script in an object that shows you as the owner.

Who do I report?

You have a somewhat of a point there, Ironchef, however, nothing was Deeded, and I don't even have permissions in the area of question. As far as that occurring, I would appreciate someone reporting what supposively occurred. (I am presuming this example was illustrative and not factual.) I suppose with a group deeded object, yes, the associates of the group would make sense to complain about. As far as the permissions, well, if one knows that someone else placed the abusive script, it would be logical to report the instigator. If one does not, I suppose reporting the owner of the object is all they can do. Again, I would hope though they would express their concern the the owner before, or at least as well. It could just be a bug.

Let's not jump to conculsions. We are following up on this but won't have answers until at least Monday. There may be a bug that is adding to the confusion. But Linden isn't in the habit of taking land away and would not do so without a refund.

Just to clerify -
I said nothing of alondria.
If it is a trashing of angle so be it. The way she has treated me and others in the past is unacceptable to me. I am in no way shape or form telling other people what to think of her, I'm stating what I think of her and her actions. If someone takes my point of view into their own, i cannot stop them, that is their decision. You like angle for your own reasons derek, and I dont like her for mine. Please dont tell me I cant post how I feel about her, when you can. o.O My post was not trying rally people up against her. And I'm not bashing lindens. I am stating how i see they handle situations with her. Lindens are great people who have provided a wonderful game for us all to play. But that doesnt change the fact that they took sorens land without a refund. That doesnt change the fact that there had to be a protest against her to take that big billboard down. Dosent change the fact that she basically did everything she could to run charlie and I out of kissling, now does it?

Again I feel very odd posting this. I really dont like showing my stripes this much, if you know what I mean. I dislike confrontation in online games. Its really not worth it. Yet I feel compled to explain how I feel about this. What she did in kissling hurt. It wasnt just about a big bilboard, or her buying land that was accidentally left unclaimed by the next owner. It was the fact that she was so content to be malicious to so many people. People who just wanted to have fun in sl. She enjoyed it, thrived on it. How can I be still, and calm and understanding to a person who ruined the enjoyment I get out of the game I met my current bf on?

well I guess I'll leave it at that. Just so i dont have to post on this again:
These are MY opinions
You don't have to listen to me
I dont want to start a 'I hate angle group'
I do not pick who you can or cant like.

(edit: this was being written while that linden post was made.. just so ya know)

While I agree with the refund part Haney, the Lindens are actually known for taking away land before in any way contacting the owner. I've had this happen to me on 2 occasions, and on the 3rd I simply left them an abuse report beforehand indicating to take the land once they followed up on the report (long story).

Anyhow, on the previous 2 occassions, the first time I was never able to speak to a Linden about it, and the second I was able to speak to Peter about 1 week after the land was taken from me, and finally got it back a couple days later.

The sequence of events for "land abuse" has always seemed a little out of order to me. I always figured the owner should in some way be contacted beforehand (where possible, of course). And with the way land is setup in 1.1, how can one possibly have their land revoked for blocking navigation? The blocking system was put in specifically in a way that it does not allow for this, right?

I think we might need a little "Judicial review" of the land revocation process post 1.0, as perhaps now will allow the benefit of being fair to the owner while still following up on an abuse report?

My earlier post was more about the whole land issue and how David and Soren are describing it. The trashing was more steered toward the anti SL media group. When it was started, Angel and Alondria (Angel a bit more) seemed to be what most people who were in it talked about and some of the things some of those people said got to me because they are good friends of mine and I don't like hearing how they are terrible people (as some people had put it).

Well they are not... she is

And if you havent had her on your back harrassing and banning you whenever you make a move... well then I guess you wont ever understand how THAT makes the harassed person feel.

I was the harrassed person for a few weeks but we were able to talk and resolve things and now we are good friends.

lol, i talked to Angel, tried to resolve things. Things seem to be under stood. Then i noticed i was flying through the air next. And it said i was being ejected from her land.

hmmmmm, wonder why she made me go their in the 1st place lol, i think she enjoyed that quite a bit.

I hate the way this thread is getting to me - like PERSONALLY getting to me. I hope this is my last post lol

Okies Derek, that is your choise - I would never have made friends that way as I put trust very high and personally I could never have trusted such a person. You are of course in your title to defend your friends and speak your feelings, just remember; so are her victims.

When you first get attacked by this Angel you wonder why and what have you done. I had built a shopping center she saw fit to put her billboards in front of all entrances- moving the boards after me as I moved my center- then finally getting all the land around me and ban me from it.
When you realize you're just the next victim on her list that is kinda comforting. And it was by expression our anger we got her off our back - united. In my corner of the world we are taught to not be silent victims - to me that goes for RL and SL.

My partner in crime Cailyn has a neg rating on each of the three - she got that from Angel. Do you know why? Cuz she is my partner. She never talked to Angel or had anything else to do with her, yet she got rated negatively.
That tells me a lot of what kinda peace Angel wants in her SL.

I never said I dont like her friends tho - actually I credited Alondria for her behaviour in this very forum AND i have rated her positively

Have fun!
Matina

I've banned on person from my little bit of land in Tehama, but that was because they were scamming for money and had no interest in anything beyond that.

Another option to remove pests from your land if you don't want to ban them is to make your land a gaming/fighting zone, give them fair warning and then blast away.

They may get the idea they are bugging you then.

As always, it's our policy not comment on specific incidents of abuse or discipline. I can, however, point out a few things that are always true:

1. We don't rely on 'hearsay' or personal testimony when determining the validity of an abuse report -- we personally investigate every report and examine all the evidence at our disposal.

2. When a parcel of land in violation of the Community Standards on land ownership, the owner is issued a CS warning or suspension and the land is released to the public and the owner receives a refund as though they had released it themselves. They might not notice it in their account summary, but it's automatically issued.

3. CS violations are like traffic tickets -- arguing that you had a good reason to be speeding or running red lights isn't going to make much of a difference. On the flip side, getting tagged once or twice doesn't really mean that you're a bad person.

Finally, while v1.1 adds some very powerful tools for controlling access to your land, the CS on Land Ownership is still very much in place and will to actively enforced:

"Owning land gives you a set of inherent property rights. Being a land owner lets you maintain and shelter your own little corner of the world. Among the land uses that are explicitly banned are:

-using land strips to restrict access to sections of the world.

-claiming land that purposefully limits another residents access.

-using land ownership as a method of restricting another residents Second Life freedoms.

-claiming small land plots over wide areas (thus preventing larger plots from being purchased)."

Now, didn't 1.1 introduce the fact that even while banned from land, people at 40m? I think it is up in the air are not affected by the ban, to entirely eliminate the first 3 points?

While I agree the 3rd could still have some valid uses, it's a very very broad rule so i'm not sure what you apply it to.

The first two, however, seem to me they should no longer be an issue given the current state of land 'banning', as long as the bans are using the coded-in methods of access restriction, which cannot impede a person's navigation and/or access to surrounding land, provided they remain the appropriate distance above the land they are banned from. I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got on the entire reasoning of these changes. This is the question I have about the current validity of these rules. As #1 and #2 should no longer be possible without #4.

Also, I thought it was determined long ago in Hawthorne that #1 is perfectly legal, as long as it does not infringe upon access to access of the owner's own land (hence the 40m above applying once again). This was certainly the impression I got from discussions at that time?

Hopefully you get your land issues sorted out Soren. I also hope the Lindens take the complaints off your record AND apologize for nagging u. People like you who give your time to make SL a better place shouldn't be forced to endure this kind of headache.

In that virtually all of the land was owned by Soren before Angel Leviathan moved to Mocha, and no bannishers were used against any other residents either before or after the implementation of 1.1, and none of the land was in a checkerboard layout, but rather in one contiguous parcel - albeit because of the robust alpine terrain of that side of Mocha, some of it was a little narrow in areas of utility - still Soren was either utilizing all of that land or had plans to use it as he had the money. There were only one or two persons ever affected by the ban, and as they had full and total access to their property from the north, east and south, they were in no way greatly inconvenienced.

The land rules need to be re-evaluated. As Si says, many of it doesn't apply when using the build in Ban tools.

I can see the situation that completely surounding land and banning someone could be an issue still, as that is pretty unreasonable.

However the rules were made before bannign becamse a system ability and don't take into account the system restrictions on that system already. Adding a feature and punishing people for using it is entrapment, and just really not right.

Please re-evaluate the land policies and adjust them for the changes made to the system.

If this is true..



.. all the evidence wasn't gathered and Soren deserves an apology.

Note to Daniel Linden and any other Linden this applies to:

Since there is a certain person here who runs around the world acting like a school yard bully expecting people to bow down or be subject to ongoing trouble, I am going to refference this issue based on this person's CHILD like behaviour level.


If you are a perent and your child keeps acting up, being a brat, beating up your other children, giving them black eyes etc...What do you do to that child?

You do not slap their hand and just tell them to play nice!! Not happenin, as soon as you turn your back they do it again, this time probably worse cus they know someone ratted them out.

INSTEAD!!! You send them to their room, smack their Butt leaving an impreesion, take a favorite belonging away (SL), or whatever short term punishment you believe in.

THEN, you watch them much closer, and/or send them to a child psycologist or something for their anger management. But this section doesn't apply to us now does it?

So for repeat trouble that ONE person seems to always be the center of it all EVERYTIME, you give suspensions or temp Bans, (A FEW DAYS DON'T WORK) in this case.

Yes I understand this person is a paying customer, BUT SO ARE WE!!!!!

I don't know about anyone else, but I have an idea that could have the potential to bring in hundreds of people to SL, But with this garbage and lack of control over the consistant offender, I will abstain from reffering ANYONE here period!

Please take note at you OTHER paying customer's concerns and deal with this person appropriatly, all that can happen from inaction is you lose out on creative minds.

EDIT: I held this back as long as I could, but as it wears on me with this blinds eye approach to this it really gets under my skin.

Hmm... Can we ban Lindens from our land? Bwa Ha Ha...

No, and worse, you can't mute them either - if you don't like the announcements - but you can get a scripted landmine that will kill them in Jessie.