Understanding the difference between an alt and a user name
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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05-17-2005 09:01
From: Cristiano Midnight Aimee,
The emails contain the avatar name that sent the picture to the site as part of the email. No IP addresses are used, or necessary. If the picture says Aimee Weber on the site, it came from you. That's what I said. If you wanted the IP address of an e-mail sender....you would have to go back to Linden Labs...say "I got this e-mail, give me the IP address of the user that sent it" But of course this is silly because if you had that level of cooperation from Linden Labs, you pretty much can get any info you want anyways.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-17-2005 09:03
From: Aimee Weber That's what I said. Right, but what i meant is I would have no need to ask LL for anything - the email already contains the authenticated avatar name.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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daz Groshomme
Artist *nuff said*
Join date: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 711
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05-17-2005 09:03
*feels like Cindy Brady watching Greg and Peter fight*
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daz is the SL pet of Sukkubus Phaeton daz is the RL friend of Sukkubus Phaeton Sukkubus Phaeton, RL, is the official super-model for the artist SLy and RLy known as daz! daz is missing the SL action because he needs a G5 badly
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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05-17-2005 09:04
From: someone The mail server used to send the pictures is Linden Lab's mail server - if you are so paranoid about this, send yourself a snapshot and look at the headers - you see the exact origin and all data it contains. I know that is more complex than just putting out your theories, but at least then you would be informed. That's all I needed to know, Chris, thank you. If you do not have a means of grabbing IP numbers from anonymous Snapzilla uploads, that's good to know. You didn't say Linden Lab's mail server, so I persisted in questioning. Consumers questions producers, it's normal Chris, it's fine. No need to be defensive. So you are saying then: Linden Labs' game Second Life is an anonymizer that can be used by players of Second Life to send contributions to various websites around the world without any traceable fingerprints. Great! But could that become a haven for terrorism in some future world when the metaverse is bigger? Or, conversely, could the Great Anonymizer in fact turn out to be the Great Blackmailer or the Great Account-Canceler when LL changes its mind about ignoring this? Does Second Life have ways -- if it wants -- to track what people send out of the game to third-party sites? This isn't a personal discussion about you and your website, Chris. Try not to be defensive about that. Instead, it is a generic discussion about these games and their related websites and how they might be misused.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-17-2005 09:06
From: Jennifer Reitveld I think Aimee raises an interesting point.
I for one, as a single girl, go to great lengths to mask my presence on the internet. Particularly in games. I don;t know if you have ever been stalked. I have, and I hated it. I love my games, I love the escape and the fun. Sometimes I even appreciate the catharisis in being a "buck ass amazon bitch of a fighter, killing stuff left and right."
But really, I'm not. I'm just a girl. And for me, walking across a mall parking lot at night alone can, not unreasonably, cause me some nervous fear. Thus I want my inofrmation protected. I know that it is not easy to translate IP to RL address, I do. But I feel a hell of a lot safer if I know people aren't tracking me.
Many gamers are not the most socially adept people, and while many are kind, intelligent and giving. There are some who take things too far. Particulalry if you are using online as an outlet for sexual explorations. I know that sort of brings things on me, so I take precautions. So in this sense, I agree with Prokofy. I am not suggestion that Cris does anything wrong, or is a bad person, I am simply saying it means something to have repsect for my provacy stated in his policy. The same is true of any business online. I want to be reassured you aren't doing things to track me down. Ultimately it may be meaningless, but it will make my proverbial walk through the dark parking lot easier. Jennifer, I agree with you 100% actually. There is no problem with questioning what is done with your information. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is what Prokofy did and repeatedly does, not just in my case, but in many cases. In my particular case, he made a clear statement that I used his IP address to find out his RL information and to track him on the internet. Once Blaze raised the question of alts, then Prokofy jumped in saying I was also using it to out alts. All of that is patently false. It is one thing to question, it is quite another to accuse someone of something and present that as having occured.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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05-17-2005 09:06
From: someone But of course this is silly because if you had that level of cooperation from Linden Labs, you pretty much can get any info you want anyways. Good question, Aimee. Do you have that level of cooperation? You, a beta tester and respected player by LL and the community, let's say, have that kind of cooperation to get that kind of information, in the way that town fathers often get cooperation from sheriffs in RL?
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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05-17-2005 09:08
From: Prokofy Neva Good question, Aimee.
Do you have that level of cooperation?
You, a beta tester and respected player by LL and the community, let's say, have that kind of cooperation to get that kind of information, in the way that town fathers often get cooperation from sheriffs in RL? See, this is a great way to skirt the TOS. Making public accusations that are ridiculous, but ending them with a question mark. Let me try. Prok, are you a douchebag?
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-17-2005 09:11
From: Prokofy Neva That's all I needed to know, Chris, thank you. If you do not have a means of grabbing IP numbers from anonymous Snapzilla uploads, that's good to know.
You didn't say Linden Lab's mail server, so I persisted in questioning.
Consumers questions producers, it's normal Chris, it's fine. No need to be defensive.
So you are saying then: Linden Labs' game Second Life is an anonymizer that can be used by players of Second Life to send contributions to various websites around the world without any traceable fingerprints. Great!
But could that become a haven for terrorism in some future world when the metaverse is bigger? Or, conversely, could the Great Anonymizer in fact turn out to be the Great Blackmailer or the Great Account-Canceler when LL changes its mind about ignoring this?
Does Second Life have ways -- if it wants -- to track what people send out of the game to third-party sites?
This isn't a personal discussion about you and your website, Chris. Try not to be defensive about that. Instead, it is a generic discussion about these games and their related websites and how they might be misused. Prokofy, I have never been defensive about any of this except the statements you made about my site. If you had simply asked, instead of accused, I would gladly have told you and this could have remained civil. As far as does Linden Lab have the ability to track what is sent out of and into their system? Yes, they most certainly do. Their mail servers keep logs, their RPC servers are monitored for abuse, their email servers are monitored. There are technical, customer service and legal reasons for doing so, for any company. What you send out of SL is not anonymous, at some stage, it is associated with your account. You mentioned SL being an anonymizer - your avatar name or key is included with the communication out of SL, so it is not anonymous - it could be traced back to your SL account, which could then be traced back to you personally through a legal process.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-17-2005 09:12
From: Prokofy Neva Good question, Aimee.
Do you have that level of cooperation?
You, a beta tester and respected player by LL and the community, let's say, have that kind of cooperation to get that kind of information, in the way that town fathers often get cooperation from sheriffs in RL? Prokofy, No I do not have that relationship with them. I would have to pursue normal legal channels and file a John/Jane Doe complaint to get the information subpoenaed from Linden Lab - any third party site would have to do the same.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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05-17-2005 09:12
Oh yeah Prok. LL just throws their privacy policy right out the window whenever a beta player asks for information. Why just yesterday Philip gave me your home address just because I asked for it 
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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05-17-2005 09:13
Prokofy, just once, I think it might be good for your mental sanity to stop the baseless accusations and issue a person the apology and retraction of statement that your insane paranoia and blathering cause. Cristiano deserves one for the pages of bullshit you uttered minutes ago.
Cris, since you won't get one from him, I'll say I'm sorry you have to deal with this person... and you're more patient than me.
-Flip
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Robin Linden
Linden Lifer
Join date: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 1,224
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05-17-2005 09:22
Thread locked. The forums are for constructive discussion of SL, not innuendo and speculation about other residents.
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