Understanding the difference between an alt and a user name

Since there seems to be a little confusion over this matter (well just by one person, but it keeps getting repeated to whomever will listen), I thought I would kindly educate on the difference between a secondary (alt) SL account and a registration on a third party site (user name).

As you know, we can have five SL accounts attached to the same credit card (those who existed before this rule were grandfathered in, so there are some people who have a staggering number of alts). There is no indicator at all that these accounts are related, other than the owners inability to hide their distinctive personality from others, which often causes speculation of who an alt is.

When you register on a third party site, such as for the SLuniverse forums, or SLExchange, or SLBoutique, Gaming Open Market, etc.., you generally register with your email address and pick a display or user name. In the case of SLuniverse, you sign in with your email address, but your email address is never displayed - you pick a display user name to show in the forums. Several other sites operate the same way. Actually, nearly every site on the internet that has registration operates this way. (Some use email only, most use email/user name).

When you register for the site, there is nothing indicating at all what your SL account is. You certainly can make your user name Cristiano Midnight or Aimee Weber, or p0rnstar2 or hellokitty1974. Some third party sites don't allow spaces in their user names - SLuniverse does so people do often use their avatar names, but probably more than half the user accounts on SLuniverse don't follow that pattern. There is no connection to your avatar at all.

SLuniverse has no need for user keys since the site is not performing financial transactions or sending items/IMs into Second Life, so no link at all needs to be made with your avatar (except for using the upcoming registered features of Snapzilla, which needs to link your avatar name to your SLU account to be able to allow you to edit your own pictures, but no registration is needed at all to send in pictures to the site). Other sites do need to associate your key with your user name, and thus your avatar - SLExchange, SLBoutique, GOM, and SecondServer all do this because they conduct financial transactions. This is the reason you often need to go to a terminal to link your avatar to your account when you first sign up.

Now again, for SLUniverse, since there is no ccnnection between user name and avatar name unless the user chooses so (by making their user name their avatar name), someone who wants to maintain the privacy of an alt account can do so simply by posting there with a username that gives no indication who they are (like superfreak2005). Unless they specifically say "I am this account name!", there is no correlation at all between a user name and an account.

So for the uninitiated, you are in control of your own privacy on any third party site by understanding this. If you have any fears of an alt account being associated with your primary account, it seems the wisest course is to not register a user name with the alt account you are trying so badly to hide. Don't shop with it on web store sites, buy currency with it, or post messages with it.

SLuniverse has a strong privacy policy and reputation as do the other sites mentioned, so even if you do this, your information is completely private. However, it is good advice for unknown sites that pop up in the future, and for the paranoid. Your privacy is in your own control. If you create a user account and then sign a post with your avatar name, you have in effect outted yourself.

So is Aimee Weber available? If not I want Superfreak2005, because its the same thing basically.

I believe she is taken, and also has both names.

Feels nice to be wanted though.

I can't wait to see what you're going to do with the new features, matey! Sounds great by me. I much prefer using user names on external sites to avatar names for log ins. It allows people with alts to link multiple avatars to a single user name account, for example. Several business partners / groups have linked all their avatars to a single account on SLBoutique, and then let the "marketer / salesperson" or the group take care of entering the descriptions and photos, while the "creators / designers" in the group simply just drop new items and have them waiting for the rest of the team.

Its fun when you give people tools and they do things you never expected with them!

-Flip

This entire thread could be deemed an "off-topic" thread, or, in fact, an effort to revive two-three closed threads. I'm not sure why you get to revive closed threads and I don't LOL. But since you seem to like having the spotlight and the last word, I'm here to challenge you. That's my right.



Let me explain the problem with all this, Cristiano, since you raised it yourself.

1. Third-party sites that publish notecarded conversations from this game on their site don't technically violate the LL TOS. That is, Linden Labs does not extend its reach to third-party sites (unlike Stratics, for excample) in disciplining players for what they do.

Yet it's that "escape valve" of a third-party site that enables people to do WTF they want outside the game and the forums here, outside the law.

If you can't take a notecarded convo and post it here without being warned and even banned, no worries, just take it over to Sluniverse.com and post it there. That's how it works. I didn't realize that at first, being new. I assumed that either it was also actionable by LL if you did that even outside the game (like Stratics used to do by banning even references to third-party sites it didn't like which violated its TOS) -- OR -- I assumed it just wasn't "good cricket" to go outside the game and do what you're not allowed to do inside it, or inside its forums.

Third-party sites, however, publish notecarded convos with abandon. That's their bread-and-butter. LL can't do a thing about it. It's outside their purview.

Still even being aware of that, I can view this practice as rather unsavory and not only not "good cricket," but often pernicious. For example, if someone prints slander and personal information about me on a third-party site and a site owner lets it stand, he is contributing to the omgoing abuse of me inside the game by enabling people to keep fetching slander and RL information, and keep recycling it into the game and these forums to harass me with.

2. When you send a photo to Snapzilla, like all websites, the website of sluniverse.com grabs the IP number of the person sending the photo. It has that number and then can use or misuse it at will. The first thing it can do is COMPARE and CONTRAST. Example: an unregistered, unknown, anonymous person sends in, oh, I dunno, a picture of themselves cavorting naked as a female alt in a hot tub. IP number duly noted. Privacy "protected" because avatar is not named from his game name, and even his SLuniverse.com handle is not named because he didn't create one.

3. Next step -- let's say that same male registers at Sluniverse.com He decides to use his in game name, BlowmeChris Bommerang. His game avatar and his handle on Sluniverse.com are the same because he hasn't realized perhaps he need not do that. He posts something about, oh, how terrible it is when people go in drag on alts or something.

4. Next step -- the site owner can note that the player named BlowmeChris Bommerang's IP number -- which he has grabbed *is the same IP number as that anonymous drag queen in the hot tub*. He keeps all IP numbers in a data bank not only because he can, but because he believes he has several legitimate uses for them -- the law, the prevention of griefing, etc. So he now can "out" BlowmeChris' female alt DoMe Bommerang in the hot tub as being the same avatar, with all privacy "respected" an no name ever having changed hands from the Snapzilla upload.

Will he do that? Well, maybe not. But then, maybe he will. If he happens to hate what BlowMe posts on the forums, he might be motivated. If he happens to be a serious business rival, he might do that. What protection do we have from him doing that? None. We have only his word -- and he hasn't given word one about that potential.

We'd like to hope that he won't do things like pocket the valuable info that Blowme and Dome are the same people...but given how nasty things get on the forums...can he be trusted not to do that?

At least one forum regular says he posts on sluniverse.com with a handle, not an alt, and now he could be concerned...are his speech patterns being studied? Are his Snapzilla uploads being studied in order to link his avatars across the board?

5. Further step -- BlowmeChris Bommerang decides he wants to post something critical on Sluniverse.com -- he makes yet another anonymous handle unrelated to his game avatar or his female alt -- let's call this new handle Blowyou Outofwater. Perhaps BlowmeChris made Blowyou based on his hunch that his female alt DoMe and her picture in the hot tub are now irrevocably linked through the IP number that logged in to upload DoMe's picture and the IP number used when Blowme's alt registered,

In fact, now the website manager can now handily link all three entities using their IP number -- BlowmeChris, DoMe, and Blowyou, are all the same person on the same IP number. And suspecting trouble, he can ban them and all their future generations unto the nth generation merely by keeping that IP number in his dbase to activate a ban on.

Of course, there's always a chance that Blowyou's neighbour in the building down the street has the same IP number, so this is tricky, but Blowyou's neighbour is unlikely to play SL. There's always the chance that BlowmeChris' wife, poor dear, unaware of her hubbie's clandestine activities, has her own SL account named Twinkle Tokugawa and a handle for Sluniverse.com called Hewwowuvme Inanity. In that case, she's out of luck because the next time Twinkle Tokugawa attempts to upload a picture of her new store opening with her shiny bling, the webmaster will have shut her out of his site because of her husband's criticism. Her potential SLUniverse.com handle Hewwowuvme Inanity will also be shut out because of the banning of her hubbie's IP.

So that's how it works -- track, analyze, compare, contrast. Handily prevent people from posting criticism if they do it as an alt to their existing account. Handile prevent people from uploading "anonymous" if they are banned as their registered IP number. Handily cut off their relatives' and neighbours' access to that site as well (something not likely ever to be noticed given that so few play SL.)

Do third party sites harvest IP numbers for the purpose of comparing and contrasting alts? Of course they do. And they justify it as "anti-griefing". Do they have an overbroad notion of "griefing" that might include legitimate criticism of them and their policies. Of course they do. Do they also take IP addresses and track you to your home. Well, that's hardly likely! But they sure can vector in on your if they want to! Using google searches and other techniques, they sure can -- if they are motivated to eliminate you.

One has to assume the worst there, since they've been willing to violate LL TOS with impunity by being outside of its reach, publishing notecarded in-game private chat containing falsehoods and RL info. They've been willing to shut their site out to anyone who they think might be "critical" even when they have no actual posts or pattern of posts within their site to prove that.

What it comes down to is a matter of public trust. You cannot trust a third-party site that serves as an escape valve to violate LL TOS with impunity by publishing in-game private chat. And you cannot trust a site that has the potential to harvest and compare all your uploads, alts, and registered identities through the tracking of your IP number. It's just common sense!

I read this part!

*notices the names used for examples*

I don't think this is true. Second Life sends that photo, so if there is a "IP number" to capture, it will be the Second Life server, not the user sending the photo. Am I right on this Cris??

*noticed and reported*! Thanks Zsu!

That's as far as I got...

You log into SL with your IP number showing like your slip.

You send your photo from SL on the same connection you logged into SL with. Seems reasonable to anticipate that the IP number will display.

If it is only SL's number, so that SL serves as a kind of anonymizer, that's good. That would be a better system. But I'll bet that's not the case.

Prokofy,

This is a different topic - nothing to do with IP addresses, though you brought them up. I will point out the sheer folly in your logic.

When a picture is submitted to Snapzilla, it does not come from the user's computer - it comes from SL's mail server. I have no access to the IP address of the users sending in pictures, as the IP address is SL's mail server. Conspiracy theory thwarted, sorry, try again. You will have to bang on another drum.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for pointing out my ethnicity in said chat log. This is not about machismo, or all the other stereotypes you raised about Hispanic males. It is about not letting you malign my site, or anyone else's on your latest tirade.

Have a wonderful day.

Correct, SL has your IP address but SLUniverse wont.


I don't think it IS the case. The e-mail sent to SLUniverse comes from SL's servers so unless Linden Labs embeds your IP address in the body of the e-mail there really will be no sign of your IP. You can test this... Send a photo to yourself and then examine the message for your IP address.

That is correct, Aimee, no IP address in the email, other than the mail server used to send the pictures. That is too boring of a theory though.

Prok I am going to do my best to say this clearly and in the spirit of Light, not heat.

I am in possession of a web link that has a real world news article which apparently is about a very famous SL AV, and it deals with some very serious negative behavior, having very serious RL consequenses. I honestly do not know if it is factual, but my guts tell me it is...

Have I made it public?

No.

Have I done anything with it to violate the Linden Lab TOS?

No.

Would tons of SL people have a field day with this information?

Yes.

Just because someone can do something hurtful/revengeful, does not mean they will.

Focus more on people's truth, honesty, and trustworthiness and you will gain depth, joy and respect.

I know, I've learned that lesson in RL the hard way.

Prok - I sincerely wish you all the best, as I know one day you will gain insights regarding your experiences here on the Forums - and you will be a better person for it.

But the mail server used to send the pictures, let's say it is on yahoo.com, is an identifiable piece of information. It may not be enough to link up an anonymous picture-sender, a player in the game, or a RL person. It can be used as a marker to compare and contrast other uploads and log-ins -- you can see that the person posting with the SL avatar name, the person posting with the anonymou handle, and the person sending the photo are all the same person with that same bit of captured info, the "mail server used to send the pictures."

That's how it is done, through extrapolation and comparing and contrasting.

I think Aimee raises an interesting point.

I for one, as a single girl, go to great lengths to mask my presence on the internet. Particularly in games. I don;t know if you have ever been stalked. I have, and I hated it. I love my games, I love the escape and the fun. Sometimes I even appreciate the catharisis in being a "buck ass amazon bitch of a fighter, killing stuff left and right."

But really, I'm not. I'm just a girl. And for me, walking across a mall parking lot at night alone can, not unreasonably, cause me some nervous fear. Thus I want my inofrmation protected. I know that it is not easy to translate IP to RL address, I do. But I feel a hell of a lot safer if I know people aren't tracking me.

Many gamers are not the most socially adept people, and while many are kind, intelligent and giving. There are some who take things too far. Particulalry if you are using online as an outlet for sexual explorations. I know that sort of brings things on me, so I take precautions. So in this sense, I agree with Prokofy. I am not suggestion that Cris does anything wrong, or is a bad person, I am simply saying it means something to have repsect for my provacy stated in his policy. The same is true of any business online. I want to be reassured you aren't doing things to track me down. Ultimately it may be meaningless, but it will make my proverbial walk through the dark parking lot easier.

You can see the same, ULTRA SECRET ip addresses of Linden Lab by hitting ALT-3. Hey, Prok, how about checking your facts before you launch into your next multi-page, non-factual, non-sensical diatribe? Please?

At least the rest of us jackasses on the forums try to have a laugh from time to time.

-Flip

OK actually, what you are saying is partially true. Here is what could happen:

1. You send a pic to SLUniverse.
2. Cris gets the-email, and traces the sender it back to Second Life's mail server
3. Cris asks for the cooperation of SecondLife's staff to match up his e-mail information with the IP Addresses LL has on record.

So what you are saying can be done, but it needs the cooperation of Linden Labs. But if you have THAT, you have all the information you need ANYWAYS.

There is no truth in this statement at all. My god, Prokofy, I know you have a pathological need not to be wrong, but on this you are just fundamentally wrong. There is no market that can be used to compare. The mail server used to send the pictures is Linden Lab's mail server - if you are so paranoid about this, send yourself a snapshot and look at the headers - you see the exact origin and all data it contains. I know that is more complex than just putting out your theories, but at least then you would be informed.

Prok I am going to do my best to say this clearly and in the spirit of Light, not heat.



If your insinuation is that this person is me, and that I have done some kind of very serious negative behavior in RL such as to have warranted some kind of serious real world news article, that insinuation would be false. I've never done any RL or for that matter SL activity that constitutes any kind of "serious negative behaviour".

If you are talking about someone else, I take your point. But hiding behind your "niceness" here isn't a public service.



Well, in my view, you should make it public. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I know that if I thought you had a thing like that about me, I'd want you to publish it so I could try to fathom what on earth you are talking about such that you'd engage in a form of back-handed "no fingerprints" slander like that.

If you are talking about another person, you'd need to publish it in the interests of the community. No one wants in the game anyone involved in any serious negative behaviour in RL.



But how did you link up the real-life news article, Merwan? to the SL avatar? That would be a TOS violation if you publicized that. But I think it would be instructive for you to inform at least the person in question that you did that. I would call it blackmail though, of the velvet-glove kind.

It implies that you and other "SL leaders" fashion themselves as gatekeepers and guardians and "take care of their own". But in doing so, you may become overzealous.




If this is some kind of article you've dredged up about me, I'd urge you to publish it. I wouldn't care in the slightest. Like I said, blackmail doesn't work on me, and sunlight is the best disinfectant. Many people already had a field day over me using all the RL information that Nolan gleaned and published and purveyed in public and private, and multipled numerous times over.



Um, would publishing what might turn out to be an utterly false newspaper article or tabloidy thing be revengeful? Well, it might be a good exercise because you could then determine if it is true. I can't think of any better way.



But people aren't truthful and honest here, Merwan, you of *all* people should know that. And like I said, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I know, I've learned that lesson in RL the hard way.



Like the slam against my architect who you "advised" might never get another job in this town if he didn't diversify his commissions away from me, this post is taken for what it is -- an effort to spread in this community the malicious slander that a RL newspaper article about me ostensibly deals with some kind of "very serious negative behavior".

There is no such thing, not even in tabloid form, not even in the lurid KGB-controlled Russian-language press LOL. So get a grip.

Aimee,

The emails contain the avatar name that sent the picture to the site as part of the email. No IP addresses are used, or necessary. If the picture says Aimee Weber on the site, it came from you.

Prok, I don't understand why you insist on delving into these technical matters. It would be bad enough if you were simply misinforming other people about technical details. But in addition you are using your incorrect understanding to accuse people of unethical behaviour which is not even technically possible.

As has been explained, every image will be coming from the same IP address, that of LL's mail server. There will be nothing to compare or contrast because they will all be the same number.

It's wrong to make accusations based on such a limited understanding.