Land Scanner - attack of the owner

Ok.. In the sim that I live in, a land scanner was found - over my land. My first action is of course to neg rate the behavior and the building on the scanner owner (*edited out personal information* ). Well, I log in yesterday and find that not only did the scanner owner TRIPLE NEG rate me, but he had his boyfriend (*edited out personal information*) Triple neg rate me as well.

So thats 6 negs to my 2; and this is coming from the person who was using a land scanner over my land.

I honestly dont care about negs, and anyone who knows me can attest to that. But what I find most upsetting is that this person who was wrong from the start for having a land scanner over my land, finds justification to triple neg rate me and have his frien neg me as well. Of course his "friend" looks more like an alt but hey. I did return the favor plus some.

What sticks out to me is the fact that they were using the scanner and act as if nothing they did was improper. And when they get sanctioned for it, they retaliate with a group negging.

How can people so wrong act so right....

Briana Dawson

Sucks.

Happened to me too, and even when I was told by a linden that the events were against TOS. Submitting an abuse report, with FULL details to the minute and chatlogs no action was taken

So just forget about it ^_^

I have foun that it's better to just delete offending objects on my land rather than to neg their owners.

It's not like are going to get my negative rating notice and have an epiphony or anything. "My God... I did deserve that negative post... I shall stop what I am doing."

It's not worth the hassle -- you gave 2 negs, and got 6. Fair or not, you wouldn't have been neg-rated at all if you had just deleted the scanner.

Well here is the killer part... The made the scanner out of a giant 10x10x10 cube. So it crossed over my land and someone elses, so i couldnt delete it but yet it was phsyically over my land. If i could have deleted it and gone about my business i would have, but since i couldnt delete it thanks to sneaky placement, i negged.

Briana Dawson

It didnt really matter that the scanner owner triple negged me. I could care less about that. But the fact that he had his boyfriend triple neg me as well - now that is just hosed.

Briana Dawson

I found one on my land recently also, though I don't recall if it was made by the same person or not. At least they didn't make it tiny and invisible

Briana,

Anybody as moronically anti-social as to place such a device over your land is going to be the same when it comes to neg ratings.

Sometimes I feel nostalgic for Grimmy Moonflower.

I have nothing but contempt for morons like this. They are either minors or very low iq adults.

Sorry you have had this happen to you Briana. It seems that LL are so keen to ban people for doing things in the forums, but when it comes to genuine, in world griefers, they just turn a blind eye. It's really not good enough.

Latonia

Okay, I'll probably get flamed for this, but...

If this was the first offense of this person, then neg rating the offender seems harsh as a first action.

As a scriptor, I've thought about putting some scanners out to collect data. I'm not interested in buying land based on this information, I'm just curious.

Why was the reaction so strong. I don't want to upset people, so it would be helpful to understand the dynamics going on here.

Is the problem that someone simply had an object on your land?
Is the problem that you felt they were going to use the information from the scanner to gain unfair advantage in land acquisition?
Is the problem that they didn't ask permission?

I guess what I'm trying to understand is the current accepted standards of conduct with regard to scripted devices that move around autonomously.

To answer your questions.
Yes
Yes
Yes
This person is using up resources in your sim that you purchased land in. They placed it knowingly on your land without permission thereby using YOUR resources. Not cool at all.

Don't make them.

That's pretty much it.

Wrong idea to have.

The world needs more scripted automated stuff, as long as they're benign, prone to correcting any errors in their path (blocked movement, etc.), and aren't going to bog down the server.

LF

or have I seen some small white birds that fly thorugh a sim on a semi-regular basis. I have seen this same phenomena now in Rodeo and in Vari.

I think these are cool. Anyone else seen this?

I saw them in Stillman yesterday... I caught one and I believe it was by Nick Fairlight (?)

I liked them.

Unfortunatly, since there is absolutely no way to prove any of those things, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

I think there are exceptions... like blimps and 737s

In that case, you might as well strip out llEmail and XML too... and llSensor. After all, you have no idea and no proof that the innocent-looking scanner on your neighbor's land isn't secretly monitoring all of your conversations and your login/logoff times. So we gotta err on the side of caution there....

And get rid of the ability to sit on prims, because it's a gross security risk to let people float through your private walls on them...

And so on..

Save the CHILDREN! WONT WE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!



LF

well it sucks that you got 6 negative ratings for a justifiable rating. But for a little perspective, you could probable fly into a party. rate 3 people, and get 9 positive ratings in return. Considering how negative ratings do no effect your stiffen, dose it really matter that much? Will 6 negative really be a huge blemish next your hundreds of positive ratings. Witch i'm sure you have, you seem like a nice guy. Why not wear those little blemishes with pride.

Maybe it's just me but I've found the choice of words use for a negative rating. Can make a huge difference at how people react toward being rated. There will always be some one who's going to act immature, and rate back. I can only guess that they don't relies that people can reverse a negative rating at any time. But who's going to reverse a negative rating after they triple negative rate back.

Reductio Ad Absurdum.

As much as I may worry about what a neighbor is doing on his own land, it is his own land. Unless I have reason to suspect he is doing something wrong, I assume what he is doing is legit.

Roving scripted objects, or in fact any scripted object that I find on my land without my for-knowledge, I view with much greater suspision. Why is this thing on my land? Why did the creator not ask me if it was ok to be put on my land? Etc. Etc.

Add in the fact that to date the most prominent examples of scripted items on others land have all been those of a negative sort, primarily land scanners, it is an unfortunate fact that the actions of a few have sort tainted the prospect.

To answer the original question:

I think it comes down to respect. If you wish to extend your project, simply ask the landowner. If they say no, they don't wish that there, respect that.

In the past though I've had network routers, scanners, all kinds of junk squirreled away on my property because the person thought if they asked, I might say no....

Whereas I MAY have said yes before, their stuff is summarily deleted now.

I don't care how benign, how life changing, or how great a persons project is - they have to ask. Not to ask is showing a lack of respect for my property - and thus to me.
I personally think it speaks volumes about the character of the person.

The same goes for autonimous objects - one persons cool is another persons crap.

And some people dont' want crap cluttering up thier personal space - irrespective of how cool/beneficial the creator may think it is.

Siggy.

Exactly. Some of those can be really cool and beneficial, like Cubey's free air tours.

Morals are thinking out the results of your actions, knowing if those results are right or wrong, and acting rightly on that knowledge whether or not it's inconvenient or irritating to you. Sadly, most people aren't very moral as I've defined it. Me included occasionally . Now lets go through the issues of landscanners step by step:

1) Q: Do they create lag. A: The ones I've seen do but depending on the designer, varrying amounts. Some scan at regular intervals hard and that will cause a noticeable hitch lasting up to a few minutes. Some scan hard continously and can be shown to drop a sim 100+ fps. Some which are responsibly built scan lightly continously and do little to no damage. You will not be able to prove a scanner is lagging a sim without the scanner owners permission and access to the code for testing. Which since the code isn't that spectacular, rather makes you suspicious as to why they wouldn't open source it.

2) Q: Do they have a right to place them. A: if they place them on their own land, even a 4x4 square piece, then yes, they have every right. It's just not possible to stop them without giving up a piece of your own freedom to build whatever you want on your own property. I do think that prims or buildings who's root is not on your land, but with a part of the object extending over your land, should be deletable by the person who's land it's extended over. That is only my opinion however.

3) Q: is the act of land scanning immoral. A: I undestand that at one point there was a bug, or bugs that allowed a land to be accidentally released and have no owner. I have never seen this, but if it were true then taking advantage of that bug would be immoral. If the only way to release land is by doing it purposefully and involving confirmation, then no it wouldn't be immoral, it would simply be taking advantage of technology anyone could use, to beat the competition. The lindens will have to tell you if the bug exists, or possibly someone with a verifiable report of it happening.

4) Q: What can you do about a land scanner you consider immoral. A: morality isn't trully enforceable, though it is possible to add incentive in the form of possible reprisals. Laws are an attempt to prevent people from acting immorally when their conscience fails to make them act morally. Do you want more and more specific laws in sl? technically the TOS is a set of laws but they are not very strictly enforced and do not cover land scanners. even if you do favor more rules and regulations can you convince a majority and by extension the lindens that it's in their best interest? My personal suggestion is to try to offer a better solution to said land scanning people. design a more efficient non-lagging scanner. a scanner that can scan an entire sim in 3 minutes average without causing lag is possible. I personally would be willing to build, demonstrate, test, and open source such a scanner to anyone who wants one, or wants to understand more about them.

I'm no expert in morality certainly but I am very much in favor of logic . If you have a problem with land scanners in script and lag terms learn more about them before pointing fingers. Be ready and open to being wrong. Think about how much you are willing to sacrifice yourself in order to remedy the problem as you see it. anything activily scripted takes up sim fps. Will you give up your vehicle/particle fountain/automated mapper/automated vehicle/swiss army vendor/high speed rezzing gun? Are you morally capable of making that sacrifice for others on your own convictions. are you willing and able to take the time and learn enough to present your case convincingly?

This is not an argument for or against land scanners, and if you see an opinion represented here I appologize. my goal is to encourage constructive critics and critisism rather than simple outspokenness. I'm sticking my head up just begging to have people take shots at me so fire away people .

Is it just me or do these folks go out of their way to be asswipes?

You should know about asswipes diaper man! So I will say YES!

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Feature suggestion: soundproofable land.