Second Life Forums Archive - Cool things done by player zoning

David Cartier

Registered User

Join date: 8 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,018

01-26-2005 19:40

From: Ulrika Zugzwang

Great pictures of both cities, blaze. You left our our modern suspension bridge though.

I spoke with David Cartier of DarkWood the weekend of our first election (two weeks ago) and he said that they converted to a benevolent dictatorship due to infighting. I explained how we attempted to solve that problem with multiple branches of government but he was unswayed.

He is a brilliant builder (as you can see by his city) and has much experience with large group projects. I'll consider our project a success if he ever begrudgingly admits that things might be working.

Also, I should mention that while I do talk about the Nberg project a lot still, I am no longer in charge. The new Representative Assembly has taken over responsibility of the city.

~Ulrika~

I believe that what I said to you - it having been a while - was that I WISH that we could have a benevolent dictatorship in DarkWood, as Democracy had served us very poorly, in my opinion. That failure is, unfortunately, mainly due to certain landowners who never log in for months at a time, and then when they do make an appearance, object to every single tiny change since they have been gone. In actuality we have very little to no defacto government at all, and we manage to rub along, somehow.

David Cartier

Registered User

Join date: 8 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,018

01-26-2005 19:48

From: Soren Romulus

Obviously another Mis-quote..If DarkWood was a Dictatorship..There would be more order there..So...Luckily, we are nothing like Nberg..I would rather have a few hate me for trying to hold onto a Theme set not by me but by those who created it in the first place, then a lot of people hating me for my Ignorance.. Plus..never heard of a Dicator who has to pay for people to keep there sim..Plus the only thing David has built in DarkWood is a Forested hill as of late and that is only Linden Trees...The images that were shown were of The Rivendell Project, created by me on MY land, the town center, created by many of the folks there, Gardinya Floras Fortress, David Valentines' Outpost, Elror Gullwings' Eldamar and a host of other builds..

Soren Romulus (supposed Dictator of DarkWood and if so..WHERE IS MY THRONE?!?!??!)

Yes, unfortunately I was misquoted to a degree, and, yes, I get the hint, finally; the forest will go, and I will build something. I should not be attacked for trying to contribute to the setting, rather than the content, especially when I really don't have a lot of time to build anything of late.

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

01-26-2005 20:03

From: David Cartier

I believe that what I said to you - it having been a while - was that I WISH that we could have a benevolent dictatorship in DarkWood, as Democracy had served us very poorly, in my opinion. That failure is, unfortunately, mainly due to certain landowners who never log in for months at a time, and then when they do make an appearance, object to every single tiny change since they have been gone. In actuality we have very little to no defacto government at all, and we manage to rub along, somehow.

I apologize to you David and to all members of DarkWood, if I misrepresented you. It was my error. I have nothing but respect for all of you and wish you the best!

If there is any of our infrastructure you would like, such as the online vendor reporting tool or even our hybrid in-world web-based voting system, just let me know. It's yours.

And yes, Kendra Bancroft is a wicked builder.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

01-26-2005 20:37

Democracy is interesting, you usualy get what the majority wants (assuming they care). From what information that drifts my way i've been hearing that things have been going down hill. No hard feelings.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

01-26-2005 21:36

From: Strife Onizuka

Democracy is interesting, you usualy get what the majority wants (assuming they care). From what information that drifts my way i've been hearing that things have been going down hill. No hard feelings.

That's true. The primary shortcoming of democracy is that it is by definition majority rule. I was told once that democracy is like three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Systems which protect the minority are substantially more complicated than a simple democracy can provide.

As for the state of DarkWood, I have a feeling that they'll be around at least until the end of SL.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Hiro Pendragon

bye bye f0rums!

Join date: 22 Jan 2004

Posts: 5,905

01-26-2005 22:26

From: Ulrika Zugzwang

That's true. The primary shortcoming of democracy is that it is by definition majority rule. I was told once that democracy is like three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Systems which protect the minority are substantially more complicated than a simple democracy can provide.

As for the state of DarkWood, I have a feeling that they'll be around at least until the end of SL.

~Ulrika~

Ulrika - realize that "democracy" as we're used to it in Western civilization is really republics. Democracy means discussion and voting open to all citizens. Republics have elected representatives.

I'm a fan of benevolent aristocracies... over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things...

_____________________

Hiro Pendragon
------------------
http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio

Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

01-26-2005 22:56

From: Hiro Pendragon

Ulrika - realize that "democracy" as we're used to it in Western civilization is really republics. Democracy means discussion and voting open to all citizens. Republics have elected representatives.

That's true, although I feel it is a misconception that should be corrected. The word "democracy" is misused in our language, leading to the false belief that "democracy" is synonymous with "republic". Technically, they are not synonymous and democracy alone can be quite dangerous for those in the minority. Nonetheless, I agree with you. (It takes me awhile to say "I agree" sometimes.)

From: someone

I'm a fan of benevolent aristocracies... over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things...

I agree completely. In Nberg one of our governmental branches is a meritocracy, where people are elected based on their magical genius action.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Zuzi Martinez

goth dachshund

Join date: 4 Sep 2004

Posts: 1,860

01-26-2005 23:02

From: someone

over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things...

yes, in the gumdrop palace of the magical kingdom of the fairies in the country of dreams smack in the middle of the fucking land of make-believe.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

01-27-2005 11:00

Does anyone know any other zoned SIMs that are not Island SIMs?

I guess Cayman is an island sim?

Is NBerg and Darkwood the only two successful zoned sims?

I checked out Boardman and Gibsons, but I didn't think they were in the same league.

SeaCliff was cool, but it looked mostly like the effort of one person. Lusk was cool too, but had too many poor builds which didn't seem thematic.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Cool things done by player zoning
David Cartier Registered User Join date: 8 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,018	01-26-2005 19:40 From: Ulrika Zugzwang Great pictures of both cities, blaze. You left our our modern suspension bridge though. I spoke with David Cartier of DarkWood the weekend of our first election (two weeks ago) and he said that they converted to a benevolent dictatorship due to infighting. I explained how we attempted to solve that problem with multiple branches of government but he was unswayed. He is a brilliant builder (as you can see by his city) and has much experience with large group projects. I'll consider our project a success if he ever begrudgingly admits that things might be working. Also, I should mention that while I do talk about the Nberg project a lot still, I am no longer in charge. The new Representative Assembly has taken over responsibility of the city. ~Ulrika~ I believe that what I said to you - it having been a while - was that I WISH that we could have a benevolent dictatorship in DarkWood, as Democracy had served us very poorly, in my opinion. That failure is, unfortunately, mainly due to certain landowners who never log in for months at a time, and then when they do make an appearance, object to every single tiny change since they have been gone. In actuality we have very little to no defacto government at all, and we manage to rub along, somehow.
David Cartier Registered User Join date: 8 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,018	01-26-2005 19:48 From: Soren Romulus Obviously another Mis-quote..If DarkWood was a Dictatorship..There would be more order there..So...Luckily, we are nothing like Nberg..I would rather have a few hate me for trying to hold onto a Theme set not by me but by those who created it in the first place, then a lot of people hating me for my Ignorance.. Plus..never heard of a Dicator who has to pay for people to keep there sim..Plus the only thing David has built in DarkWood is a Forested hill as of late and that is only Linden Trees...The images that were shown were of The Rivendell Project, created by me on MY land, the town center, created by many of the folks there, Gardinya Floras Fortress, David Valentines' Outpost, Elror Gullwings' Eldamar and a host of other builds.. Soren Romulus (supposed Dictator of DarkWood and if so..WHERE IS MY THRONE?!?!??!) Yes, unfortunately I was misquoted to a degree, and, yes, I get the hint, finally; the forest will go, and I will build something. I should not be attacked for trying to contribute to the setting, rather than the content, especially when I really don't have a lot of time to build anything of late.
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	01-26-2005 20:03 From: David Cartier I believe that what I said to you - it having been a while - was that I WISH that we could have a benevolent dictatorship in DarkWood, as Democracy had served us very poorly, in my opinion. That failure is, unfortunately, mainly due to certain landowners who never log in for months at a time, and then when they do make an appearance, object to every single tiny change since they have been gone. In actuality we have very little to no defacto government at all, and we manage to rub along, somehow. I apologize to you David and to all members of DarkWood, if I misrepresented you. It was my error. I have nothing but respect for all of you and wish you the best! If there is any of our infrastructure you would like, such as the online vendor reporting tool or even our hybrid in-world web-based voting system, just let me know. It's yours. And yes, Kendra Bancroft is a wicked builder. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	01-26-2005 20:37 Democracy is interesting, you usualy get what the majority wants (assuming they care). From what information that drifts my way i've been hearing that things have been going down hill. No hard feelings. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	01-26-2005 21:36 From: Strife Onizuka Democracy is interesting, you usualy get what the majority wants (assuming they care). From what information that drifts my way i've been hearing that things have been going down hill. No hard feelings. That's true. The primary shortcoming of democracy is that it is by definition majority rule. I was told once that democracy is like three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Systems which protect the minority are substantially more complicated than a simple democracy can provide. As for the state of DarkWood, I have a feeling that they'll be around at least until the end of SL. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Hiro Pendragon bye bye f0rums! Join date: 22 Jan 2004 Posts: 5,905	01-26-2005 22:26 From: Ulrika Zugzwang That's true. The primary shortcoming of democracy is that it is by definition majority rule. I was told once that democracy is like three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Systems which protect the minority are substantially more complicated than a simple democracy can provide. As for the state of DarkWood, I have a feeling that they'll be around at least until the end of SL. ~Ulrika~ Ulrika - realize that "democracy" as we're used to it in Western civilization is really republics. Democracy means discussion and voting open to all citizens. Republics have elected representatives. I'm a fan of benevolent aristocracies... over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things... _____________________ Hiro Pendragon ------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	01-26-2005 22:56 From: Hiro Pendragon Ulrika - realize that "democracy" as we're used to it in Western civilization is really republics. Democracy means discussion and voting open to all citizens. Republics have elected representatives. That's true, although I feel it is a misconception that should be corrected. The word "democracy" is misused in our language, leading to the false belief that "democracy" is synonymous with "republic". Technically, they are not synonymous and democracy alone can be quite dangerous for those in the minority. Nonetheless, I agree with you. (It takes me awhile to say "I agree" sometimes.) From: someone I'm a fan of benevolent aristocracies... over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things... I agree completely. In Nberg one of our governmental branches is a meritocracy, where people are elected based on their magical genius action. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Zuzi Martinez goth dachshund Join date: 4 Sep 2004 Posts: 1,860	01-26-2005 23:02 From: someone over and over again we see that when intellectuals gather, they do so peacefully and create wonderful things... yes, in the gumdrop palace of the magical kingdom of the fairies in the country of dreams smack in the middle of the fucking land of make-believe.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	01-27-2005 11:00 Does anyone know any other zoned SIMs that are not Island SIMs? I guess Cayman is an island sim? Is NBerg and Darkwood the only two successful zoned sims? I checked out Boardman and Gibsons, but I didn't think they were in the same league. SeaCliff was cool, but it looked mostly like the effort of one person. Lusk was cool too, but had too many poor builds which didn't seem thematic. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

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Cool things done by player zoning