Steps in the right direction?

I've been around SL a very long time, and suprisingly, I'm strangely optimistic about the economic changes.

"Linden support of most events, other than educational events will be discontinued starting next week with events scheduled 17 January and after."

Not a bad idea at all for many reasons other than the "sink". For a very, very long time I've actually suggested this. IMHO, there are far too many people throwing far too many cookie cutter and unimaginative events simply because they are guaranteed money. Groups of people put on pointless events, make sure they get three of their friends to show, and they get paid. I've been to countless events that just devolved into chat or flame sessions, so just stopped going. I have also always considered it unfair that asking 50 Simpsons questions gets you the same money as somebody who builds an arena with a weapons system and holds carefully coordinated and planned contests. Yes, I know, not everybody is a scripter and a builder, but that does not mean you can't exercise your imagination to do something creative, or come up with ideas, employ people, and cut up the proceeds with them. If you're not a developer of software...well, become a developer of another kind.

I actually don't think they've gone far enough. Educational events should be cut too. I remember when I was giving advanced scripting classes in the InfoCenter in Nexus Prime; the building was mine, I paid for the land, developed the curriculum and supporting materials, the whole shebang. People who did take the classes said they were great. However, many, many people refused to take them when they found out they had to pay. "They should be free, and the Lindens will pay you" was the common response. Linden sponsorship of classes, which are generally not topic-specific or of sufficient depth for anybody other than a relative noob, completely submarined the effort. I eventually had to shut the curriculum down, as I became frustrated with the attendance and being called a greedy bastard. Instructors of Linden classes also do not have the authority to do what they need to do with a problematic student, which is to say, you couldn't tell them "you're gone" and kick them from the land. A number of my classes (I used to be one of the busiest instructors in SL) were ruined because I had to waste half the class "being nice".

A new resident should get three tokens of some kind, or some form of limited credit, to take a handful of introductory classes. After that, use your skills to generate some income, hit the websites, practice, and pay a hard working instructor that has built a reputation for excellence, or enter into some form of apprenticeship.

"Bonus amounts paid out as weekly 'Stipend Ratings' will be decreased over the next several months, beginning next week."

This system has always been far too easy to game. I do wonder though if anybody will actually be seriously affected by the change. I have seen people collect ratings as entry to events, or do "rating parties".

"We will begin charging L$25 for a rating - starting after the update tomorrow."

Perhaps this will bring some meaning to ratings. The abuse of them has been rampant since day one. People will be a hell of a lot less likely to rate you 3x neg because you locked your front door. It will also prevent somebody from just neg rating you back even if they absolutely deserved a behavior neg (like somebody who makes non stop farting noises at an event). In the past, a person of this nature...there are many...if they received a few negs, would just neg rate the whole room back. Now that will be very expensive. However I would still prefer to see ratings go altogether.

"The Top Picks will be replaced by “Sponsered Links” which will be auctioned off on Ebay. This is an experimental program to gauge community interest in advertising in an in-world directory. If successful, we'll bring it to the internal auctions. If not, we'll can it."

Creating notable things should not be a contest to impress Lindens...in fact, they probably should have nothing to do with it all. Strong LL presence in the world is probably not the best way for them to let the SL evolve...it is supposed to be our (I use the term loosely) collaborative vision after all. However, I'm not sure how making people pay for this is going to help, since once again, he with the gold will rule. From what I can see, you can now make a wooden cube a top pick. Voting, though, has the same problem as ratings; it can be gamed.

The larger effect of these changes would seem to do a lot of good for the world. While I suppose it's true there will be a number of people adversely effected, I think many of those people have just basically gotten used to a playstyle of being on the Linden dole, and now faced with the notion of becoming imaginative, competitive, and more independent, they are out of the comfort zone and at last into the mix.

Not perfect, but steps in the right direction. Either that, or after the taxes disaster, maybe any change at all just doesn't seem as bad.

Well said, Tcoz. Oh, and I think you should bring back your classes.

Great post Tcoz. I agree with you completely.

***hops on the Tcoz wagon***

Good post.

Great post Tcoz! Once again you prove a highly intelligent and thoughtful individual.

And yeah, start teaching again

Tcoz, I wasn't there when you were doing classes, but I sure would like to hear more of your tales of your personal experiences from those days!

Great post Tcoz!

I rarely post or read the forums. I wish I had more time! I am also one who is for the change in ratings. I go to events from time to time. And most certainly I have those who rate me for everything. How in the heck do they know if I can build? They never met me before! The ratings turned into a money making venture for many. You may take away all of my ratings. I suspect most of them came from events where people rated me,, not because they knew me. Most of my ratings came about because those in events hoped I would rate them back so they could have a bigger stipend.

My suggestion on all of this is,, if we should get any "bonus" of Linden dollars, it should be for the amount of time we are here. For example.. be here 6 months,, get an extra 10 L, etc.

Kathy
(and if I made any enemies, well I can handle it,, I am a good person!)

I'd pay to take a scripting class. Especially where the teacher could just boot annoying ppl. The one Linden sponsored scripting class I tried to take was a nightmare because of one fucktard.

Surreal

I agree with Lance..I agree with Lance? Oh well. The truth hurts Amy..Tcoz, if you were to start up a class or two again. I'd take em. Just from the weight of feeling in this post alone. You put it in a perspective a simple minded person like me could understand.

I've said for a long time that the ability for one player to negatively impact the experience of another in a game is a serious design flaw. In fact the ability to do so directly is somewhat unique to SL.

Get rid of 'em, but failing that...

...make it so you can only rate positively. People can remove their positive ratings if they like (somebody who rates you positively would probably need a very good reason to do it though, it's unlikely this would be abused). This would enforce a sort of "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all" (which is what Lindens tell you a lot one way or another) mechanism as opposed to the current drastically unbalanced one. Consider this; under the current system, EVERYBODY in SL can be a complete total jerk. But the person with the least neg ratings, not a single positive one, will win. Extreme and damn unlikely I know, but the fact is it is possible.

My point was that postive ratings,, was only a money making venture. Why have them if it means nothing other than to make a buck?

I do not believe there should be negative either. Many people do it just to be mean spirited.

Kathy

Curiouser...

Tcoz, which building in Nexus Prime is the InfoCenter? Do you have any pics from those days of you teaching classes and whatnot? I have always liked the cyberpunk vibe there and would like to learn more about what you did. Thanks!

I have a great many pics of the "old days" as it were. Why the InfoCenter isn't there anymore is a rather sad story and I won't drag it onto the boards unless forced to do so by the people involved. And I guarantee you that won't happen.

great post Tcoz!!

First of all, a lot of people are here to enjoy themselfs, not to make things. It seems that you want to make this the sims.

Second, I now wonder what many people will think, when they are in stores, with no money, and they would really love to buy that dress or that boat. And they cannot because the Vocal Minority was successful in getting rid of all pay. To make it worst, while they are standing there wishing they had money, lo and behold here comes one of the holier than thou vocal minority and buys, 10 dresses and 5 boats and then they turn to the person who would love to just buy one and says "Get a job"

Third, Buster, people came here to escape the real world where they have jobs. And now you want to take all the money away and make them work for it. God, they will say, I could do this in the real world, why come here???


Lindens, You made a massive mistake caveing into the vocal minority and the money exchangers. People will not get mad if you turn things back the way they were.

Mr. Bach, I have had people tell me the only reason they stayed past their first day here, was because I positive rated them (They did not rate me by the way) Now thanks to the vocal minority I cannot rate newbies.

I hope you all are happy. This world has now become a mundane plain world.

Nice thread. Very sane. (Is that allowed here?)

I'm interested in taking a class to learn how to script moving parts, specifically flapping wings. Actually, Tcoz, if you know how to write this sort of script, I'd be willing to pay your time as a tutor, if you're interested. Or if someone has a sample script they'd like to sell me, that works too. (I teach in RL and I'm quite willing to support those willing to share knowledge.) I've looked through the wiki and I'm just not getting the hang of it on my own.

Neko

Ok Mags, now you've gone from the exagerated to the ridiculous..

At what point - and show me posting from Lindens to back up your findings - do they say 'get rid of all pay' ?

Your argument seems to revolve around one 'fact' .... that you invented..

In the words of the great and wise Hobbes : "Bats aren't bugs".

Siggy.

The ability to make money hasn't gone out of SL. The only difference is now you can't just take money from the Lindens. You still have access to all the Linden tools to front your event and so forth, still get a stipend, and people who are here to just have fun and chat or whatever aren't going to have the significant amount of ratings needed to make a difference in their pay, so that change really doesn't effect them at all. You can still chat, hit up events, hang with friends and so on. In fact I really don't think you average funtime player will be impacted at all, or in fact they may benefit, since the changes will also undoubtedly lower prices and incent people to do things more cheaply, or free, to attract attention.

I would also say that using ratings to rate noobs that more or less nothing is known about is an illustration of what is wrong with the ratings system; I'm sure many of those noobs rate you back without even understanding what they are doing. Rating somebody should not be a trivial thing, pos or neg, it should be tied to something significant. I've often thought that you shouldn't be able to rate a noob. I've also seen people exploit noobs for ratings.

Remember I would rather the whole rating system were done away with due to the abuse of negs. Keep it in perspective; you need a LOT of ratings, like a LOT, to make a significant difference in your pay. The effect of a neg rating is more emotional than anything else for the overwhelming majority of players.

And I have no idea what "vocal minority" is all about. I'm about as reclusive in SL as you get and am not part of any majority or minority at all. If you mean people that are vocal about what they think of SL, I ASSURE you, that other than the fact I've put some intresting things in the world and have been playing the game for two years, the Lindens don't put any more or less weight on anything I say or think than anybody else, your fairly vocal and obviously strongly opinionated self included.

Not to mention the fact that I would hate to see SL fall apart because of problems with the economy, which is a serious problem in many games (see Ultima Online, where money is meaningless). BTW, it did almost happen when we used to have "taxes". Everybody pretty much immediately went broke and the game became unplayable since nobody could really afford to build anything, so occassional tweaks to the economy are inevitable to keep it moving along in a meaningful way.

The game is called "Second Life". And while I agree it shouldn't be a hard and grueling life, it isn't called "Escape from Life". There's an economy, social structure, and so on, and having nothing to do with them is having nothing to do with large parts of the game. One may as well play EQ without killing monsters. You want a nice new robe, sooner or later you're going to have to go out there and get it.

I've been very, very critical of many things LL has done with SL. I mean very. Believe me I'm no fanboy, but from two years in this game and the great deal of thinking I do about it, these changes look potentially positive to me, and I have a piles of relevant examples to make that point.

Magnum, thats Just. Plain. Dumb.

You can't create CRAP in TSOIt's all ABOUT socialization!

I just want you to know that I receaved 3,300 positive ratings (Total for all three groups) and have given 9,082 Positive ratings. I think this shows I was rating people so that they would have a good first impression of Second Life.

I am very upset and I think if I say more I will start hurting people so this will be my last post for a while. I hope you all understand that I like helping people. I have rated a few newbies tonight for a few hundred dollars.

Give someone a fish and you feed them for a day. Teach someone to fish and you feed them for a lifetime.

There are plenty of ways to help people Magnum

.............. give them a rocket launcher, they blow up a bingo hall

Tcoz, nice post.

The thought that this is "a step" and not a solution is right on. We will see what challenges this new change to the SL economy brings, and adjust again.

Just a very small point on Linden-supported Instructor classes - as of November, we were allowed to hold them on our own land, instead of Oak Grove. So we can boot

Oddly, I've never had to do that - yet!

LOL, yeah... that too