Buying land is harassment.

HOGWASH.

You were NOT told THAT.

I wasn't there, but I would lay odds that you were told that your behavior AFTERWARDS would constitute harrassment if you kept it up. (Or perhaps you were told that buying things while people are working on them, after being told not to do that, is harrassment.)

"I bought a newspaper from a convenience store. Then I pulled out a gun and told the clerk to give me all the money from the register. Then a nearby policeman arrested me! Just for buying a newspaper! So buying a newspaper is against the law now?"

Prok, sometimes your analogies are beyond absurd.

In Soviet Russa, you had to wait in line for toilet paper. There was hardly anything around you could buy. Making things and selling them was illegal. Nobody was giving cool stuff away for free. Maybe I'm not very bright, but I just can't connect those dots.

Buster

Disco,

I'm sorry that you were apparently raised with no morals, compassion, honor, honesty or integrity. I'm sure you actually still have a little voice that tells you what is right and wrong, but you choose to ignore it in favor of possible greed fulfillment.

Perhaps some quiet introspection next time can point you to the right path, even before the Lindens have to act like daycare providers and force you to do what you should have done first thing on your own.

Shame on you Disco.

While out exploring the other day I took a look to see what land was about and noticed a large parcel of land for sale at L$0. It Looked like the deal of the century so I did the obvious logical thing.....

Sent an IM to an officer of the group owned land to make them aware of the mistake, they appeared almost instantly and corrected it.

I'd hope that someone would do the same if I made such a error, as land for sale at that price or close to that price is so obviously a mistake.

-Zero

Let's see....

3300m of land....

price: $10...

Owner of said land standing *on* the land at the time....


Helloooo? What kind of predatory vulture does it take to actually have the nonsensical thought that the price was correct *and* would be fine to snatch up. Not to mention considering that the owner was right there, so 30 seconds of effort would've had the land owner confirming that the price was genuine.

Oh - and then the vulture admits to doing this exact same thing at least one time before? He should be happy he wasn't banned on the spot - heck knows the Linden that dealt with him had far more patience than I would have.

Community is about people working to make things better together, not against each other. It's pond-scum like this that need to be shown the door and told to work on raising their IQ some.


- Newfie

Let me get this right. Party “A” buys some land. Land was priced at a Low price. So the land was taken away and given back to Party “B”. Now most people would think well really no harm no foul. The problem is who was in the wrong here? Party “B” was just plain stupid. They made a mistake and Party “B” took advantage of this. This is done all the time.

Apple got the Mac OS for 1/64th of what it was worth.
MS got DOS for 1/64th of what it was worth.

Was it mean? No.

A old lady sold off her disused husbands baseball cards in a yard sale. A 8 year old seen a really good card for $0.25 he got the card and then sold it for a few K. The cort said the lady made a sad mistake but you can not sell something and then ask for more money.

The problem with all this is really simple. Second Life is not real life. IF the owners of Second Life disagree then sorry you are SOL and need to move on.

More idiot logic.

Sometimes things go on sale at Sears. Therefore stealing from department stores is legal.

If I drop my wallet and you pick it up, its yours, right? After all, I wouldn't have dropped it if I meant to keep it.

I found a suitcase sitting on the sidewalk and I picked it up. A person standing next to it said, "hey, that's mine". But I get to keep it because it was sitting on the sidewalk. If they wanted it they would have been holding onto it.

I found a car parked along the road with the keys in it. Obviously the owner intended that anyone could drive the car if they wanted to, otherwise they would not have left the keys in it.

I was in a K-Mart store and the clerk was changing a price sign. As they were putting the letters on the sign, there was a moment where the sign said "$1", because they had not yet put up the "7" and the "9" to make it $179. but because the sign said $1 for a moment there, so I grabbed one off the shelf, and I get to pay only $1.

Ok I'm done.

Or, to re-state what Buster said...

Your examples are flawed.

Microsoft payed a lot less for DOS than it was worth. But the person who sold it agreed to it. It was a deliberate sale, albiet it possibly a stupid one.

This was an accidental sale. Get it? The sale was never supposed to happen.

The two examples are not at all the same.

Ive not read through all the posts so escuse me if i say something already covered etc but.......


Of course if Disco Duck had bought the land and it was a mistake by the other owner he should have given it back but he shouldn't of been made to give it back. Im sorry but if you make a mistake its gone end of story (i would of given it back btw). If a shop prices a product wrong and you take it to the till they HAVE to sell it to you for that price i totally disagree with a Linden coming in and giving the land back. Disco had no morals and acting in a really bad way but he didn't actually break any rules.

lzol.

Yup.

coco

Disco You Should Be Ashamed Of Yourself And Propably Go To Church More Often It Helps!

Disco was not "punished" for "breaking rules".

He was merely deprived of what he thought was an opportunity to profit from another resident's obvious mistake. Despite any analogies to completely different situations in RL.

In RL, all sorts of transactions can be un-done when it can be shown that one party to the transaction truly did not intend to enter into the transaction. This is true even if the transaction was facilitated and completed via some kind of "system".

There are RL systems that have "non-repudiation" conditions, such as stock trading systems, where transactions are final in all cases because all parties to the system agree in advance that all transactions will be final. Online auction sites (EBay, for example) also have this contract provision that all participants agree to. This situation arises from the agreements that the parties sign in order to participate, not from the mechanics of the transaction or mere circumstance.

That such situations exist does not mean that SL is such a situation.

Buster

Of all your analogies, the best and most apt one. A pleasure to read it.

coco (sorry to be reading and replying to these piecemeal, didn't know I was gonna end up doing that)

The land sale being a mistake or an atempt to transfer to an alt or a friend and being scooped up by another player is a definite problem. The attempt to steal the land right out from under the person who paid probably a fair value for it is extremely disrepuatable.

The further attempt to Extort money for land that should never have been owned by the original poster is even worse. What did he do to earn 15,000$ L except take advantage of the original owner? Be it mistake or a poor way to transfer land .. it is nonetheless obvious they did not intend the land to be $10 to just anyone on the grid.

The fact that is isnt the first time the original poster has done such land grabs .. is absolutely incredulous. SO what i take from this is one of his businesses is taking land he does not acquire by legitamate means and either sells it off or extorts the person making mistake/misguided transfer.

Further his friends harrass those who offer to help with weapons that push and make coments to intimidate people not to interfere with his crime??

And to top it all off ... he is publicly crying he has been wronged on the forums .. becuase he didnt get his $15,000 he had Coerced the original land owner to agree to.

And he cites the fact he hasnt been banned yet for his business practices as proof he is not doing anything wrong.

As soon as I log in today Im goign to note on the original posters' profile "self admited criminal - stay away" so that i dont forget his name and actually converse with someone with these sots of values.

Sensible.

But (and maybe I'm missing something here) doesn't "sell to x" accomplish the same purpose?

Even if it does, a transfer option would cut down on errors.

I just got pointed to this thread, and being one of the dummies that contributed to the mistake that DD abused, i can only fully agree with the last post. We bought stuff IW accidently ourself that was not meant to be sold, and the normal thing to do for any honest and reputable person would be to sell it back on the spot, if it turns out to be a mistake. These rules of normal behavior are unfortunately not valid for a certain part of the population. I did not expect the Lindens to have to power to interct in the way they did , but I am thankful they did of course, which was the reason we "accepted" the "offer" that DD made.
However I do not think the harassment in this case was reallt abusing the opportunity we had accidently given, but the way DD and in special his group acted afterwards, basically dancing on our misfortune and harassing the girl that was supposed to buy the land (wjhich was not noted in the escription of the situation here). Lee Linden , who was present, most likely got a feeling for this too.

Hello I am the person who owned the land in question here... and I never stated it was a TYPO. Mr. Duck was listening to someone else say that. I tried speaking with him several times and I was ignored. When he finally spoke outloud I stated...I WAS SELLING THE LAND TO A FRIEND FOR 10 L AND MADE THE MISTAKE OF NOT KNOWING I SHOULD SET IT TO SELL TO HER ONLY. Mr. Duck was aware of this when he offered me 15K to purchase the land back. Yes, I was willing to pay it..cause I admit to my own ignorance here. All and all it was an eye opening experiece for me and my friends. Mr. Duck...Good Luck with all your future business deals .. and i wish to Thank the Lindens for listening to the whole story

<edited by me> Linden:
We do need to provide a warning, however; you can't use game mechanics
to harrass people. This includes using the Land Sales dialog to
acquire land from residents who clearly do not intend to sell the land.

(I, personally, did nothing to the person besides buying the land and not giving it back)

So yes, according to a linden, buying land that was mistakenly priced is harassment. That was the point of my thread, not to show that I was a victim, not to show that I deserve something, not to try to prove my case to the community, it was simply to point out, that according to at least some of the lindens, buying land that was mistakenly priced is harassment, thus the title of my thread. I am not going to argue morals or poor business practices, this was intended to be a thread to show the community that at least some of the lindens go out of their way to make up rules that don't exist in order to serve the people who cry the loudest.

Did I misread that?

Read it again. Assuming it's a real quote.

Pay special attention to the part I put in bold.

What more clearly expresses your desire to sell your land than the "Sell Land" check box? What more clearly expresses the price you want to sell it at than the box provided for you to type it? What more clearly expresses who you want to sell it to than the "Sell To" area?

I have seen land legitimately sold for less, so how is it "clearly in error"? Why does it allow you to sell land for L$10 in the first place if that is so obviously an error?

At worst it is a user interface issue that needs to be addressed. There is absolutely no reason someone should be held responsible and face disciplinary action for somebody else's mistake.

Robin Linden said in another thread, "...we are not in the business of legislating morality." What is this, then?

The business of ripping up some fast money it is for some people , which is fairly common in the internet.... and this usually goes at the expense of newbies, which *we* are in SL, or in other cases of people that do not have the time to read 50 pages of rules regulations and function, which you get easily together in SL.
I didnt doubt DD that he ran into this whole thing by chance, as we ran into it due to lack of better knowledge. Still my good taste would let me act different if the other side clearly states that the fact was a mistake, and no Linden would have to come to settle it. Obviously Masakazu falls into the same section of advantage takers at any expense... oh well... I run a business on the web since 7 years and I'm still there, since my practices are bound to fairness and service. I cant blame Linden for doing the same.

I'd like to thank everyone who posted to this thread no matter what their opinion is. Its been my experience that I learn more when I make an error than when things are running well. As with RL, we have ppl with morals and ppl without.. Right or Wrong isnt the issue here, its a question of what your conscience can live with

I personally want to thank Mr. Duck for starting this thread. IF nothing else was accomplished, maybe it will educate some ppl on how to Sell Land the appropriate way so this doesnt happen to others like me OR Mr. Duck. I would of accepted the outcome either way but I am happy the way it did turn out and I dont deny that.

I've been in various Virtual chats for many years and I was always under the impression we helped newbies. It was great to read that most of the Forum posters feel the same as me... SL is a great place, we just have to accept that, as in RL there are some ppl we wouldnt befriend or respect due to their principles. That dont necasarily make them Bad ppl, it just makes them ppl I personally want nothing to do with.

Thanx -

"Mr. Duck." lol!

coco