Dysfunctional SL forums... Solutions?

well said

It totally disagree. I think using negrates against people who defy all ethics in the forums by using coarse, vulgar, hateful, vituperative language against you in the forums, and harassing you regularly in the forums, is legitimate and indeed helps to strengthen the ethics in the forums.

I think vicious forums posters should be negrated in the game on "behaviour" and in fact on all three subjects since their appearance and their building in the sense of creating a community are all highly suspect due to their actions.

I defintely, definitely support negrating people who behave badly in this manner as a legitimate, necessary, and even underused feature of the game that should be used more often. I think too often people behave despicably here because they feel there are no consequences. A nice fat negrate in the game concentrates their mind wonderfully -- they have to rethink things they've done like make a gigantic caricature of you with an asshat and the icon from the boards here, or if they've write you something like "if you had kids I wouldn't ask you to fucking send it" and nasty things like that.

Such vulgar, coarse, hateful language all too often gets a pass here on the forums becuse the Lindens can't be everywhere, and not every player wants to spend their time trying to file ARs.



I think that if the friends are brought to someone's side in a fight and deployed to make some big point, they deserve a negrate in battle, too.

And the Lindens -- none other than the Lindens -- tell you to take your personal disagreements out of the forums and back into the game, and to use IMs and chat. And that also means other legitimate and sanctioned game features like the negrate and the ban. They are there to be used.



A negrate expressions a negative opinion of someone's behaviour, not of their "free speech". They can express what ever opinion they like, they're negrated not for their act of expression, but the content, which is objectionable. They've lied, slandered, and been vicious to you. Their behaviour just barely skirts the TOS so the Lindens can't do a thing. That's why negrates exist -- to express undeniable, instant disatisfaction with the really bad and insufferable way a person has acted.

Get acquainted with the facts of the story (above) and you'll see there is every reason not only to neg rate this person and their supporters, but to ban them from lots. And these are legitimate game tools, and I use them, handily.

That doesn't mean that I go scouring the game for chances to multi-negrate people I don't agree with, using my alts. I've done that only in one very special circumstance for one very vicious individual. I can think of only 4 people here who I've negrated due to their screamingly bad behavior and vituperative insults, but they aren't getting any kind of mass alt attack.



Perhaps it's unfair, but then they need to stop using vicious attacks with vulgar language and ridicule and harassment in that sequential media.



And indeed that person deserved every bit of that negrate for their bad behaviour and insulting, coarse, and venomous language. Look at what people write FIRST, then think about the negrate they get AFTERWARDS which is LEGITIMATE.

Yeah, I agree. I'd never bring personal stuff like this into forums UNLESS I WAS ATTACKED FIRST AND HAD TO DEFEND MY GOOD NAME.

You may find "defending my good name" a total crashing bore and may even believe it only worsens my "good name". Too bad! this individual *has to be stopped* in this project of constantly chasing around to my clients and bad-mouthing me and slandering me. It's really insidious and difficult to fight unless you take it to the forums to set the record straight, so at least you can give somebody a thread link to see what's what if they ask or are concerned. Trust me, AR's do little good but are worth filing because they help you illustrate the pattern if the behaviour persists, then you have a colletion of ARs and action is taken.

The forums are not my First Life. They're my Second Life. They are for discussing Second Life and my second life in it.

To assume that forums are "First Life" and somehow subject to "other laws" is just *your own* perception, and not "the truth".

Thanks, Toy. For those of you watching at home, I thought this bit was particularly persuasive:



So for those of you taking a peek behind your bans of me, focus on that bit. It's a doozy. And it gives the lie to the whole Traxxian project of discrediting me. He's willing to stop at nothing in doing so, even sanctioning physical blocking of my land (as he once was willing to do in Wetheral when it was done by his engineering pal there), even sanctioning an officer recall harming not just me, but tenants. Please think about that when you accept this person's "word".

I only have three worthwhile things to say about this thread:

(1) Sometimes blowhards, ravers, and ranters have interesting and thought-provoking things to say. As pissed off as he gets me sometimes, Prokofy does make a valid point now and then, if you can get around the extra vegetative mass about the Soviet Union, hippie communes, and nonesuch. The same is true, and with less vegetative mass, about blaze Spinnaker. I would hate to have anyone "banished" to a "trashcan forum", for whatever reason. Such behavior strikes me more as self-induced ignorance on the part of others, rather than censorship.

(2) I hate point and/or rate systems. They devolve easily and quickly into popularity contests, and popularity contests are nothing more than instinctual hierarchies - behaviors we share with ants, lion prides, and mountain gorillas. No thanks, I'm better than that, and so are you. Popularity is a concept we most definitely want to keep out of any attempts at forum reform, because exclusion-or-inclusion-by-popularity is perhaps the major factor contributing to so much of the shit that goes on here. The forums are a place for ideas and creative initiatives. The concept of popularity as most people play it out are detrimental to the free exchange of ideas and creative thinking.

(3) I can think of nothing else worthwhile to say at this point, so I'm going to end this post now. Which is the third worthwhile thing I want to say, and an approach that many, many (myself included) ought to take more often on these forums.

No , you misinterpreted my intent. I meant if someone gets so angry they have to follow people into the game and retaliate, they need to revaluate their detachment.

People shouldnt let their Second life get to them to such a degree.

Yes the forums are second life related they do not carry different rules belonging to some area seperate from the Second Life Game. Instead they garner a different set of rules becuase they are Forums .. and as such a certain way of communicating ideas that have inherent possitives and negatives.

This is true of other forums. Second life and even MMOGs didnt invent forums.

However it is interesting my opinion is "just *my own* perception" while your opinion is "the truth" , whether you have Linden permission to behave in such a way or not.

Warning: Hijacking in progress!

The last 8 or 10 posts are exactly what needs to be managed to prevent threads from becoming irrelevant or annoying. It is this kind of verbose, duplicated and non sequitur posting that has discouraged me from proceeding with threads I have started or participated in.

I like many of the proposals already made, and would suggest some modifications. I think the person who starts the thread should have some control over what goes into it. Given the effect that massive two or three thousand word posts have, the thread originator should be able to set a maximum post size for that thread.

Although the idea of moving posts to a Contrarian thread is cute, that might have some implementation issues - do you get to post responses in the contrarian thread, and if so is the first person in that alternate thread the owner, able to move responses to a counter-contrarian thread? I would suggest a very simple approach: the thread owner could minimize a post so that you could tell something was there, but you would have to click on it to bring it up and read it. Minimized posts would not disrupt the flow of useful discussion.

I think this about the situation you are refering to --

A build in such a way to hurt you financally in game should after reasonable and civil attempts to have it removed should be handled by the Abuse report system and thus the Lindens. If the dont respond then I suppose you should call customer service.

If that is what happened, It is of course wrong you had that happen to you.

Both parties continuing the disagreement in game and on the forums is wrong.

But all I saw is a complaaint that a "form troll" was harrassing Traxx in game. And harrassment is wrong, EVEN if the person wronged you >

Once civil attempts to resolve the issue fail. Then its a customer service problem, end.

Back on topic:

What would you do to prevent the obvious hijacking of threads? Should tools be added to handle this? It is especially difficult when others participate in the hijacking and respond to something that should very clearly be its own thread (if in the forums at all).

Yes you are right of course.

But my point was the general arguements in threads shouldnt lead to ingame retaliation since Traxx was trying to explain how far trolls can go.

Didnt mean to hijack the thread.

The point that civility in the forums will help the forums without changes is a good one.

It seems civility in the game will help the forums without changes.

I would think limited the lines in each thread easier to impliment then a word limit? since the software would have to count words? Im not a programmer it was just my guess.

the box would simply stop scrolling when you were at the limit.

I SEE YOU AIMEE!!!!!!

This person advocates the creation of a closed, insular society in which even starting a discussion in a group is something that cannot be open, but has to allow for the overreach -- I've never in all my born days heard of an open discussion in which the opener gets to reach around and grab all the responders by the jugular and hijack them over to some "contrarian" thread. That is just nuts.

This thread isn't being hijacked, this thread is about preventing the hijacking of this game by some pretty seriously sinister minds, something I've had the misfortune to see up close and personal.

I don't at all advocate duplicate posting or posting entire captured quotations, but sometimes it is necessary to see the two next to each other. I'll be sure not to add to my already lengthy posts by never doing that again. I thought it was a courtesy in responding to someone who had posted.

I disagree that if you follow someone into the game from the forums you need to "get a life" or "take a step back". THAT person who used such horridly nasty tactics on you, demeaning and dehumanizing you and calling you "it" and shouting things like FUCK YOU, is the person who needs to "get a life" and "take a step back". And part of the way you concentrate their minds wonderfully on that little need of theirs, is to *negrate them*. They often stop after that, I find. It's a great, handy tool. Use it. You can even offer to undo it if they become more civil to you. I often reverse a negrate after I have started a dialogue in this fashion.

And Prok was trying to explain how far Traxx went FIRST by hounding my customers, telling them all kinds of malicious and false claims, following up and framing false witnesses, forging contracts and forging signatures to coerce behaviour, and sanctioning the use of terrorist tactics like malicious officer recall.

It's astounding.

Fighting back against a great evil like that isn't trolling, it's about preserving dignity and humanity in the face of some pretty sinister and nasty stuff.

Don't be fooled by all the pretty little buildings.

Wow! As a result of some long winded posts in this thread I have added the very first person to my ignore list and what a difference it makes. I highly recommend it

it does make the forums a lot more pleasent doesnt it?

Yes, it does. I finally added my first as well. I'm a pretty positive fellow most of the time; it takes a lot to push me to the point of wanting someone removed from my awareness. However, it will make it so much easier to read and enjoy well considered, thoughtful, discoursive and substantive posts.

Not to mention not having to see what is probably a very accurate, and certainly distasteful, to me, icon.

I would say it is almost cathartic

Life is always more enjoyable when one clears the clutter. Congrats on the peace and quiet.