Second Life Forums Archive - Stop The Insanity

Khamon Fate

fategardens.net

Join date: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 4,177

12-25-2003 07:16

here's one solution haney:

put some primmy sims online. if lindens own half the land, the rest can be sold for 10L$ per m^2 and $10RL a month (what do y'all call taxes now? maintenance fees?). that's $10 a month for ownership in the sim, not per unit.

the owners could be given 7 prims per parcel. oh let's be merry and give them 8 per.

now, state very very clearly that these sims are special. they're for people who want primmy builds. they cost more to purchase and more to keep. but you can build more too and the rules will not change i.e. the lindens will not release land and reassign the prim allocation.

i've gotta go open gifts so y'all tear this up as is and i'll finish it later.

BlackAdder York

Charter Member

Join date: 22 May 2003

Posts: 283

Trail of Tears

01-08-2004 23:15

From: someone

Originally posted by Dave Zeeman
LL will most likely adjust the land/object settings for places where it is appropriate. They have a lot to deal with right now but will get around to your needs, trust me on that.

Glad I didn't trust you on that one, Dave. Green is now being changed to a themed sim, and all current residents are having their land stolen from them. Offering me substitute land in DeHaro is no substitute at all. I chose Green, because that's were I wanted to be.

From: someone

Originally posted by Haney Linden
There are many great points in this thread and we are working on a plan to address them. This should be in place before January 12 - the date when you would need to reduce objects because of the prim per meter constraints.

Stealing my land out from under me is a plan?

Trust is not given, it's earned. And the Lindens have lost mine. Yes, I know that the TOS says LL can remove or change any part of the game any time they feel like it. However, I paid for my Charter Membership on the assumption that LL would continue to treat people fairly as they had during Beta. My bad.

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David Cartier

Registered User

Join date: 8 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,018

Re: Trail of Tears

01-09-2004 00:03

Green and deHaro were pretty much intended for new residents anyway, so they could buy a place and put up a cabin without having to save up cash.

From: someone

Originally posted by BlackAdder York
Glad I didn't trust you on that one, Dave. Green is now being changed to a themed sim, and all current residents are having their land stolen from them. Offering me substitute land in DeHaro is no substitute at all. I chose Green, because that's were I wanted to be.

Stealing my land out from under me is a plan?

Trust is not given, it's earned. And the Lindens have lost mine. Yes, I know that the TOS says LL can remove or change any part of the game any time they feel like it. However, I paid for my Charter Membership on the assumption that LL would continue to treat people fairly as they had during Beta. My bad.

Devlin Gallant

Thought Police

Join date: 18 Jun 2003

Posts: 5,948

01-09-2004 01:00

Haven't you ever heard of eminent domain?

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Kex Godel

Master Slacker

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 869

01-09-2004 08:21

My biggest concern with being forced to move is what happens if you have a complex structure that's too big to link together?

If something like this is going to be happening again in the future, I suggest someone at LL develop a system to automatically move all of the objects on property to the new location, in the same relative positions as they were on the former property, to avoid having lost lots of work getting everything to line up exactly for complicated unlinkable builds.

BlackAdder York

Charter Member

Join date: 22 May 2003

Posts: 283

01-09-2004 17:49

From: someone

Originally posted by Kex Godel
My biggest concern with being forced to move is what happens if you have a complex structure that's too big to link together?

If something like this is going to be happening again in the future, I suggest someone at LL develop a system to automatically move all of the objects on property to the new location, in the same relative positions as they were on the former property, to avoid having lost lots of work getting everything to line up exactly for complicated unlinkable builds.

Really good idea there, Kex. Getting all of the different builds that I used in Green perfectly aligned with each other, and with the surrounding environment, was pretty time consuming, finicky work. No way am I interested in doing it again from scratch.

I also think it's incredible that LL is actually trying to get me to pay L$512 for the 'replacement land' in De Haro. I actually went to look at that parcel, and it was unusable...very uneven terrain, and oddly shaped instead of a proper rectangle. And of course you're not allowed to use land tools in De Haro, Brown, or Boardman.

So, I rather firmly turned down the offer of land in De Haro. I'm just giving up on the whole deal and turning my attention back to my other projects.

Anybody remember when this was still fun???

_____________________

Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies.

The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat

Haney Linden

Senior Member

Join date: 3 Oct 2002

Posts: 990

01-09-2004 19:39

This is the first time we've asked residents to move in a long time as far as I know and I understand it's very disconcerting. But it didn't make sense to continue with so few people using Green, especially since De Haro has the same zoning. We do plan to pay residents for their land.

Maxx Monde

Registered User

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 1,848

01-10-2004 06:23

**deleted**

Starwaster Peregrine

Registered User

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 26

01-10-2004 10:20

From: someone

Originally posted by Maxx Monde
As for the land not being 'usable'...uh, unless it is a sheer 90 degree cliff, I'd agree to some extent, in fact, I'd even be crazy enough to try a cliff build. But back on topic, all land is usable, its up to you to adapt to your surroundings, at least that is what I try to do. Flattening everything to a normalized Z plane of perfection is the first thing that a new builder does. Rarely is it really necessary.

Just sayin' is all.

Flattening requires use of the land tools, yes? Didn't he just get done saying that land tools were not available in DeHaro?

On the other hand I'm not sure I see why DeHaro requires extensive editing. Prim allowance is 3 times higher than what he had before too. I'd have taken it.

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"I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto upon learning of the success of the Japanese raid on Pearl Harbor which killed 2,400 Americans.

Maxx Monde

Registered User

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 1,848

01-10-2004 10:23

**deleted**

BlackAdder York

Charter Member

Join date: 22 May 2003

Posts: 283

01-10-2004 18:01

Just to clarify what I was saying about the flatness of the the parcel in De Haro...

I didn't mean to imply that I can never build on land which isn't perfectly flat. Neither of my two main homes (the former one in Varney which I started on back in Beta, or the current one in Clara) were built on perfectly flat terrain. Nor did I alter either of those parcels significantly before starting to build.

What I meant was that the specific construct I have right now in Green is on perfectly flat land, and that the design simply isn't viable on rolling terrain. So, if I'd taken the land in De Haro, I couldn't simply relocate my Green build to that parcel as-is. It would have required major changes which I simply don't have the RL time to do. The land in De Haro would be worthless to me because there isn't anything I'd be interested in using it for.

The real loss to me isn't the money...it's the time invested in a build which was very special to me, but will probably never again be rezzed. But, that's the real tragedy of 1.2 for many people. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be able to link the whole thing together as a single unit to keep in inventory (until the day comes when the whole world is a sandbox). I pretty much did that when I vacated Varney.

This horse is dead, and I feel like I've more than beat it enough.

_____________________

Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies.

The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat

Jim Lupis

Fuzzy Taberite

Join date: 8 Jul 2003

Posts: 78

01-10-2004 18:39

From: someone

Originally posted by BlackAdder York

This horse is dead, and I feel like I've more than beat it enough.

Careful, someone may resurrect it. And believe me, it ain't a pretty sight.

Stop The Insanity
Khamon Fate fategardens.net Join date: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 4,177	12-25-2003 07:16 here's one solution haney: put some primmy sims online. if lindens own half the land, the rest can be sold for 10L$ per m^2 and $10RL a month (what do y'all call taxes now? maintenance fees?). that's $10 a month for ownership in the sim, not per unit. the owners could be given 7 prims per parcel. oh let's be merry and give them 8 per. now, state very very clearly that these sims are special. they're for people who want primmy builds. they cost more to purchase and more to keep. but you can build more too and the rules will not change i.e. the lindens will not release land and reassign the prim allocation. i've gotta go open gifts so y'all tear this up as is and i'll finish it later.
BlackAdder York Charter Member Join date: 22 May 2003 Posts: 283	Trail of Tears 01-08-2004 23:15 From: someone Originally posted by Dave Zeeman LL will most likely adjust the land/object settings for places where it is appropriate. They have a lot to deal with right now but will get around to your needs, trust me on that. Glad I didn't trust you on that one, Dave. Green is now being changed to a themed sim, and all current residents are having their land stolen from them. Offering me substitute land in DeHaro is no substitute at all. I chose Green, because that's were I wanted to be. From: someone Originally posted by Haney Linden There are many great points in this thread and we are working on a plan to address them. This should be in place before January 12 - the date when you would need to reduce objects because of the prim per meter constraints. Stealing my land out from under me is a plan? Trust is not given, it's earned. And the Lindens have lost mine. Yes, I know that the TOS says LL can remove or change any part of the game any time they feel like it. However, I paid for my Charter Membership on the assumption that LL would continue to treat people fairly as they had during Beta. My bad. _____________________ Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies. The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat
David Cartier Registered User Join date: 8 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,018	Re: Trail of Tears 01-09-2004 00:03 Green and deHaro were pretty much intended for new residents anyway, so they could buy a place and put up a cabin without having to save up cash. From: someone Originally posted by BlackAdder York Glad I didn't trust you on that one, Dave. Green is now being changed to a themed sim, and all current residents are having their land stolen from them. Offering me substitute land in DeHaro is no substitute at all. I chose Green, because that's were I wanted to be. Stealing my land out from under me is a plan? Trust is not given, it's earned. And the Lindens have lost mine. Yes, I know that the TOS says LL can remove or change any part of the game any time they feel like it. However, I paid for my Charter Membership on the assumption that LL would continue to treat people fairly as they had during Beta. My bad.
Devlin Gallant Thought Police Join date: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 5,948	01-09-2004 01:00 Haven't you ever heard of eminent domain? _____________________ I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
Kex Godel Master Slacker Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 869	01-09-2004 08:21 My biggest concern with being forced to move is what happens if you have a complex structure that's too big to link together? If something like this is going to be happening again in the future, I suggest someone at LL develop a system to automatically move all of the objects on property to the new location, in the same relative positions as they were on the former property, to avoid having lost lots of work getting everything to line up exactly for complicated unlinkable builds.
BlackAdder York Charter Member Join date: 22 May 2003 Posts: 283	01-09-2004 17:49 From: someone Originally posted by Kex Godel My biggest concern with being forced to move is what happens if you have a complex structure that's too big to link together? If something like this is going to be happening again in the future, I suggest someone at LL develop a system to automatically move all of the objects on property to the new location, in the same relative positions as they were on the former property, to avoid having lost lots of work getting everything to line up exactly for complicated unlinkable builds. Really good idea there, Kex. Getting all of the different builds that I used in Green perfectly aligned with each other, and with the surrounding environment, was pretty time consuming, finicky work. No way am I interested in doing it again from scratch. I also think it's incredible that LL is actually trying to get me to pay L$512 for the 'replacement land' in De Haro. I actually went to look at that parcel, and it was unusable...very uneven terrain, and oddly shaped instead of a proper rectangle. And of course you're not allowed to use land tools in De Haro, Brown, or Boardman. So, I rather firmly turned down the offer of land in De Haro. I'm just giving up on the whole deal and turning my attention back to my other projects. Anybody remember when this was still fun??? _____________________ Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies. The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat
Haney Linden Senior Member Join date: 3 Oct 2002 Posts: 990	01-09-2004 19:39 This is the first time we've asked residents to move in a long time as far as I know and I understand it's very disconcerting. But it didn't make sense to continue with so few people using Green, especially since De Haro has the same zoning. We do plan to pay residents for their land.
Maxx Monde Registered User Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 1,848	01-10-2004 06:23 deleted
Starwaster Peregrine Registered User Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 26	01-10-2004 10:20 From: someone Originally posted by Maxx Monde As for the land not being 'usable'...uh, unless it is a sheer 90 degree cliff, I'd agree to some extent, in fact, I'd even be crazy enough to try a cliff build. But back on topic, all land is usable, its up to you to adapt to your surroundings, at least that is what I try to do. Flattening everything to a normalized Z plane of perfection is the first thing that a new builder does. Rarely is it really necessary. Just sayin' is all. Flattening requires use of the land tools, yes? Didn't he just get done saying that land tools were not available in DeHaro? On the other hand I'm not sure I see why DeHaro requires extensive editing. Prim allowance is 3 times higher than what he had before too. I'd have taken it. _____________________ "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto upon learning of the success of the Japanese raid on Pearl Harbor which killed 2,400 Americans.
Maxx Monde Registered User Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 1,848	01-10-2004 10:23 deleted
BlackAdder York Charter Member Join date: 22 May 2003 Posts: 283	01-10-2004 18:01 Just to clarify what I was saying about the flatness of the the parcel in De Haro... I didn't mean to imply that I can never build on land which isn't perfectly flat. Neither of my two main homes (the former one in Varney which I started on back in Beta, or the current one in Clara) were built on perfectly flat terrain. Nor did I alter either of those parcels significantly before starting to build. What I meant was that the specific construct I have right now in Green is on perfectly flat land, and that the design simply isn't viable on rolling terrain. So, if I'd taken the land in De Haro, I couldn't simply relocate my Green build to that parcel as-is. It would have required major changes which I simply don't have the RL time to do. The land in De Haro would be worthless to me because there isn't anything I'd be interested in using it for. The real loss to me isn't the money...it's the time invested in a build which was very special to me, but will probably never again be rezzed. But, that's the real tragedy of 1.2 for many people. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be able to link the whole thing together as a single unit to keep in inventory (until the day comes when the whole world is a sandbox). I pretty much did that when I vacated Varney. This horse is dead, and I feel like I've more than beat it enough. _____________________ Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies. The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat
Jim Lupis Fuzzy Taberite Join date: 8 Jul 2003 Posts: 78	01-10-2004 18:39 From: someone Originally posted by BlackAdder York This horse is dead, and I feel like I've more than beat it enough. Careful, someone may resurrect it. And believe me, it ain't a pretty sight.

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