Stop The Insanity

Honestly, how difficult would it have been to fully anticipate the devastating consequences of the 1.2 New World Order? The 12x12 plots in Green and DeHaro are limited to 32 prims. We aren't allowed to own any other land in these sims if we one one of those plots. The required structure on those plots is the Tent--a 40 prim item.

So we're allowed only 32 prims, but are required to rez a 40 prim structure.

I'm finding nothing amusing in this. I own a 12x12 in Green, and between the tent and a few furnishings have 57 prims. So, what exactly is going to happen in January? Are 8 random prims from the tent going to be removed?

This isn't what I signed up for when I forked over $159.95 for a Charter Lifetime Membership back in June.

And please don't waste my time telling me that I could redesign the Tent so that it uses fewer prims. I've already spent at least ten hours of my life painstakingly changing every single texture on it. The way it looks now is precisely the way I want it to look; and good enough that I've been able to sell the redesigned version.

The reason I bought that land and created a special version of the Tent was so that I could eventually create a peaceful meditation retreat for the free use of anyone who might want to use it. My bad...forgive me for caring.

I wondered this exact thing myself. If my completely linked build is over my limit... what's gonna get deleted? At a guess, the whole thing.

LL will most likely adjust the land/object settings for places where it is appropriate. They have a lot to deal with right now but will get around to your needs, trust me on that.

Well, I have a cabin on a modest 192 sq m patch in de Haro. I thought that my furnishings were not excessive, although the site is pretty full. I see that I'm allowed 43 objects, but in fact have 275.

The one really great thing about SL, from the outsider's point of view - the one thing that will encourage new people to participate - is the quality of imagination that goes into the buildings. I cannot understand why this is the first thing to be thrown away. It seems to be to be a self-destructive move, and I agree that it needs to be looked at again.

I am a newcomer, and I have been somewhat depressed by talking to many established residents who are going to have to de-rez their dwellings that they have spent time and effort on furnishing. Anything that ruins the quality of the experience for so many people should not be undertaken without extensive thought and consultation.

Get around to it?! That sounds like priority one. Any new user coming on will be totally stumped. Everyone else is used to these kinds of goofs. The new users won't understand.

There appears to be no way for me to keep my house. It has been there a long, long time...as far as SL is concerned, you could say it's been there since shortly after Adam and Eve went east. I've had to fight to keep it standing through taxes, game changes, and so on. But now, since it's on a small plot of land, I either have to buy little patches of land all over natoma to get a higher object allotment, which I actually think is against the ToS, or move.

It's always been there, it's the one thing I've created in SL that has endured, and I do all my work there. I've got it set up just right with weather effects, particle filters, etc. I do NOT want to move that structure, it's not something you just link and put in inventory. Is this going to happen every time a major release of the game is issued?

I have to admit, the short sightedness of this all to me is rather amazing. In the interest of courting casual users, they destroyed one of the most unique qualities of this game. I still have some space left to build, but only because I took on 4000 meters of land I did not really want (land under water and on the side of mountains I might add) just to have more prims. We are paying more money for less than we had before, how on earth is that a good thing?

I have 4096m of land and I will probably be fine with my prims since I am not a hardcore builder. But, it seems the majority of players are going to be severely limited in what they can do. I have been flying around the world and seeing lots of cool builds on small plots (like Tcoz) that are way over their prim limit and will be going away.

The prim use and/or land allotments have to go up for this to continue to be a fun experience for the majority of players. Sharing equal prims vs. land sounds good on paper, but it is really going to hurt things in the long run.

Something has to be done fast, new users seeing the world for the first time are not going to have the patience to wait it out.

As I understand it, this is exactly how the new system is supposed to work.

All of the housing areas, created by LL are going to suffer from the land/prim thing. There just is not land availble to increase how many prims I can use. Other then buying another plot and that just seems wasteful. To buy land I know full well I would never use? Not to meniton I don't get this 15k per sim thing in those areas. I looked and if each of the 20 plots in Brown only are allowed 106( i think ) that doesn't come anywhere close to 15k. All Brown is is the pre-fab housing. There appears to be only 7 plots that could be made and then sold later. So that still would never account for the 15k prims that have been allotted to that Sim. I know that all LL owned stuff..likes trees, streetlights, and stall walls all count as prims. Sooo take down a couple trees and lights and let the people use the prims themselves =)

I'm pretty sure the prims-per-square-meter ratio is going to increase over time as technology and hardware improves...

At least now you have to pay for the service based on what you consume, not a flat rate (When servers are spraying 300k/s worth of textures and prims at me, sustained, for 20 minutes, I know thats a huge cost involved).

But as for the prims-per-square-meter, I'm absolutely sure thats going to increase at some point... especialy when the new physics kicks in, or even just over time.

It's a new world order, every thing changes.
It's a revolution we didn't see coming. woohboy!

Reaching all the way back to beta, I can only remember the lindens promising us change, and nothing else.

As far as everyone's changes,I can certainly can have empathy for all of you. I have had been, due to one change or another (and not always Linden caused), forced out of every home and piece of land I have owned in SL.

Oddly enough I am extremely excited about these new changes. I think they are for the good of the many. One needs to remember, as in rl, "nothing gold can stay".

But one can always rebuild, without taxes now.


fen-

3 objects per 16 sq meter parcel? wtf?

There are many great points in this thread and we are working on a plan to address them. This should be in place before January 12 - the date when you would need to reduce objects because of the prim per meter constraints.

"Game designers have chosen to work with the most liberating of media, yet they snatch back with their left hand the freedom they offered us with their right...Every freedom that you can give to the player is an artistic victory. And every needless boundary in your game should feel to you like failure." - Orson Scott Card (article in Compute magazine, Feb. 1991)

And everybody remember; it is the practice of building 200 prim constructs on 16x16 pieces of land, and prim hoarding, and checkerboarding, that forced the economy to change in the first place. Now, if you want to use more of the very real, limited physical resouce that is the host server of a sim, you have to pay more. Under the old system, the fact that you were paying the same for SL membership as the next Joe SecondLifer didn't automatically give you the same ownership rights as someone who had been on longer. Certainly, this (hypothetical) older member may be contributing to the SL experience, but in doing so they were preventing new people from possibly equally adding to SL, either by buying only small plots that exactly fit under their builds (and leaving narrow strips around that were practically unusable by others) or by accidentally or deliberately building overly prim-intensive objects.

I am hoping that:
a) This NEW system will be adjusted to work out the flaws as time goes on (a virtual certainty). If nothing else, technology advances fast enough that prim limits will surely go up, if not next week, then next year.

b) People will learn to build more efficiently - is it REALLY that disappointing that your chandelier may not have a separate wall switch, your oven might not have individual burners that turn on separately, or your bathroom sink not "actually" work? Clever use of textures can greatly reduce prim requirements.
(Please note - I have seen several sinks that work this way, but no chandeliers or stove tops. So PLEASE do not consider this post a personal attack if your build happens to have one of these - they are just things that I imagine exist somewhere in SL).

c) I know from casual conversation with a couple of Lindens that they are aware of the negative impact of losing some of the older, great but prim-intensive builds. I am certain that they will come up with some system of preserving these. I am also certain that any ideas on how to do this would be well received by the Lindens.

<<derezzing soapbox>>

**deleted**

But the prim use *did* just go up, by a full 50%. How can the majority of users be severely limited at the same time that prim counts go way up? That doesn't make any sense.

I realize that things that don't make sense happen all the time, but this feels like a temporary problem, not a fundamental flaw in the system.

Perhaps it is a small minority of prolific users who are suffering -- which is a different but real problem. To those oldtimers who have created the structures we know and love -- your prims didn't just *disappear*. In fact, there's more of them than ever. It's just now, your neighbors own them, in proportion to the land they own. You know they aren't using them, so why not be sociable and ask for a loan?

This feature is not yet implemented.

But probably should have been when 1.2 came out. It would have resolved a lot of grief.

Because so many builds were the result of a friendly collaboration before, a lot of them are now in difficulties. This is because before you could pack as many prims as you wanted onto a single parcel, and share construction costs. Now this is strictly limited, and things that were located without regard to property lines will have to be moved to where the prims are. This applies even if among you and your friends you own more than enough land to account for the total share of prims!

They REALLY should have figured out how to handle group land and sharing of prims BEFORE they rolled out the new rules.

With all the worrying over the survival of things, I must take comfort in my Kung-Fu-Movie Buddhism:

All created things are impermanent, and to hold onto them will bring only suffering. Instead learn to delight in the creation and destruction, and in the company of friends. For while all created things will pass away, you are not created. You are the creators.

Buying up as many bits of land as you need to support your house is not against the TOS. There should be enough available land to do it, certainly...

How about some sort of "Landmark Registry"? Builds could become eligible for registry by polling or some other means. Maybe pass out ballots like they do at the MLB stadiums for All-Star Player voting. Once on the list you could qualify for enough prim rights to support your build, and enough of a prim rights buffer to be able to accomodate visitors, and for using the place to work on new projects. Maybe a nice little sign out front denoting your build as a "Landmark". Just a thought.

2 obvious solutions are:

1) Allow extra prim allocations to be purchased like land is now.

The flaw in this is that the maximun prims are shared currently between all land owners. Therefore there are no "spare" prims to sell.

2) Have some old buildings deemed historical and set to

a) undeleteable (but counted as allocated prims still)

b) not counted as prim allocations and ownership passed to the game/Lindens. The problem with this is remaining prims on the server are then split between all other land owners. ie. being in a sim with Historical high prim buildings would mean less prims per land area available from the server. Which would cause people to leave sims with historical areas.

Keeping your 1000 prim dwelling on your 16x16 land is abuse of resources regardless of whether it was ok in 1.1 or not.

There should be the option though to purchase the extra resources you need

or

to state the case for the benefit to SL society which means it becomes the property of SL society/game.

Keeping it because you could before 1.2 is continuing the abuse seen in 1.1 which lead to continuous "Alert: Server full" messages which stopped me from building as a newbie.

1.2 IS far supperiour and fairer than 1.1. The only people suffering in 1.2 are those with excessive prims that stopped us new people from being able to build in 1.1!!

Long live 1.2!!!

Merry Chrismas from Australia
Psyke.

DeHaro is special in the sense most of the land is Linden owned and not available. We have our small plots which should be able to be prim heavy since so much of the land can't be built on.

So say 80% (out of a hat) isn't in use then the residents should get 5 times the prim amounts for their land compared to a sim where all the land can be purchased, to reach the 15000 prims a sim can handle.

Technically this seems right, but then how do you tell existing residents that DeHaro residents get more prims for the same amount of money because they built on more isolated land?

I'm thinking about this because... I own a 12 (4x4 meter) square area in DeHaro which has my cabin I love at 185 prims. I also have a 52 square area in Perry but I prefer my DeHaro area even though it is small. It looks presently like I'll have to move to Perry.