Declaration of Independance ban flap

Hmm....can't teach The Dec. of Indy in class due to religion...but they still get a 'Holiday' break...strange.

I've often wondered why the folks so against religion and politics mixing still take Easter, Christmas, & Chanukkah vacation days. If the issue was soooo pressing, why not decline the time off in protest?

Why? Pile them on. Ask yourself why we don't have days off for every Jewish holiday? How about every other variant of the winter solstice festival (xmas) or the fertility festival (easter) or every other possible religious holiday?

What about all those poor dissected frogs etc. that were sacrificed on the altar of science for so many years in school biology classes?

I don't think that anyone is talking about students actually practicing religions in a comparitive religion class. That would create alot of problems for the students obviously and also most likely for religious institutions as well. For example I'm sure the Catholic church would take a dim view of a layperson teacher administering the ritual of communion in order to 'demonstrate' the practice to his/her students.

That said, it would be very difficult to study, for example, the history and religion of the Aztecs, without mentioning the practice of human sacrifice. Both history and the history of religion, if not the religions themselves, are full of gory and currently illegal practices. (It is also currently illegal to burn witches at the stake btw.) Should these things be glossed over or not taught at all so that the sensitive minds of school children are innocent of such harsh realities as when they go home to play GTA? I don't think so.

Lastly, I don't think that any muslim has ever claimed that suicide bombing is an Islamic ritual. It is a fighting technique ( a tactically stupid one in my opinion) that, yes, according to islamic teaching assures the deceased a place in heaven as a martyr, but it is born of circumstance and is no more an integral part of Islam than being thrown to lions by pagans is of Christianity.

hehe, the bombing thing was a joke.

All was getting at with the "Satanism" thing is that, should it involve illegal practices (which I don't know), in this specific case it may spark someone's interest enough to try and carry out such things. (It's not about not offending people.) That interest may arise anyway, but the school board doesn't want the class to be that "spark" for obvious reasons. (And perhaps they were thinking about possible legal repercussions as well...) I disagree with their end decision but I can see what they're getting at there, maybe. Why it may involve something illegal--well, think about the kind of activities it may involve. Of course dissecting a frog isn't illegal (unless the animal activists get their way), but torturing/killing *some* animals can get you into alot of trouble. I'll refrain from getting specific because I don't want to think about what some scumbags do right now.

However...

I've re-evaluated my position that Satanism shouldn't even be mentioned...and since it couldn't possibly go into great detail anyway (unless the teacher is off his rocker), including it probably wouldn't cause any harm, bottom line. I've done my best to imagine someone getting involved with such a thing after having an interest sparked in a classroom, but while it may be possible I don't think it's gonna really happen.

But I still reserve the right to make a judgement call about Satanism and call it a BAD "religion". Or evil if you prefer. I'm no expert but I think you could make a case that even non-Christians should see it that way.

Chip, we can't have days off for every holiday for a few reasons off the top of my head..hehe:
--Using the same argument you've used, which days for which religions? How many would we end up with? (We don't even take off for all the Christian ones yet!)
--It'd be breaking the (controversial) separation of church and state rule even worse than it is now, if we're talking about national holidays here.
--Would it ruin our economy? (No really, not joking...it'd be like shortening the work week...I don't know what that'd do here. But something tells me we'd be less competitive globally for one.)

Christianity is pretty rooted in American culture, but would ripping it out and injecting...everything...ruin that culture? Have a happy RamaHanuKwanzMas! hehe...

You could make the same argument about any religion. Every single one of them has involved things that are now illegal at some time in their history. I'm not defending Satanism (although form my point of view it's only marginally sillier than any other religion). I'm trying to point out that they decided not to have the class because of a Christian bias. I don't think they're afraid of inspiring their kids to do something illegal. They're actually afraid of Satan and witches.



I don't particularly want my kids to become Christians so I could object on the same grounds (and do object when it comes to having it introduced to my kids in any context other than study of history or sociology, etc.). I don't want my kids burning witches you know

However...



My point of view is similar, however I reserve the right to make that call about ALL religions. I consider them all bad. If you object to Satanism then you understand why other people might object to Satanism or any other religion for various reasons. Why sould Christianity get a free pass if you reserve the right to object to a different religion? It shouldn't.



You're catching on As I said in an earlier post, you can't fairly represent them all, so don't try. Have a generic holiday vacation. Have a generic holiday party. You can't object to neutrality, but you can object to the celebration of any specific religious holiday in public schools... like, say, Christmas or Satan Day.



I'd hardly call keeping religious practice out of public school "ripping it out" of the culture. There are places where it's appropriate (home and church) and places where it's not (public schools, government, and the public square).

Ok... updated information. I noticed a thread on this topic on the IIDB.... to say the least it's more right-wing christian propaganda. As it turns out, the teacher in question WAS using these quotes to prostelytize.

More detailed information...

hahaha, I love that quote. Good find Corwin, and I'm not surprised in the least. In this case the school absolutely made the right call.

Earlier, I said I was reserving judgement because we weren't seeing both sides of the story. I smelled a rat, and that link basically confirmed my suspicions. Lies of omission are still lies.

Correct.
Even in my initial post I wondered if the problem arose from how the teacher was using the doccuments, not the documents themselves. I suspect that a teacher who selectivly picked founding father quotes which were critical of religion and (packeged them together to teach the kids something like "They wern't all that religious and neither should you be" would have gotten into trouble too.

This is why I'd never make it as a history teacher

Same here.