Competition to SL

A lot of people care about what sets SL apart from any other environment. Second Life is not some 3d version of TSO. I know none of it impresses you, but SL has more in common with the World Wide Web than it does with TSO. What is fundamentally different about SL is what keeps so many people in SL, developing for SL, because there has never ever been anything close that allows the combination of creative freedom and potential that SL does.

Active Worlds was an early attempt at it, but it failed. SL perfected it - though there is still a long way to go. I am just really curious to see if another competitor will emerge, if for no other reason than to cash in on all of this. Where there is money tobe made, competition normally follows - but so far SL has had this field all to themselves for awhile.

TSO began its decline around that time, yes, or in July. For those interested in numbers of players in online games, check out:

www.mmogchart.com

I agree with what you said above about the game not being comparable in those terms, such as custom content and real life money, etc.

coco

P.S. Blaze and anybody - try to get THIS MUCH STRAIGHT. For me to read somebody who was saying TSO provided "an element of competition," when to look at the charts, any idiot COULD CLEARLY SEE that TSO was off and running when SL was barely out of the chute - that TSO had 105k players when SL had, like 2 k --

-- and any idiot can see that for me to come in and correct that is HARDLY REVOLUTIONARY, unless for some reason "element of competition" somehow has ZERO to do with subscriptions.

I do understand what Cristiano means, though, now that he has restated his point.

I would have to be a TOTAL IDIOT to agree with his previous comment, the one I corrected in the first place. And not even for you guys am I willing to be that.

Another P.S. May I also point out that - and mind you, I know this doesn't affect your points above, Cristiano, but allow me to point out that TSO STILL has more players than SL.

It may not have them for long, but to dismiss TSO as never having been any "competition" to SL - well, I doubt the Lindens ever took that view, or they wouldn't have succeeded as well as they have. Such arrogance generally doesn't breed success, does it.

well, not necessarily, in the case of Neopets, they have ads and are free to the user and have hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people playing.....

Yes, well I guess those earn income by ads or something . . . ? I'm not familiar with that type of game really.

The most closely similar games are the reality niche, comprised of TSO, There, SL, Rose, and maybe Sociolotron. There may be a couple I don't know about, or I'm forgetting - but that's what I think of as the competition in our little corner of the Internet universe.

coco

Middle Earth Online(or Lord of the Rings Online as it's now known) just might be a problem for SL

hehe! yeah, Neopets is not even close to what SL offers but in terms of competition they can't be stopped by any clones because they have grown to the point where they advertise on tv and sell products outside of the game. If SL is the best of the 'do anything' environments and has a hardcore fanbase, using Neopets as an example, they can steamroll over the competition....

When you say "competition" be more clear about what kind. There are many kinds of competition. For example marketplace versus content. TSO is most certainly competion to SL in the marketplace. Actually any online game brings a certain level of competion. But content-wide, TSO is nowhere near competition for SL! TSO is dreadful, a farce, and plain stupid. SL is ground-breaking. I know its a pain in the ass these technical issues. But cut them some slack, they are lightyears ahead of other similar games in their technology. Every new technology goes through this.

I've played many MMORPGs since I joined SL and have not found one that even remotely compares to SL.

There is an MMORPG called Mourning where you can craft items using applications such as 3DSMAX or Maya and have them imported into the world. But, like There, it has to be approved before it is seen in-world. It is live, but from what I've read in some of the posts in the forums people are having all sorts of problems with it. So its probably nothing for anybody to worry about.

http://www.realmsofkrel.com/

In my interpretation of the question - there is currently no competition for SL. I'm not talking about subscription numbers but the scope of the system and kind of capabilities it has.

And, as others have stated, I don't think games like WoW necessarily take users away from SL. I love both and they both serve a different set of interests for me which don't overlap too much. The RPGs come and go and are fun to run around in, but SL is more of an open-ended creative / social thing for me, which RPGs like WoW can never touch. I play WoW when I want to play a "game" but I log into SL to hang out with friends, be creative and more. Of course there are games to play in SL too but that's not nearly the only thing its about.


Hey that actually looks pretty interesting to me - I might check it out. But technical issues aside, it still looks to be specifically a fantasy game so it has a certain focus / limitation that SL will never have.

I don't think there is currently any direct competition to SL. None of the themed games will be able to compete with SL because of their inherent limitations. I think SL owes a large part of its success to its all encompassing nature. Literally EVERYONE can find something to enjoy in SL. The EQ folks have Dark Life, the FPS folks had UL (whatever happened to that anyway). the TSO folks have...well-the rest of SL, the Goreans have really started to make their mark in SL.

SL has something for everyone, and if you find that it doesn't have what you are looking for, you can always build it.

-Kiamat Dusk
Gorean Vampire Ninja Republican

My take on it is that the market for what SL does is pretty tiny in the world of online app users. I, for one, am not a gamer. I've never bought or played an online game, and I spend no time on in-world games in SL. It's about the people for me. I'm a socialite and a musician. I spent my online time chatting on DALnet in years back, and SL replaced that. I think LL took a big risk on a tiny slice of people, like me, that are interested in creating a community on a core platform. Even TSO is based on a standalone game. And the final chapter still isn't written on whether LL can make this a long-term profitable venture.

If I were an angel investor looking at proposals for something like SL, I'd look at the market, and I'm pretty sure I'd conclude there isn't room for another offering - yet. When I try to explain SL to friends and aquaintances, they don't get it. If it's not a game, then what is it? Why don't you just go to a bar? And I've got the added angle of being able to play music in here, a use of SL which is essentially unique to me so far (get your butt and sax back here, Moe), so mine is not a valid argument for the platform as a whole.

Most people that I know that are interested in building communities don't spend time online. They spend their time in real-life community building. SL hits a slice of people that are community-minded but are interested in doing it online and are willing to accept the limitations that SL presents.

I'm very glad that Philip and Linden Lab took a reach on this thing.

If I had money to invest, I would invest in SL.

I would never invest in EA, despite how much money they make for their stockholders. I think their leadership's view and attitude are flawed to the extent that their downfall is inevitable, even if it does take a long time to get there. Plus I dislike them intensely.

coco

A 3D ADULT RP Game. Nothin else said, I'm just sayin it's there. That's all.

Ahhh, the silence of TSO, the silent libraries full of people studying skills day in and day out...

Merwan: What you're saying in the second post there.... almost makes me think of Puzzle Pirates. :>

I signed up for McWorld of Burgercraft back in, like, 1976.

I'm still playing.

I die a little inside every time I raid the instance there... but I AM WINNING!

Neither TSO nor There have Mac clients, do they?

I won't believe another 3-D game/metaverse/MMOG will be competition to SL until it has a similar growth curve. What separates SL from the pack, IMHO, is that it has grown steadily at 20% a month. If only my RL business had done that!

Most MMOGs have a sharp growth curve, plateau out, and then flame out after a few years. I've never seen a steady growth like this... well, except the last time a game like SL came out... what was that called... oh yeah... the WWW.

-Flip

Lots of great comments in this thread already and I won't repeat what most of you have said. I only wanted to make a comment: As a brand new user to SL, I see such a vast opportunity here for expansion and user-created RP content that comparing it to WoW and other MMRPGs is, truly, comparing watermelons to pears.

The first thing that struck me was that my previous comments in other games about the lack of a true economy dealt mostly with the fact that a *real* capitalist economy requires innovation and creation to grow. And it requires growth to survive. Looting pre-programmed items with random stats, that were all added to the game in finite quantities by a small group of Devs is NOT 'innovation and creativity'. It's a Planned Economy.

SL has all the ingredients. If I had one wish, it would be that you would have in-game tools which make it easier to create and modify objects in the world. Not everyone is a Java programmer, and not all of us are 3D designers. I'm not talking about making it simple -- but for the people of above-average intelligence (most SL users from what I've seen) who have enough curiousity and determination, it shouldn't require a programming degree either

Once that happens -- in SL or in some other future competitor -- I think the world of virtual gaming will finally begin to crest the mountaintop. All that's left is neural sensors and biofeedback online

Cindy

The one thing about TSO that worked for it was you could play with an average PC and dialup connection. You have to remember that two years ago a broadband connection was not as common as it is now.

I dont think SL has any direct competition, per se, but anything that takes time away from it could be considered a threat. The thing that is interesting about SL, depending on how you spend your time, is that there is no "mission critical" consequences to not logging in. I think many people play other online games, in addition, to spending time in SL. Finding something to replace SL is not usually the goal.

Its sort of like saying you like swimming and riding bikes, there is room for both. And even if you decide to take up rock climbing, you will still have time to ride your bike.

I DO love that there are no mission critical consequences to not logging in. I can log in or not, or take a week off and it won't affect my game play. Not true of people with big businesses, I imagine, like Anshe, who probably have to be on all the time or have people working for them who can be.

Doesn't make me log in any less, either. I log in anyway. I log in because I want to, not because other people are depending on me or I need to maintain my place on a list. Been there, done that, got the TSO t-shirt. (Well, I wish I had a TSO t-shirt anyway.)

coco

Yes and you are quite popular. The question for me is why more musical or other creative events aren't happening. It is the perfect environment in some ways. Thanks for blazing the trail.

Great question. My guess is that SL first attracts the designers and programmers. The artists will be following. I can think of a couple of RL friends already who will go nuts when I tell them about this place.

Cindy

I have the SL t-shirt AND the poster, does that make me fic?

Back on topic, the closest competition to SL is ActiveWorlds, and even though AW has been online since 1995 SL overtook it on launch day.

The problem with compairing to games like WoW, EQ et al, is that those are games. SecondLife is not. Read my sig. It's not made up...

Hmmm.. TSO is the closest, but I still won't play it. I do play Lineage II but SL is my favorite because it fills the artistic and creative needs that I don't find in other games! Forget TSO, you can't be as open-ended and well, you are limited in more ways than in SL. Especially if the TSO physics are ANYTHING like Sims2, which it appears you can't put a roof over a pool.. or a porch... unless you use a cheat.