Cliques in Second Life

I thought I might not delve into this but since there is so much talk of it and so many allegations of cliquishness flying around I felt like I might comment on it.

Yes, there are probably many cliques in Second Life, either intentionally or unintentionally exclusive. This is simply part of human sociology, in groups of over say 6 people there is going to be a possible clique. Though as human nature shows itself in other aspects of Second Life, it is going to show itself in the social aspect as well.

I feel personally that there are more benefits to being an open accepting person, but that is not how all people think, and the sense of unity in a clique is often very strong.

We seem to complain about this problem within Second Life as if it is somehow unusual, as if it should not be a part of Second Life. But it is simply human nature, and its going to be there.

However, I have found most people to be very friendly in Second Life. There may be unintentional cliques in which people are simply used to their friends and such, so they do not expand their circle much beyond that..

It does seem there is quiet a bit of false arrogance in Second Life though that could otherwise not be there, but I guess that’s just the nature of this kind of game…

Indeed, if only everyone could see the obviouse.

I think everything you see in SL in social negativity is seen in the RL as well. Arrogance, cliques, they're all there.

Athel, I am not sure, what exactly you would like to tell us with that post. I don't think that 'We seem to complain' about that in SL more than in any other social context, where there usually are the same feelings towards cliques - by those how don't belong to them. Especially when you get the feeling, that the members of a clique get some benefits, you are not getting

And I very much doubt, that 'it should not be a part of Second Life'! The Lindens build Second Life very cleverly around the needs and wants of the human animal, which is a very social animal, whose behavioural pattern have evolved at a time when there were no larger groups than tribes.

BTW: What exactly do you think was the intention behind the 'groups' in SL. Yeah, I know, that there are a lot of envious rumours about 'inofficial groups', FIC, Blacklists and all that. But the fact, that there are official ones and people like to form them and to join them tells us a lot about groups, tribes and cliques.

Why should it be different in SL than in RL?

I wish I had a clique, then I wouldn't have to go to 30 different places to see my friends.

Yes Kim, I was saying "We seem to complain about this problem within Second Life as if it is somehow unusual, as if it should not be a part of Second Life. But it is simply human nature, and its going to be there." Basically the same thing .

I disagree, I think people are complaining more than usual and it is a hot button issue right now.

What I think does not necessarily have to be part of SL is all this false arrogance, thats not characteristic of every game I have been on or in communities, only ones that have that standard or atmosphere. So thats not necessary. Cliques will always form I feel though.

As far as what I think "groups" are for, I don't think groups are the same as cliques though they can be one in the same. The majority of groups in SL are groups just for those of special interest, but those arent the same as "cliques". There can be cliques within those groups. I think the Lindens made the group function just why there are like chess clubs or sports clubs in RL. lol. Just for people to gather together who have similar interests.

There are some family groups such as Mafia groups and such, but I don't think this is necessarily the cliqueshness that is being discussed, though that can be a part of these groups.

You just invented a new clique. Shame.

What? Everytime a poster whines a clique gets its wings?

Ryntha, I am not sure if you are suggesting that I had been trying to 'correct' Athel. If so, I am honestly sorry. I did not intend that. I just don't think that cliquishness is really a much bigger problem in SL than in comparable 'societies' or parts of societies in RL. I might be wrong with that opinion.

On the other hand, after reading the original post again, I think I simply misunderstood Athel's intented meaning of '... seem to complain about this problem within Second Life as if it is somehow unusual, as if it should not be a part of Second Life...' I apologize for that. English is not my native tongue. I should have been a more careful reader - and I should have thought on it a little longer before answering; which might often be a good idea in a lot of discussions .

As I already said to Ryntha, I think I misunderstood the true meaning of that sentence. I am truely sorry for that.

Hmmh. Sorry, that i have to ask again. But I want to be more careful this time. But, what do you mean with 'false arrogance', Athel?

I freely admit I'm in a "clique", though I'm hesitant to use that term. To me a clique signifies dealing with a certain group of individuals to the extent of excluding others. That being said, my "clique" is constantly together, yet laughing, joking, and generally having fun with other people.

I guess what I'm saying is, I enjoy the company of my little group, and will spend as much time as possible with them. If that's wrong, please explain to me exactly how.

Generally I mean that many people seem to develop a false arrogance in this game beyond what is necessary, either because of a lack of a First Life or their just egotistical in general.

I do not see this "false arrogance" prevalent in all online communities as much as it seems to be apparent in Second Life, either that or it is just more out here in SL. I see this false arrogance apparent when there is a general atmosphere of this kind of thing.

I don't know how to explain it precisely, its just here.

This is not meant to be an insult to any one specifically, but if you are insulted then maybe there is some truth in it for you.

WOW, all of this politically correct mumbo-jumbo is really disturbing. Let's not fall into slovenly naming these groups of SL residents "cliques", when they are really...


STREET GANGS!

Hmmh, I had meant my question a little bit more literally, Athel. And honestly, I still don't get it, what you see as signs of 'false arrogance' especially 'beyond what is neccessary'. Arrogance seems not to be a 'neccessary' attitude to me at all - either in RL or in SL. And I still don't understand, what this 'false arrogance' is - compared to 'true arrogance'?

I don't feel insulted (as a noob that's no member of any clique or group). I am not sure, I have a different opinion... I simply don't get it.

No arrogance is good, but I think the people who are arrogant in Second Life have even less of a reason to be arrogant in general. I think being arrogant over stuff in Second Life, a virtual world is "false". Or "false arrogance'

A couple of points.

First:

That's the most arrogant statement in this thread. Obviously.

Second, a lot of this thread depends on your definition of "arrogance." Perhaps the level of intelligence and creativity in Second Life is higher than in most online games, etc. That's not arrogance to say that, it only means that SL attracts a certain client base that has specific traits and expectations. Arrogance tends to go with intelligence and creativity, like a stable of talented writers for a magazine, or a department of university professors, or a group of talented entrepreneurs in a company. Hence you see a fair amount of arrogance among groups of people who are intelligent, creative, and often see the world in unique ways.

It can be a defense mechanism, because there's so much daily and long term pressure to conform. And because intelligent and creative people often put themselves "out there" in positions that make them vulnerable. So in that sense, I'd say arrogance-as-armor has its uses. But it's a fine balance, and without maturity, arrogance quickly becomes silly, self-involved, and destructive.

I think I understand now, what you mean with 'false arrogance', Athel - and I tend to disaggree.

Arrogance, in my opinion, is in itself not a 'good' attitude, if only because it erects barriers betweeen yourself and other people. There is a thin line between arrogance and justified pride, though. I think its ok if people are proud (but not arrogantly so) about something they have achieved, they have created. (On the other hand: pride about something that was given to me by birth, pride only because I am the member of a nation, my hair or skin has a specific color, because I am the member of a specific group etc. I cannot understand.)

I have come to SL only a few weeks before and honestly I have to say, that I found a lot of beauty here, wonderful creations by builders, terraformers, designers, scripters, businessmen (and - very much so - businesswomen). Buildings, landscapes, clothes, vehicles, inworld games, budding enterprises ...

In my opinion, the persons or groups that created these, have every reason to be proud of their achievements. That these creations exist in an digitally simulated virtual world in no way lessens the awe I am feeling. A lot of the greatest works of mankind, a lot of what we admire most of human achievements is not something 'material'. Musik, literature, philosophy, a lot or art ... is basically 'virtual'. You cannot grab it with your hands. But we admire the creators nonetheless.

So the 'virtuality' has got nothing to do with 'false'or 'true' or 'justified' arrogance (which I despise) or pride.

Ahh I would totally agree. There are many GREAT people here. But there are some overly arrogant ppl too. I feel myself I am a creative person, and I see that arrogance is often a defence mechanism. However, I feel that there is arrogance in SL more than usual. However, I do not feel as far as the cliques are concerned that that is as huge issue as it is being made out to be. Cliques exist in every community.

*smiles* Well, could be a matter of perception -- an example is this: if you're Melania and your husband gets a skyscraper built and tells you all self-assuredly about how he did it, you'd go, "WOW! He's so confident!" But if you're the dude dealing on the other end with Donald Trump, chances are... you'd go "What an arrogant @#$%!!!" (Insert: I'm a big Trump fan.)

Kinda like the "one man's junk is another man's treasure" or "one raver's epic house is another clubber's progressive trance" or even "OMG!!! YOU'RE NOT TALKING TO ME! YOU'RE SO STUFFY!" when in fact the IM cap of 25 has been reached and it was just a simple misunderstanding. Chinstrokers of the world unite... or not.

So whateva ya feel, if I get bad vibes from someone, I am friendly but I don't get too close if I feel I am treated uncomfortably on a repeated basis -- 'cuz there are just so many good people in here and I like to focus on that.

Well Torley I have not really encountered much false arrogance myself personally, but see the arrogance reflected in forum posts and people's attitudes from a third person perspective. I like most of the people I am around or go around. Most people are friendly.


I think there is an arrogant attitude prevalent among some in the game though that could be lessened a bit. As I was trying to point out it seems to show itself in SL community quiet a bit. There is no point in arrogance, it is all false. And I consider there to be even a lesser point about being arrogant about something in a virtual world. Though people can certainly be proud of their achievements, we have many amazing designers.

The people who are arrogant are the ones losing out as they lose a chance to learn about other people as well as they might be able to.

And again, with the cliques thing, I say people are just going to be drawn to those they already got close to. Cliques are part of human nature.

However, if some people are feeling excluded somehow in SecondLife then those people who are excluding are the ones missing out on learning about another interesting person.

I myself don't worry so much about the arrogance or otherwise in Second Life, as I have a pretty good First Life. But neither do other people even if their time is invested in Second Life, they can just stay away from those types of people as you said.

How dare you accuse ME of being arrogant, you lowly Human excrement! We cherubs are NOT arrogant. We are just naturally superior. That's because WE aren't descended from foul, unclean monkies like YOU are. So, I suggest you watch your tongues before you find yourselves revisited by the ancient plagues of Egypt!

/me gets out the baby power and bady oil. Time for a diaper change!

/*** Hands Hank the diaper rash cream (it might help)

Welp, this thread has officially gone down the drain....lol

Or, more specifically, down the toilet.

And, to sum up, when you are a member a circle of people, it's your friends. When you're not, it's a clique. People who complain about cliques are, in my experience, the people who most want to be in the clique they're complaining about.