How Teen and Main Grids will NOT be separate - and our objections are ignored

Yes, I agree, I think a lot of the issue can be dealt with by addressing the currency.

However, how do you deal with ebay sales? Very tricky.

At the very least, teens shouldn't be able to transfer L$ to people in the adult grid.

Nope, you're not. It's all me! hehe

I can't wait to login to the teen grid and set up a store and get lots of cash to GOM/IGE. OH YAY!

Briana Dawson, predator at large

Though you have to take into consideration that SL has the means to be FAR more graphic than other online games. The worst I can do in the sims is "play" on the love bed. But in SL with a little time in photoshop with a skin and a little time in poser with an animation we have double-anal fisting. What other game can you do that in?

Life.

(The real one, not the crappy board-game version)

Instant messenger and a web browser

Let's examine the term "game".

LL is not an office full of monkeys banging on $2 drum sets. It's an office of professionals with *lawyers*. I have full confidence in that they have surely looked at this from many, many angles and I'm also confident they want to have zero liability exposure. So....


Scripts do nothing of harm on thier own. LL is quite aware that SL has the capacity to create 'adult' objects - just look around. As such, they are going to be monitoring transfers and uploads to make sure objectionable materials are prevented from entering the system. Is it 100% fool proof? No. They are taking thier time to do what they can to keep it a proper 'teen' environment, which is probably why it hasn't been launched yet.


What's the deal with scripts? Seriously, I need you to explain your issue and worry with them in the teen grid, I feel I may be missing something here.



I think you're right on that. They won't be able to stop 100%, but they will try every sneaky trick to. Who says a Linden has to wear a Linden label when in the teen grid?

Here's what it boils down to for me:

LL *needs* to take as many precautionary steps as possible to greatly reduce the chance that adult content makes it into teen grid.

Parents need to realize that there is a chance that they might be exposed to such content, not only in teen SL, but on the internet in general. The teens stand a much better chance of being sheltered from that sort of content in SL, but there is still a chance.

If they are concerned about thier children being exposed to or acting out adult situations, they should unplug the computer forever and remove any/all Barbie and Ken dolls from the house.

Sounds good. Do you have a webcam?

If you only knew how many regretful moments of my life started with that very sentence, you'd fall down laughing.

Thinking about it, I suppose the problem of checking/monitoring scripts (and script-generated objects and maybe poses and animations), transferring in from the main grid will be no worse than looking for filth the teens will generate themselves after a bit.

Its more a question of whether the overall monitoring effort will be too costly and get skimped, than pinning that problem to infiltrated main-grid content specifically.

I think we need to stop the Lindens blithely promicing that no main-grid objects can get across. Accept that it's going to happen, right from day one, and deal with it sensibly and without hysteria.

If the teens can get money in and out to RL, joint commercial ventures will quickly develop, and be significant in both economies.

If money can't be got out until graduation, there will be less, but some teens will still enjoy non-cash investment by main-grid adults, and build up empires.

And why not, I suppose ? Can't prevent it anyway.

I'd just like to see an end to all this naive talk about absolute separation. Simply aint so.

Lindar, you're absolutely right - we *don't* know.. either way.

They have told us that objects will not be allowed to migrate - to me, that means a different asset server, but what do I know?

These are good questions and ones that should be posed to LL.

See there is a problem with how this is worded .. the first part makes a lot of sense

But the second part is inflamatory .. it implies as parents we shouldnt be able to choose for our kids to not play Second Life on the teen grid becuase theres no safe place under the sun

parents are entiltled to say no and do not deserve constant badgering when they do.

I understand the arguements for and against Teen SL .. but once you say there will be a Teen SL people should let the parents choose for their kids and be done with it.

As i said in my previous post think Teen SL is going to happen anyway. So we are at that point.

It wasn't meant to sound inflamatory at all. It was meant to say that if a parent is *so* concerned about this or that happening on the internet or in SL, remove that chance by unplugging the computer. The parents have the ultimate control.

*laugh* I bet lots of us have some horror stories (and no, I'm not telling mine!)

"Content Uploads
Teens will only be allowed to upload textures that are appropriate for a "PG" area. We will be monitoring uploads to make sure that there is no inappropriate or offensive content uploaded into teen accounts or transferred to other teens on the grid."

That would work if the kids were uploading say 5 images a day with only 15 kids on the grid. It is my feeling however that there is no way for LL to manage 1k worth of texture uploads in an hour. How will they accomplish this? What is LL standard of PG? Are we farming out CS to india now? There is no way they could afford to staff enough ppl 6 months from now to view each and every texture before it is uploaded.

I have several issues with all of this but it always leads back to the very same thing: "When I joined SL it was for adults only, it was one of the key reasons I joined SL." So what I am hearing is "sorry folks the we need more of a subscription base, more income" Which then leads me to question the financialy stability of LL.

It is abundantly clear to me at least that there are many many adults who do not want kids in SL. Yet they are going ahead with this anyway.

"Player run, player influenced world?" Sure it is, as long as you agree with LL.

I am sure you could find mine by googling "big black sluts" or something. *weep* WHAT WAS I THINKING!

My thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em ....

I've been working with computers since 1976 (go ahead, do the math) - and to think that
this will be a completely separate entity is laughable. Way back when, there was a little company called Q-Link. (You may know it by its new name, AOL.) A 16-year old hacked into the system, causing major havok. He knew more about their software and how it worked than they did, and discovered ways to do things they'd never thought of Yes, that was a while ago, and software has become much more sophiasitcated - and so have the kids.

Next comes the sex. Let's face it, there are some kinky folks in SL - and they have every right to BE kinky if that's what they want to do. But does anyone really want any kid exposed to that? And please, don't give me the "it's your kid, you watch him" thing - if nothing else, this IS a community, and as a community, we all have responsibilities.

Ain't no way this is going to stay completely separate. Some kid, some how, will find a way to cross over,and naturally tell all of his/her friends immediately. I'm going on record right here, right now saying BAD MOVE, LL. Bad move for the current adult residents, bad move for kids, bad move for their parents, and ultimately, bad move for YOU.

Catherine and Claire

Hear, Hear

The separateness and to a lesser extent the censorship, are a reassuring illusion.
Anything the kids can make, except very compicated prim objects, our maingrid stuff can be easily imported. Full and serious content monitoring, keeping up with creation, will quickly become too burdensome. Even prim objects can be auto-generated by uploaded scripts from the main grid.

You put it better than I could, Claire. That's it precisely.

And from all the other threads, and the overwhelming vote, I think that must be the majority view too.

Juro, if you think carefully about the easy cut-and-paste way of transferring assets which I have identified, and which no-one has refuted, you will see that a different asset server does nothing to diminish it or make it more difficult at all. The uploads work if the teen grid is based on the moon.

I have always assumed the asset servers will be totally separate - I should darn well hope so !

I just can't shake your faith in the authority figure who says "this will not be allowed", can I , J ?

Even if its technically impossible to not-allow it.

Me, I eat authority figures for breakfast. Scrumptious !

You can get married at 16 in the UK (not sure what the law is in the US on this). It seems totally ridiculous that people are worrying about the possibility of 16 and 17 year old people being in SL, if they can be doing in RL the things which they may see in SL.

There are a lot of other things you can do below 18 - driving a car, serving in the army, having a baby - which put the teenager at a good deal more, physical, risk than playing SL.

Most kids who are abused, even in the age of the internet, know and trust their abuser in RL.

I am not saying that there are not dangers inherent in the internet or in SL. In some ways my opinion is that although contact with adult material is less likely in a very controlled junior SL, the dangers that teens will be targetted by predators is actually greater. They will know where they all are. At the moment, there are a significant number on the adult grid, behaving like adults.

I agree that it is impossible for Linden Labs to live up to their promise of excluding adults, if those adults come into the teen grid on a valid teen account, any more than they can exclude teens from coming into the adult grid on an adult account. However, all the angst about that seems to ignore that most teenagers with access to the internet can put themselves at risk in ten thousand different ways - and that they may choose this or not. My children receive a lot of the same spam I do, including the XXX rated material.

If the parents concerned trust their children to SL, I think we should.
Cali

If you trust your teen with a car, I would sincerely hope you can trust them with the internet.