Wipe or NO Wipe?

I've gone back and forth on this, but the more I think about it...yeah, wipe 'em. It seems fairest.

== danny d.

I've given this subject about as much thought as it deserves. And I've decided -

Sorry, that's as much thought as it deserves.

Yes I just did my first $25L rate. Wanted to make sure it was working, however; that will be my last rating.

to those who vote no lets look at it this way.

imagine you are a builder youre not very social but you love build and are fantastic at it. your building rating is nothing stellar because well at the momment ratings are meaningless. the top people in the building rating, most of them couldnt build their way out of a paper bag. honestly is that fair? shouldn't the people who have amazing building talent be the leaders in this building rating? probably without a wipe they never will be the people on top will remain there as long as this 25L a rating is in place.

I thought this thread was about something else...

And was pleasently surprised to find it wasn't.

Yes. Even though most of my money comes from Stipends from ratings, I still say Yes.

I doubt it will fix everything, it may not even help, but hey, might as well.

Wipe them.

Just like ebay ratings, older ratings shouldn't matter so much. I would love to see all old ratings wiped after say, 6 months. This would also solve the neg rating abuse being a permanent dent on your record

Agreed. It's an economics issue. My trial week wasn't even up when Phil posted the changes. I don't get to derive any/much benefit from the rating system period. People who already have high ratings have already and will continue to get money out of them. (Even if it is less than before) At 25L/rate I'm not ever gonna get to +500 like lots of older players have. I totally agree that these ratings represent some social standing and achievement, and therefor should still be seen in profiles, but to keep paying money on them creates a definite 1st and 2nd citizen divide.

If we're gonna keep the ratings then we shouldn't get ANY money on it. (Tho nobodys gonna pay for 'em at that point and the popularity contest will end) If there's still gonna be economic benefit for those with good ratings, then it needs to be zeroed very soon or old ratings need to be effectively porportioned into new ratings.

All of these changes are being made because the economy/player base keeps expanding. All of us newbies and all of the newbs that come after us are going to be getting by on our merits alone. The people who've been in-world long enough to get the very high ratings have already benefited from them and have already established themselves. There's a defenite possibility of having an aristocracy that is simply given money that latecomers will never get no matter how hard they work or how much they pay if we don't revamp the ratings.

After i get home and check my damage..lol

Hiro Pendragon, I think your ideas great. In-fact I said some thing similar in another thread. I don't know why they keep creating this thread.

My version was keep a record of the total ratings, as sl currently tracks. But to do the ratings pay out based on rating traffic. a temporary number, where rating would only last for a certain amount of time.

wipe...sometimes
no wipe....never!

my preference....Bidet.
http://www.juscuzz.com/

Wipe them. I've been an advocate of this since Beta. The system is constantly gamed (though in the end most of the people trying it find out it's not worth it I think), creates all kinds of hard feelings and trouble, and is a design flaw in that you can directly adversely effect anothers experience with the game mechanics. You can be neg'd for no reason at all and there is nothing you can do about it, so of course you will be motivated to retaliate with your own means to get some satisfaction. Lindens won't even respond to reports of ratings abuse.

Failing a wipe, just remove negs. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Or go to the forums. Let people remove their positive ratings if they wish, returning them to "say nothing" status. But the ability to neg somebody for no reason at all, which happens ALL the time, is just blah.

I have heard one of the biggest groups in SL call for everybody to neg an individual, and many replied they'd do it right away. Whether or not the person deserved the original neg is besides the point; you can use them to gang up on people, people do it, and they shouldn't be able to.

I'm so for this I would be willing to contribute money to see them gone.

Yeah, go ahead, wipe my ratings. The crazy socializers will still rate mine the crap out of the system, and those of us who play it fair will remain at zero for months.
Like Bob, I dont give out ratings like candy, and the ratings I do have took me a long time to accumulate. Most people who rated me arent even around anymore.
Wiping the ratings will only serve to castrate those who actually have some talent, as opposed to those who indulge in rate mining for the hell of it.
Charging more money solves nothing. You can buy money on GOM, it's pretty cheap.
You can still host rating parties. You can still pay people to rate you.

You know, several people have posted very thorough explanations of why the stipend and the rating bonus are not "welfare" and I have not seen one decent rebuttal. If you are opposed to the ratings bonus, fine, there are plenty of good reasons to oppose it, but if you keep calling it welfare then all you are doing is demonstrating (edited).

I prefer to wipe. Those who do not wish to wipe end up rather ripe.

Thing is, ratings were only bumped up to $1 per rate after version 1.2 - back in the good old days, they cost $1 no matter how many categories you picked - you could triple rate for $1. Does that means my ratings are worth less than post-1.2 ratings?

I have yet to hear a very thorough and valid reason why it is NOT considered "welfare". Can you post those reasons or link them for me?

Just wipe the damn things. I fail to see what the big deal is, anyway, since LL is just going to nuke the entire ratings system eventually, anyway...

Not to mention the fairness issue. The cost of giving ratings has increased by 25x for all players. Incoming players can never get rated to the same level as existing players. It's a fundamental change to the functioning of the system itself. Arguments relating this to wealth or property that players have built up to this time are fallacious at best.

My question is... regardless of whether or not it's "welfare"... without stipend, where does this "SL economy" come from? I daresay no rational player is calling for the end of stipends entirely, but I've heard a few irrational ones call for it.

LL's position has historically been that since we pay money for access to this world we are entitled to a few free lindens with which we can enjoy it.
I think that in the post 1.2 world this doesnt make a lot of sense, since people that pay LL thousands of dollars dont get more money than 10-dollar monthlies.

If they are wiped... I better get my money back

all the rating i recieved had a reason behind them.... thats a lot of work and effort to be erased...

Yes, Wipe and repay the 'given' ratings in L$
-OR-
Devide everyone's current ratings by 25 and round up.

Reason cost-to-rate was increased / rating bonuses were decreased: To prevent too much money from being "printed" into the economy and causing inflation.

Result of cost-to-rate increase: People feel that, since any new ratings given cost 25 times more, they are more valuable than older L$1 ratings.

Perceived unfairness:
-- players have been garnering rating points through any means to get bigger bonuses
-- older players who have built up large numbers of ratings (naturally) could never be caught up to with the new higher price

What's to gain:
-- new players with few ratings, which vastly outnumber the older players, would benefit most (so any poll will be in favor of the change)
-- old stains of negative ratings would be gone

Other feelings people have on the issue:
-- reading someone's ratings doesn't present the information it was meant to, instead the totals, when combined with the player's creation date, only tell how much time they spend socializing
-- the new increase in price will fix this a little but... it will still be "gamed"
-- the new increase in price will fix this a little but... it still doesn't do what it was meant to
-- the new increase in price will fix this a little but... the older ratings still stand and may have been gamed

A few facts/observations:
-- the incentive to "game" the system is the ratings bonus the points provide
-- people gaming the system can accrue rating points faster than those who earn them legitimately
-- even at the higher price, people will still game the system, there will just be fewer of them
-- sometimes it can be hard to tell a "gamer" from someone that just does a lot of socializing (in other words, the blame is sometimes on the rater, not the ratee, for the apparent gaming)

Results of wiping:
-- The higher bonus tiers will immediately go to the "gamers" and not the people who may deserve a bonus for greater contributions to Second Life, since the gamers can build up points faster
-- this sudden and complete victory for the gamers will cause even more dislike and mistrust of the ratings system
-- the call will go out to completely unlink the system from ANY monetary award
-- more people will complain about the loss to their income, the newer players and socialites in particular

Impractical solutions:
-- wipe and convert the ratings to L$, which would cause INSTANT inflation

Other possible solutions:
-- unlink the bonus from the ratings NOW, average that bonus and give the same to everyone (to prevent a sudden DE-flation effect), adjust he bonus as needed to control the economy
-- divide all pre-change ratings by 25
-- scrap the whole thing and have NO ratings at all until a new system is put in place in 1.6
-- do nothing and just BLOODY WAIT for the new system


Oops. I think I lost my objectivity there at the end.