What is going on?

Candie, in just a few words, I didn't mean to say you exploited the system; I meant to say he pointed a finger at someone because he thought they were exploiting the system. Backtrack, read into my tone, realize that I wasn't being slanderous or suggestive about your situation.

Eggy--wasn't even saying that you, specifically, were taking part in Americana's exploit, but that exploitation has run amuck in this game from the very beginning. Maybe I should have been more clear in my last post--okay, a lot more clear--a problem we have right now is that Candie's situation is only an "exploit" in the perspective of some peoples' minds, it's totally subjective. And yet there's blatant slandering of her character. On the other hand, an entire themed sim survived on an exploit that could, without a doubt, be deemed an exploit--subjectivity irrelevant--and yet there was no slandering of character, there.

What is there to debate at this point? A. Is having more than one account an exploit? B. Did Candie do anything innately wrong? C. Was there any preempted knowledge that what she was doing was inappropriate? D. Why do we criticize some but leave others untouched?

Man, I'm just babbling. So much is going on lately, it's impossible to stay on track--... Well, whatever. That's my post, unedited.

Thank you, Dae. I'm pretty upset right now, but that helps. I didn't mean Americana about me. I meant what Eggy said in a different thread. I thought that was what you meant actually.

"money in land is money in the bank"
"if you're low on cash you can do 4 events over the weekend and get $2000"
For god's sake candie, be honest to yourself, since apparently you cant be honest to everyone else.
I dont have any agenda here, there's a lot of old timers who share my opinion of you. One can only hear announcements like "BUILD XYZ WITH CANDIE APPLE!!!111" so many times before getting sick to death of it.
Everyone knows very well why people run events. It's for the dwell, the ratings, and the linden money. Take all the rewards away for a month and see how many people keep doing events.
If you truly want to do events that add something to the community, then spend 5 minutes thinking about something remotely interesting or original, instead of repeating the same tired old crap ad nauseum.
The only times I ever had events, they were always different and original ideas I had come up with.
Nowadays land banking is both impossible and irrelevant, but back in the day some people in SL made a shitload of money off of it.
Excuuse me for thinking that someone who publically recommends sneaky tactics such as getting multiple premium accounts to pile up linden bucks and get free land is exploiting a loophole.
Of course you havent violated the ToS. That's the whole definition of a loophole. Well the loophole has been closed and they have now limited how many accounts you can have, just like they limited how many events you can have. Which wouldnt prevent you from using other accounts to hold more events than you're normally allowed, or getting a friend to do it, or whatever.
Personally I think LL should not reward events by default, rewarding only those who are original and actually involved some creativity.
I'm still waiting to hear just how many accounts you had, what noble goal motivated you to create them, and why did our EVIL Linden overlords sadistically tortured you.
Everything else will just be your usual drama and ad hominem attacks.

why kick a dead cat?

Yup. And back in beta candie used to whine about it just like me. Then she decided to do something about it.

Gibson abused the -1000 cap too. There was an awful lot of noise about it daemioth, you just dont remember it. There was a whole lot of crap about rate mining before you and I were "born", back in early beta.
It is true that the system has always been exploited by those willing to study the rules in detail.
The problem is that most systems are built around the assumption that people are innocent and will follow a normal behavior, instead of studying all the little details that enable them to uncover loopholes.
My argument is that of intent. I'd say that most people who bother to learn all they can about the rules are probably up to something. In the computer biz, we call the people who do this sort of studying "hackers"...

Having more than one account is different from having more than 5, and it's certainly different depending on your intent.
Candie stated publically that premium accounts paid for themselves if you piled up the linden bucks and sold them, getting you 512m of free land in the process. This is a blatant case of a loophole.
Even if she wasnt using it herself (hah!), you certainly shouldnt teach other people how to exploit loopholes.
Furthermore, it is my personal opinion that getting more than one lifetime membership (when they were available) was wrong, since it deprives other people of the possibility of having that membership.
People who would use it for nobler purposes than circumventing land tier payments.

Candie,

I'm not attacking you. You, yourself posted about abuses and manipulations of the system using alt accounts, you asked someone to point out where you had used, abused or manipulated the system. I just pointed out one public one of which I knew. You said that you never manipulated the system; but after the first developer's award is when "Pepper" received a rather high developer award -- for simply holding land that had numerous events on it.

After that award, "Pepper" was retired, in your own words; and the manipulation never occurred again.

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"money in land is money in the bank"
"if you're low on cash you can do 4 events over the weekend and get $2000"
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Yes, and? I know a lot of the Candie bashing stems from me speaking out against those old timers you mention and their exploits. Exploits were far faster and easier for generating megabucks than working for it like I recommended. And like I did.

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One can only hear announcements like "BUILD XYZ WITH CANDIE APPLE!!!111" so many times before getting sick to death of it.
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Sick to death of hearing how many times I taught newbies to build? oh yeah. That was awful of me to do. And it must have made sick people who were so immersed in doing for themselves and building their empires that they'd never have dreamed of taking the time to teach newbies to build.

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Everyone knows very well why people run events. It's for the dwell, the ratings, and the linden money. Take all the rewards away for a month and see how many people keep doing events.
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Aaaahhhh, Eggy. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Nobody had to take away the rewards from me. I kept up doing just as many events. On my own. Teaching newbies. for no rewards. it was the right thing to do. to give back to the community. thanks so much for bringing that one up.

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If you truly want to do events that add something to the
community, then spend 5 minutes thinking about something remotely interesting or original, instead of repeating the same tired old crap ad nauseum.

The only times I ever had events, they were always different and original ideas I had come up with.
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Well Eggy, I did my best. And as a matter of fact, I ahve indeed done some very original and creative events. But I stuck to doing events that people told me they enjoyed the most, and asked me to do over and over. The Second Life Lottery, Bingo, my classes.

I was never trying to impress you or anyone else Eggy. Obviously from your ego stroking sentence there you need to impress others. I don't.

I like to help people, give them what they want, get together with people, laugh and have a good time.

I'm not here to impress a soul, you least of all.

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Nowadays land banking is both impossible and irrelevant, but back in the day some people in SL made a shitload of money off of it.
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Yes I remember all the land bankers, I know how they did it, and why they did it. And whereas you cleverly tried to twist my words, Eggy, you just can't change the fact that the whole reason I gave that financial class was because some of those old timers you mention were screaming loud and long that you had to cheat and exploit to make money. And I was damned if I was going to let that stand. I held my class on making money without exploiting the system. I had my say. It pissed off a lot of exploiters because it put them on shaky ground with their excuses. Those old timers you're so enamored of.

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Excuuse me for thinking that someone who publically recommends sneaky tactics such as getting multiple premium accounts to pile up linden bucks and get free land is exploiting a loophole.
===================
Excuse me but who are you speaking about? I never did any such thing. Please, I know it's hard, but try to stay anchored to reality, k?

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Of course you havent violated the ToS. That's the whole definition of a loophole. Well the loophole has been closed
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Excuse me, what loophole are you talking about? I used no loophole, Eggy. Try to get that through your head.

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and they have now limited how many accounts you can have,
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Indeed, which has nothing whatever to do the drivel your pouring forth into the forum.

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just like they limited how many events you can have.
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ummmmm excuse me again? who limited how many events i can have? you're really losing it, Eggy. Or just deliberately seeing how much libel you can post before you get shut down or sued.

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Which wouldnt prevent you from using other accounts to hold more events than you're normally allowed, or getting a friend to do it, or whatever.
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Ummm true, but I never had the nubmer of events I did limited, nor did I ever use another account to hold an event. I know plenty of people who do. I'm not among them. Get a friend to do it? I dont' have a clue what you mean by that one.

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Personally I think LL should not reward events by default, rewarding only those who are original and actually involved some creativity.
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I agree. Back in the day when I was doing events and doing them heavily, I put a lot of time and energy into planning and executing my events. Now people just have dwell parties and raffles.


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I'm still waiting to hear just how many accounts you had, what noble goal motivated you to create them, and why did our EVIL Linden overlords sadistically tortured you.
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and this is your business because? Not having any facts hasn't stopped you from spouting off till now. Just keep on spouting. It's kinda fun watching you make a complete ass of yourself. And believe me, I need a few laughs right now.

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Everything else will just be your usual drama and ad hominem attacks.
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too funny coming from the all time king of drama and personal attacks

I love it when people attack someone and then say "I'm not attacking you".

What was the manipulation, Lynn? What did I do? Did you not read my post? I was cmpletely open and honest.

And no, that is not when Pepper was 'retired'. It was later, and for the reason I said. Not the reason you made up.

How dare you make up this entire senseless story and post it as if it were fact, slandering me in the process.

WTF was the manipulation???? Ask Colin. I was working with him during that time to set up my land for when groups were implemented. The group being at his recommendation to make land management easier.

And if you'll notice, sweetie, groups don't get dev incentive awards. Try to use some logic here. If I was hot on dev incentive awards that I supposedly 'manipulated' the system, then why would I group my land knowing I couldnt' get dev incentive that way.

IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE. THINK.

You asked for one instance or example of where your alt accounts were used as a manipulation or abuse of the system.

Intentional or not, that is one.

you might want to look back in the forums at all the posts about it. posts by people other than myself. the post you refer is my first on the topic and was not teaching or recommending anything to anyone. it was recapping old news.



Ok, Eggy. Try to understand this. From the very day that 1.2 was announced, Lindens, including Philip himself, were recommending getting additional lifers as the most cost effective way to get land in 1.2.

In fact I know for sure there is one Linden post about it, and I believe there may be 2.

How??? How does that manipulate or abuse the system?

I WAS WORKING WITH COLIN TO SET MY LAND UP IN VARNEY FOR A GROUP.

I DID NOT MANIPULATE OR ABUSE THE SYSTEM.

You want an example of manipulation and abuse? it's what you're doing right now, lady.

Just to shout out my differ in opinion--I think events should go rewarded, and at every SL Basics I tell people hosting events is a great way to make money. Not everyone builds to make a buck, not everyone land barons, not everyone scripts, etc. Some of us like to host events, we're personable people and we cash in on it. Isn't that how life works? You find the things you're good at and you use them to your advantage.

Why do you care what the event content is, or if it's 'helping the people'--events are made so that people can have fun, and, unless no one attends Candie's events (and whose ****ing business is it that you inquire how many people attend her events or if they appreciate her 'originallity') who the hell cares that she's doing it for the money? Damn straight people would stop hosting events if they weren't funded; this isn't a game where we're supposed to twiddle our fingers and poof out pops 750L. This game actually requires something of us; you don't like the events, don't attend them, but don't slander them either, because you haven't hosted any hot ones lately just the same.

SL has had lucrative ventures in-game for as long as the game has existed, and out of game as of recently but with the support of the Lindens just the same. Don't pretend we're all here for charity, we're here to be productive in any way we see fit. How we go about that is irrelevant if it isn't hurting anyone else.

My $0.02 on this thread:

All issues of using alts to game the system aside, please don't attack people (by which I mean Candie) for hosting repeat classes. I have a deep admiration for the dedication it takes to handle students day after day, week after week, and effectively teach them how to use the tools they are given. If you honestly do not appreciate the value of classroom events in SL, try attending a few, and then teaching a few. If that doesn't work, think about how much concentrated patience it takes to handle a classroom full of students in the real world.

From my experience most folks loved Candie's classes and events. There were some people who appeared to be jealous of her success back then, and of her popularity. As for profiting from all those events, there were many times I saw Candie use her 'share' of the event money as further prizes for the attendees. Often she didn't make a profit at all.

<<"if you're low on cash you can do 4 events over the weekend and get $2000">>

What is wrong with this? The only thing that would be wrong would be if the events were like some of the non-events I have been to, where someone is clearly using the event
only to make money.

Candie's events were always lively and interesting, and she is an excellent teacher. So far as I am concerned, if she was short of money she could do 40 events over the weekend, and I wouldn't begrudge her a penny.

Had she run events purely to make money, she would not have put in the obvious hard work of preparation that went into them.

Thank you, Candie, for the help you have given newbies, and the enjoyment you have given the rest of us with your excellent events.