I've had it too...

What appeared to me as a way cool technology turns out to be nothing more than a seedy red light district, a poorly developed RPG (if you can call Darkwood an RPG), and bingo.

What a waste of technology, time and my money.

Frakly, I think it's over for SL if Linden can't see the commercial, educational and other similar potential.

and you are...?

They see more potential than you think... trust me on this one.

The main problem at the moment is implementation whilst trying to keep everybody happy at once (an impossible task).

Just calm down man, they know what they have, it's just a matter of supply and demand that will sway how SL will prosper.

I thought about ignoring this post, but I can't let this one go without a comment or two...

(not intended to be flames or personal btw)

(bah! I hate feeling like I need a disclaimer )

SL is still very much in it's infancy. It was released, what, less than 6 months ago?

Most of the content is player created. We, the players decide what is popular in SL, not the Lindens. If you don't like what is currently available, come up with your own ideas! Or help the creators to make their things better.

I think that Linden can see the commercial, educational and whatever potential. Right now though, their focus has to be on getting the technology right for those things to be attractive. I forsee businesses hiring sims (maybe even funding servers) for virtual meetings, especially now in-game content copyright is kept by the creators. Not so sure about a virtual DIY place, but it's a possibility

Personally, I think the potential is staggering, and watching SL grow and evolve is incredibly exciting. I think Darkwood is an amazing project (and is still under development IIRC, so is bound to feel rough); Hamlets' Book Clubs are bringing RL authors into the world - who knows what that could be a springboard to? SL-exclusive novels where the author only distributes their books from an outlet on a sponsored sim? Whatever happens, I'll be here watching and, more importantly for me, being part of it.

Sorry you don't feel the same way.

How on earth would letting a corporation or a school use SL for whatever purpose they see fit improve the current users' experience?
SL is about actively producing content, not passively consuming it. If you arent a creative person who would rather do than watch you are probably not going to enjoy your stay here unless youre an avid socializer willing to pay for a 3D version of AIM.
Think of SL as everything2.com - in e2 there is also an overwhelming amount of "seedy" articles, but it is only a reflection of what we humans are.

Well, apart from the cash inflow to LL making it possible for more development and more/better hardware, server farms in Europe/Asia/Austrilasia, 24/7 Liason availabilty ...

Indirect, yes, but it would help.

ooh, harsh indictment of SL, there Power. You know that no one is forcing you to pay to play here?

I can sort of understand the crop of recent threads where people are saying they have had it because of grief or whatever, but to just dismiss this incredible technological achievement based on the fact you don't like the current user created content is perhaps a little naive.

SL is young. It is destined to grow, mature, evolve, change shape and become so much more than the sum of its server boxes. If you don't think you can stick around to be an integral part of that evolution, then that's your call.

Personally, at the rate SL is being developed, with features sometimes being implemented the same week they are suggested, and with Havoc 2 implementation imminent, I don't think we'll be waiting very long at all to see some major enhancements.

And I don't think you can fairly dismiss the tools because you lack the imagination to do anything cool with them.

SL is a representation, on a tiny scale, of the internet. The internet started out laggy, relatively uninteresting, and once it got into the public eye there was a lot of seedy content. Now, it's a mindbogglingly huge entity that pervades every part of our lives, providing us with information, connectivity, and power.

I don't think I'll be logging into SL to manage my bank account anytime soon, nor will I be showing up for a First Life job interview on Second Life. But, five, ten, fifteen years down the line.. who knows.. And all because there are companies willing to take risks.

Some MMOs these days have adult content added by the creators themselves, dystopian future stripclubs come to mind. On Second Life, such content only exists because there is a demand for it, and people who wish to create and maintain it.

Furthermore... Dark Wood / Dark Life is in construction. Dark Life is presently the beta version of a player-made, in-game, MMORPG. I think it look and plays better than a lot of the small party MMO's coming down the pipes in this glutted market. =) But it isn't done.

(Oh, and SL is past the 'uninteresting' part of the evolution, IMO )

I can't decide if 'Jack' is just a really well-placed troll, or if he believes what he is saying.

To put your lack of vision in context 'Jack', consider the crazy idea in 1963 to hook computers together with a phone line. This became the first two nodes on arpanet, later to become the internet, and was accomplished by Larry Roberts and Thomas Marill.

I'm sure if you were there, you'd tell them how slow phone line transfer of data is, and how the benefits of connecting two large, sluggish computers hardly seemed worth it.

I'm glad you weren't there, 'Jack', because now I have the internet to enjoy, and by extension Second Life. Of course there is a downside, it also enabled the delivery of your poorly composed post.

there is a lot of potential here but the lindens aren't going to implement most of it. we are.

the sl university project is/was quite exciting. i work at a college that has just started web-based classes. my second life trial was specifically geared to determining that an online virtual environment could really function as a classroom in a community atmosphere. i think it can.

i say is/was because i've just discovered the university threads and am not sure what the current status of the project is. i'll teach some "how to upgrade your system" or home networking courses if i can get in touch with the right people.

I hate to say this, and its not like I am a troll, its not like I haven't done IT ALL already, but Jack is right to a large degree.

I really think SL has taken a very big turn in the chat room direction. I think that the tax and reward system has pushed it in that direction too.

I don't think Jack has a lack of vision, maybe he has vision, and sees where things fall short.

Jack's sort of post seems to incite alot of defensiveness from inworld players, which most always turns into flames. Is that anyway to treat a stranger? A noob? But it is the sort of post that the Lindens should listen to.

fen-

Burning your computer, trashing your kazaa-riddled drives.


But seriously.

His 'cons' were just enough to stir the blood, with nothing positive to say. This is along the lines of a 'just a suggestion' troll frequently seen on slashdot, where the poster makes a few contentious observations but offers no real balance to the issue.

I should've ignored it, but hey, its Wednesday and I'm on lunch.

Jack has made some excellent points... I've noticed the same thing. All this amazing technology and thousands of hours of work by Linden Lab, and what is it used for? Fart noises, party games, and LOLing.

Alright, that's a little extreme. I enjoy the games and chat as much as the next person. But there is a problem with SL, in that the people who are capable of adding new interactive content -- i.e., scripters -- are hampered financially.

I'm not going to turn this into a discussion about taxes. All I'd like to see is more Linden-sponsored projects that lead to *interactive* builds. As far as I know, all we have to do is apply for sponsorship.

The Second Life world is user-built, so it's up to us to keep it from degenerating into "There". LOLing is good, too, but we need more actual *stuff*.

I don't understand any post that puts down the content in SL since that content is created and placed by the players. If the Lindens had set things up, built empthy buildings and designated what is allowed to go on in each empty building, then I could see it.

They didn't do that though. Aside from a few builds, the Lindens gave us an empty world. Virtual dirt, trees and water. One person may disagree with what everyone else in the world has built, but it's not wasted technology. If the builds and all in the world were unwanted and wasteful, then I don't think the world would be as full as it is now.

SL is the way it is because thats the way the population wants it. Rather than sound bitter about what everyone else has accomplished, try to create what you think would be good to have in the world.

I feel I need to repeat that.

If you don't like what the others players have built, feel that it's a waste, instead of being bitter and complain as if it's the Lindens fault, which it isn't, instead apply yourself creating what you think would be a useful build.

Ok Jellin,

You are right, one should not put down others builds. There are very many REALLY cool builds in SL. What I got from the original post was less of a put down of what was currently inworld as to what could be done with the technology.

There is quite a difference to what inworld players can do as opposed to what the developers can do with the underlying code.

Jack's post didn't sound bitter to me, but how clearly one perceives inflection of the written word, unless the author is extremely talented, is at best hard.

Cubey is right, SL needs more "stuff". Not sure what that is tho. And it might not be my job to figure it out. I am the customer. SL is a service that I buy. Not everyone wants to be part of the development team.

It's great to write a book, but sometimes you just want to watch a movie.

fen-

I rather enjoy that this place is a mesh of what each person brings instead of "just" being commercially driven or educationally driven.

If this game is to fail Power it will be because we the people of this world fail it. Each of us brings our own likes and dislikes, our own ways of enjoying the time spent here and our own goals on what we want to get out of the experience.

We each bring ourselves to this game and that is what ultimately makes it the wonderful place that it is.

Where is this seedy red light district I keep hearing about? I must not explore enough. I have yet to stumble across it I guess.

SL is unlike any other MMOG in one hugely important way... a way that's going to be frustrating for a lot of people in the near term, and less so as the world fills with interesting content and things to do. In an MMORPG everyone has the same potential. If you put in your time and do the quests and spend a few thousand hours on the level treadmill then you can reach the top. SL isn't like that because it depends on having something to contribute, and that depends on RL skills (technical, artistic or social). Someone who can't build, can't texture, can't script, and who lacks in social skills will never prosper in SL. That creates classes of haves and have nots in a way that no other MMOG does. Right now there's a huge amount here to appeal to the person that enjoys being a developer and not nearly as much to appeal to those that just want to come play with existing content. Over time (probably a long time) that will begin to even out, but for now the tourist type is likely to be frustrated by SL.

It's not up to LL to keep people who are more interested in experiencing than originating content interested in playing the game, it's up to us. We'll get there... but it's not going to happen overnight.

I don't know Power Jack, have never met him, but I have to sy that he does have a very nicely executed interactive and educational build in Taber, one that he obviously spent a fair amount of time on, so he's not just blowing smoke rings out his behind. I will agree with him in that there seem to be a large numberof builds in SL lately that rather than amaze and stun us with their beauty or originality seem more intended to shock us with their shabby tastelessness.

Oh Joy! Another defend SL post.

SL's tagline should be: What would you like to do today? (uhhh.. unless that was taken by MS)

Power Jack, SL is what you make of it. It sounds like you haven't found your groove here.. or, maybe you just won't.

Eggy: I have to disagree with your comment about passive consumers.... I think we need them, as much as we need active creators. Otherwise, who would consume our creations?

I met Jack and he seemed rather levelheaded. While a bit abrupt, I do not view his post as a flame. He is expressing the reason he chooses not to continue spending money on his SL subscription.

I only hope that he, and the others, bear in mind that SL does indeed have great potental and there is going to be a certain amount of awkwardness and growing pains right now. Come back and have a look at a later time ... perhaps it will have evolved into something that better suits your particular taste.

With Regards,
Antagonistic Protagonist

The others nailed it.

If you don't contribute, you can't see the potential.

I still maintain that it is a failure on the point of the person being disappointed, not the world, as Jellin points out -- you choose to build, you choose to do what you want to do.

Apparently all this guy could choose is to complain without contributing, and that is what pisses me off about his post.

Facts of life. No matter how good or bad it will never be what 'it could be' to someone.

A lot of people thought Anarchy Online would die because it was so bug ridden and crashy in the early parts. A waste many called it. But where is it now? Do people still think it sucks like when it first was released?

I'll be honest I thought AO sucked too when I tried it out the first few days of its release. I thought it would die. The AO people proved me and many others wrong.

So I too think of SL in that response. Many will think it sucks and is wasting its resources. I don't think so. You can always compare SL to There. There was highly reguarded and to be better than SL and look what happened. SL got in a car, started it and ran over There, stopped to back up and over There again and finally put it back in drive for one final 'thumpthump' before moving on. SL is improved a lot since my limited time in beta. I see a vast improvement and each day it only gets better. The community as a whole has gotten smarter, better, and wiser on building and creating things. SL has provided the tools and resources (for the most part you M sim whiners) for what the great minds can think up inside SL.

SL is not dead, its in its infancy. Its up to us and the Lindens to see it grow into something bigger.

I'd have to agree - I write scripts, but you cant SEE Scripts... I'm no artist - so I'm pathetic with prims, horrible with textures... basically, I cant actually make anything visible. Dont have a house, dont have a car, etc...

And the appeal is very limited to me. I'll probably continue for a short while, then leave and come back in a year or something to see if theres anything more to actually do (for a person like me).

Basically, SL is mediocre at just about everything other games are very good at - it will never be BETTER than quake at first person shooter, BETTER than EQ at questing, BETTER than warcraft at RTS (if at all)...

... but is *very* good at some things that other games CANNOT do...

Its like a great big 3D whiteboard that everyone can draw on!

If that kind of thing appeals to you, you'll have a great time.
If you are your typical lego builder who makes stuff, you'll have a great time.
Artists generally love the place. Anyone who likes to show off what they can make, will enjoy SL.

But thats really all there is to SL. Honestly. Its a big game of perpetual show and tell. It even has "Hey look what I made" voice emotes. Thats what its ABOUT. And some kinds of people really, really love that kind of thing. For example, my bro is an avid artist (go figure), he sits on whiteboards all day, with his stylus, just sketchin and chatting. If he got on SL it would be the end of his world. (shudder).

BUT...

...if you're the kind that needs to be entertained by an external thing (...Ie, never really had fun with legos, can't stand whiteboards, gets bored if handed a piece of paper and a pencil...) then it might be that a different game is required for you to be happy. Its not that you're bad, its just... different folks need different things to be entertained. You might find other more ... gamey-type games to be better for you. And theres nothing wrong with that.

For me, I would probably take a break (for a year or two) from SL in the hopes that it will become more interesting to me.

Some say 'make it more interesteing! Build some stuff' but all I can say is, sorry, native C++ and directX/OpenGL is where I build my stuff, and its a heck of a lot less limited than LSL and prims. But each to their own. I couldnt imagine making a game in LSL when I have that kind of powerful tool available to me. It makes no sense.

BUT

I woudlnt' give up on SL yet. I mean, its constantly changing. Give it a year, 2 years. Maybe by then we'll be able to run it at a decent framerate. Maybe by then some of the lag will be solved, the HAvoc v500 engine will be implemented, LSL will have classes and includable modules and a class heirarchy and will run smoothly, who knows? The point is, it has MORE POTENTIAL than any game out there. So leave. But come back later.

yep lots of porn. but come on, BINGO ROCKS!

and seriously, what else can compare to SL, please let me know?

jack: i'll trade you my portion of bingo for your portion of porn!

then we'll all be happy.