Show and Tell - Negative Ratings

On Saturday the 16th of October I logged onto my e-mail to find that [edit: name removed] had rated me negatively 3X.. I had no idea what I'd done so I logged into the world in a hurry.. I IM'd her to ask what the problem was.. About half an hour later she replied. She told me she had been meaning to do it for a while and has only recently got the chance. I don't know what that meant. Maybe she fell over one of my sofas or something.

The reason I warranted a triple neg? It is because she deems my show and tells unfair. She has been to 2 of my show and tells.. And the one she has a problem with is one I held about a month before.. I allowed into the show and tell a board on which you could place bets on RL football.. At a furniture show and tell. She felt this was very unfair.. Despite the fact the board didn't get a prize and she did coming 3rd... despite the fact that she said nothing at the time to me or openly to the show and tell.

So I have been neg rated for not pulling someone off the stage on the technicality of what furniture is and isn't. After our discussion, she did remove the neg for appearance, but kept those for building and behaviour.

When she logged on I told my friend, [edit: name removed] and she said she was going to talk to her.. The next time I logged on I got an offline from [edit: name removed] saying that [edit: name removed] had not been open to discussion and had neg rated her for behavior, for getting involved.

If anyone can see her side in this please let me know.. Because I really can't.. I can't imagine going to an event, thinking something is unfair, keeping my mouth shut until a month later, and then neg rating. First off I would go with whatever the host thought was valid to enter, and secondly if I had a problem I'd say so there and then!

Let me know...
Zapoteth


[edited to remove names]

This really isnt a public issue. Why do people feel the need to make the fact that they were negged or "triple" negged a public issue.

Taeja negged you for her own reasons, and these reasons are not impeachable - neg ratings are not an issue for the public to decide if you were deserving or not. And posting publicly about neg ratings is only an attempt to cause some public outcry and maybe turn some people against her.

You neg people how you feel is proper, and [edit: name removed] negs according to what she feels is proper. I know that I have a few negs in the que that Im waiting to toss out and a few more positives i wish to revoke as well as some negatives given i wish to revoke - that is my business. If i choose to rate a person 3 months down the road, then so be it - the fact that im neg rating them or postive rating them 3 months later does not make it any less deserving.

But posting this publicly really isn't cool at all I don't understand why so many of you like to take your personal disagreements with someone out in the public just to embarass someone or try to make them hated. It is not proper at all.

Briana Dawson


[edited to remove names from quoted post]

I would argue that negative ratings are a very public label. As such, publically trying to determine the nature of those ratings is appropriate.

Furthermore, he received these negative ratings as a direct result of hosting a public event. The questions in his post were whether others also felt that his handling of the event warranted such a public labeling.

Ratings, both positive and negative, are not private things. They are public declarations made by one individual regarding another individual. As such, they should be open to public discourse.

The fact we are able to give negative ratings based upon things that we perceive to be bad about someone's behaviour/appearance/building is reason enough really. It's all one persons opinion. And as such, I wouldn't worry yourself too much about it.

You can't really argue with someone elses rating. You can disagree, sure, like everyone can disagree about a difference of opinions, but ultimately, this is a tool for an individual to express theirs about you. Whether thats right or wrong to have (and personally I disagree with having rating tools of any kind about an individual), she's using it for what she believes is right.

Think yourself lucky not to have been on the receiving end of a mass neg rate attack by someone and their alts/cronies or random flyby negs.

Neg ratings mean nothing anyway. No one but the most shallow of people are going to treat you any differently because of your ratings. Most know that neg ratings usually come down to petty tit for tat anywau. I know that when I have rated people negatively - and with good reason, and only in the categories I actually think they deserve it in - I always get a 'f*ck you too' treble back. At which point I go back and add the other two negs, cuz I can be petty and immature too

Edit : bah. Briana obviously types faster

Posting names on the forum will certaily get this thread deleted as well

I was devestated to find myself one morning looking at my profile and realising i had 1 neg rating.. i mean MOI.. im so lovable.. i think i was probably drunk and being frisky

So i dunno who did it or what it was for.. but i have one... *cries*.. i wish it would go away but i have to live with the fact somebody didn't like something i wore/did/built... my advice... just forget it and enjoy yer game

I don't think '[edit: name removed] negged me' is going to get a thread deleted. It's a statement of fact, assuming it to be true, and I have no reason to doubt it, since there would be little point in the post.

There really isn't a 'you cant say anything about anyone by name' rule. You just can't call them rude names or divulge their rl info


[edit: name removed]

As a fellow event host, Zapoteth, I sympathize. How encouraging is it to hosts to be rated negatively for a call at an event? I think while a lot of people are focusing on the name you mentioned, that could just as easily be omitted and a good discussion could still take place.

Why host events at all when this is how one's event can be thanked or appreciated? I wonder sometimes if people understand what their actions suggest. I hope you continue to host events, Zap. Don't let it bother you too much. Every now and then there are some sour apples in the audience--I'm sure we both know this from experience. Count this situation as just one of those sour apples and remember there's a whole larger crowd to attend to.

We give too much power to this insignificant thing - ratings. I sometimes think that LL is just a big psych lab - waiting for us to respond/react next. Don't let it get ya down! Its unfair - sure... I can certainly say that I have received a lot of positive ratings that I did nothing much to deserve too. I have no negs yet - gasp!!! Bring it on you suckers!!

Just try not to let it bother you too much. It makes your neg-rater feel that there is power in that little click and pay of theirs. I think we can judge for ourselves whether we like or dislike someone...

as far as earning money and ratings... well that's just wrong. Makes for a bunch of phonies and dopes.

We love you - fahgeddaboudit.

If ratings cost us $L100 each, we would seriously think before rating somebody.

How do you figure its a public label? Its one persons opinion. It doesn't matter that a person be performing a "public function". There isn't a screen that we can pull up that says what ratings were given and received by who in a day nor is there a way for the populace to vote in against a neg and reverse it. And need i point out that there is no approval needed (by the public) to bestow ratings on a person.

Ratings are between the rater and the receiver.

Briana Dawson

I still see them as a public label viewable by anyone.

If you are willing to give a negative rating, you should be willing to stand behind it. I don't see the problem here. I publically stand behind every rating I've ever given. I do this because it is a public endorsement of another person.

This is definitely a private matter, and if you are going to whine in public about it, at least tell the entire story, not just an excerpt of it for sympathy.

First of all, negative ratings are something we can give out for any reason. I could give you a negative rating because I don't like your name, or your hair, or your build. They are in our discretion to use. If you are that bent out of shape about a single negative rating that you need to run to the forums, you should truly check your own sanity.

The reason you were neg rated is because you allowed someone to enter a tree and a football gambling item into a furniture contest. [edit: name removed] felt this was unfair, as neither is a piece of furniture by any measurable standards. It was well within her rights in SL to negative rate you for what she felt was unfair behavior, regardless if the items won or not. It was her discretion to rate you negatively or positively - I am sure you don't whine when people positive rate you without even knowing you, do you? Also an unfairly given rating, n'est-ce pas?

As far as your poor friend, it was not about [edit: name removed] not being open to conversation - it was that the situation was between you two, and you having a friend IM her and tell her she is committing abuse, and also threatening to negative rate her, is out of line and is harassment. [edit: name removed] was not involved in the situation, and her approaching [edit: name removed] in the way that she did warranted [edit: name removed] negative rating her as well. Again, within her discretion to do so.

You also left out the part where you complained that it was abuse and you were going to abuse report her. Neg rating someone is not abuse, unless you instigate others to neg rate someone as well. The rating system was a tool put in place for us to express our individual opinions of a person's behavior, appearance, and building skills.

Regardless, the entire thing was reported preemptively to Linden Lab in case you followed through on your threat, so at least they had a complete picture with chat logs of why she negative rated you and [edit: name removed].



[edited out names]

Daemioth,

I imagine that if you host an event of a certain label, that you have some consistency of rules for that contest. That is what this issue was - the basic rules of a contest were violated. If you have sympathy for that as an event host, then let's let anything go in contests. As [edit: name removed] pointed out, if a tree is a piece of furniture, she might as well enter a car, since it has seats in it. [edit: name removed] is hardly a sour apple, but someone who has worked very hard as a furniture designer and is proud of her work. Do not label someone without knowing a situation.

[edited out names]

I think Kris and Briana said it best. Nobody is going to judge you because of your neg ratings. The rating system in SL is DEEPLY flawed, in fact there is an active thread right now involving Phillip Linden that discusses how the ratings system should be fixed.

So take the neg for what it is...a little number on your profile that cost Taeja 3 L$, but affects in you IN NO WAY.

-aimee

Just out of curiosity, cause I could give a rats ass otherwise about this drahma, why exaxctly did she triple neg rate him? How exactly did his building upset her that day....Was his appearenance really that bad?....I will give you behaviour ...god knows he let a tree in a contest....but the gambling board should have at least warranted a suspension.

This is exactly the reason why ratings need to go. Ok....back to being pencewits



[edited out name in quote]

The biggest problem with threads like this is they are basically a case of "he said/she said." And then they just become a ball of drama for forum posters to bat around for a while. Believe me, I know; I've engaged in ones like this before, and I'm always, -always- sorry afterward.

The ratings system is frustrating in its current incarnation because it seems to give a lot of power to those who might choose to neg rate you. The Lindens agree it's flawed and are working on changing it (see Aimee's post above). Chances are fairly good that if you even log on occasionally or have a build somewhere in-world, you could receive a neg rating for little to no reason at all.

Since I know [edit: name removed] better than I know Zapoteth, I could come out swinging in her defense. But what I'd rather say is... this is a private matter and probably doesn't belong on forums at all.

This thread is a perfect example of how the rating system is still alive and working well.

Isnt this thread a violation of TOS thought? reporting conversations of others without their permissions? or reporting about others negatively?

Too many rules, too vague enforcement.

If you wasted my time (as it appears you did with the person mentioned) by holding a furniture show and tell (where furniture seems to be defined by you as anything that retains some sort of virtual matter).. you deserve the negs. From your post, it seems to me that you in no way appreciate the time and effort that goes building and then presenting a person's work.

Not only that, but naming someone in a public post in this manner is silly and uncalled for.

Setting aside this particular instance, anyone else get the feeling we need the ratings equivalent of "Am I Hot or Not?". Each side is invited to state their case, then folks can vote as whether it was a "good" or "bad" neg.

No, this is not a feature request for the Lindens.

Hi Everyone...

Wow. I suppose it -is- true that no matter how much you try to stay out of trouble and keep a low profile in SL, drama will always find you in some way, shape or form.

All of my opinions about this issue have been stated in this thread, a million times over in fact. So I will not repeat some of the same comments. It is most unfortunate that Zapoteth decided to take this -private- issue to a public forum because I have discussed this situation entirely with him and I do not feel it is necessary to explain myself once again. I will however take this time to say thank you to the players in this thread that spoke up for me in my behalf. It means alot to know that there are people out there that not only share some of the same feelings that I have, but will voice them publicly.

In playing SL and even in RL situations, there are always going to be times when issues arise that we will not agree upon. Those are the times that we must be adults about it and agree to disagree. I truly hope this will be the case with this particular situation. Let us move on from this. I guarantee you, no one will even remember this issue a week from now.

Taeja...

I like both [edit: name removed] and Zapoteth quite a bit. . . I know that they are both good people.

I think [edit: name removed] was completely in her right to rate anyone how she felt, and I don't believe she is an example or cause of what I'm going to mention below.

That being said, I also don't think Zapoteth is making his complaint without reason, but I think possibly there's some underlying negative feelings about the following issue that may have been transferred to [edit: name removed] or exacerbated his response to the neg rating:

Mentoring has become an absolutely thankless job.

Now, before people start screaming at me "Well then, don't be a Mentor". . . I think that while this thread might be viewed as a negative thing by people on both sides of the fence, it does afford us the possibility of constructively discussing this very real issue.

Have you looked at the Event Calendar lately? Ever used that drop down that filters so you can see just the Mentor events?

I did this recently, and was fairly mortified to see just how few Mentor events had been scheduled. I started looking at myself, and the fact that I hadn't been doing Mentor events for awhile, and tried to decide why that was.

One of the problems with the world increasing in population so much is that it does increase the possibility of running into the "bad eggs" (I'm speaking of new people here). Doing a Show & Tell event, then having someone IM you when they don't win any money for the green sphere they made (this happened) and yelling about how the event was obviously rigged to give money to my friends can be quite discouraging.

In the real world, jobs where you can run into bad eggs - nurses at a mental hospital, police officers - can be quite dangerous for the soul. You tend to remember the cases that were most difficult, and while this may be a tiny tiny percentage of the people you come in contact with, since these are the memories that stick with you, you can start to expect every person you come across to be a bad egg.

To the Mentors out there: try to keep this in mind. Do your best to formulate your memories around those truly great people you meet - the ones that say things like "Great Basics class, you helped me sooo much, Thanks! " Keep these memories close to your heart and fresh in your mind so that you'll come to expect that all people are going to respond this way. More and more, bad eggs will seem to be an extremely rare occasion.

To the community as a whole: perhaps we can discuss ways to make the Mentor system a little less thankless? This part might sound like me whining a bit, and I'm sorry if it does. . . but it used to be that I felt a little more pride at being a Mentor. Doing a Mentor event was rewarded back in the day, by at least a smidgeon more event money. Now, anyone that does any event at the Dore Stage can get the same payment. I think this is a good thing, and shouldn't be changed, but it does make doing a Mentor event seem less special.

More discouraging (at least for me) is the current more strict restrictions on how many events we are allowed to do. If I'm in a mood to do lots of events during the week, I'm limited to seven events - all well and good, except that I have to choose between doing a Mentor event or doing an event at my place and making much more money, and maybe getting more of the only thing LL rewards and seems to appreciate: dwell. I've been told on more than one occasion that I'm an idiot for choosing the former and have no right to complain about the latter, as Mentoring is my choice.

And, it is my choice. But I do like Mentoring. I do like helping the community. Helping out new folks as much as possible. I think the Mentor progam is an important and necessary one.

Is there any way that we could possibly encourage Mentoring, as opposed to having a system that so discourages it?

I know one thing that would be great is if Mentor events didn't count toward my seven events for the week. Say, if I could do seven Mentor events on top of seven normal events at my place. Some people may cry foul, but if its left to someone having to make a choice between the two types of events, its fairly obvious what people will choose. Mentor events are a service to the community, and I don't think you should be made to feel foolish for choosing to do one.

Okay, wow, I went on much longer than even I normally do. Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to express some of what I think the feeling behind Zapoteth's issue is, even if he may have misdirected it. Also, I want to say that I in no way think that [edit: name removed] is a "bad egg" - she's really great! The thread just seemed like a good opportunity to bring up some issues that I've been thinking a lot about recently.

Any other constructive suggestions as to make Mentoring a little less thankless are highly welcome!

Oh, a sort of P.S. I've done a Mentor event each night over the last week - mostly Basics. I've met some really great new folks, and have had some really good classes. There are many and beautiful rewards to be found in Mentoring, if only we can try and make it less difficult to find those rewards

Thanks for reading this long ass post.

P.P.S - Thank you Char for being your amazing, wonderful self!


[edited to remove names]

Been there, asked that

Allow me to add my voice to the chorus: Ratings are prepubescent holdovers from gaming environments that have no bloody place in Second Life. They are an embarrassment and need to be eliminated immediately, along with leaderboards and other silly "social devices."

While there is probably some social good to come out of positive rating someone whom you've just met, or for their builds or accomplishments, using negative ratings for nearly any purpose simply causes useless drama. Case-in-point: this thread. There are far better ways that disagreements and incidents can be handled.

But if drama is the point of Second Life, then may I suggest you go "There"?