on organization

this will be a rant. you have been warned.

flying around SL and looking around you get almost no sense of order. it just looks like a mishmash of stuff with no point to it all. really messy. you run into a lot of really well built buildings and stuff, but theres not much holding it all together.

the only areas that really look great are the themed communities like nexus prime or route 66. they really are the best things made in SL so far IMO. but, although they look like cities, they aren't. theyre just projects that a few people worked on to create some kind of vision. great for screenshots. great for a tour. great to host events. great projects.

But wouldn't it be inspiring if these cities had sprung up more naturally? i mean wouldn't it be cool if these cities were actual communities where we lived and traded and worked?

i think part of the problem is that it's very cheap to own a lot of land and objects. plenty of us have enough money to rez a whole lot of stuff. so we create this whole big thingamawhatzit wherever we want just for the sake of creating it. I know, thats pretty much SL's whole purpose, and it IS what makes it fun, but I for one would really like to see more order in SL.

(hang on its just a rant )

I suspect that part of the reason that the Lindens created Boardman(is that the right name?) the way it is, is because they also noticed the lack of organization in the world. it looks ugly. so theyre forcing a sort of order in that sim.

now, I don't totally agree with being forced to build and create and live under certain rules, but on the other hand it must be nice to know that no one can build a megalopolis pulsing lag tower next to your humble cottage. so theres two sides that i feel need to be balanced out. theres the desire for all of us to create whatever wherever the hell we want. and then, theres the desire to live in a nice community. i know there was at least one community like this before (geez i forget the name. the old timers know what i'm talking about), where everyone built according to an agreed upon code and it turned out pretty nice.

so i'm just thinking that maybe there should be a better way for us to organize our homes and creations into communities with like minded stuff where we will create by the same rules.

now, i'm just ranting on and brainstorming at this point but i think this brings up some issues. if any type of organization is going to exist it implies that there will be some sort of rule making and enforcing process (think government). how will rules be decided, changed, and enforced? perhaps the rule making/changing process can be left to individual communities, but enforcing can be a tough issue, especially since anyone can buy land anywhere and no one can take it away. so for a community to work there has to be a way for the community to own and control a big plot of land, kinda like how the themed communities have some space to work in.

ok i've already ranted long enough. i really would like to hear what others have to say about this. I know we all want freedom to do anything anywhere, but I also think that a lot of us would like our homes and other creations to be surrounded by similar stuff. so how could we, or should we strike a balance?

(and just out of curiousity, why did that old community eventually fail?)

The old community (Lindenburg) failed because of lag. There was always lag. If it was busy then it was impossible to move lag sometimes. Because the lag was so high people went elsewhere to build. Which ment the place became abandoned. It turned into a glorified vote farm.

In bullet point form:
- The city died because people were unable to effectively build there.

ah, so without the lag would you say that it was worth it though?

doesn't anyone else want to see more themed communities and less randomness?

Yes! I agree Ope! I believe the reason that we have the randomness is because we are able to quickly travel all over the world, and, because we have no needs. Think about why we have cities IRL. Its because a)We are stuck there and B)Natural Resources

If we had a natural resource system and had we been forced by Linden Lab to create our own vehicles, we might actually have formed communities.

yeah i though of that too but i dunno i think i still want to be able to fly around and teleport and stuff. I just think it would be great if there was a better way to organize ourselves.

like for example, i see a lot of medieval and fantasy type structures around. it would be great if they had an area that was mostly for that type of building so it would look cool. like right next to our futuristic city in immaculate is a beautiful castle in the making and a cathedral. they just don't fit next to us. (or vice versa)

its fun to make stuff, but i just think it would be great if organization was stressed a bit more. like right now we have the projects forum but i don't think a lot of people really take it seriously. and plus its tough to get a lot of land to make a big project.

yeah i see all of your points schwartz. i definitely don't think that we should be required to only create things in a community, cuz we all want our freedom. but i think it would be great if we could fit the things that we create together into larger projects more easily when we want. we'd be able to create areas that alone none of us could feasibly create.

While communities are nice, we definately need both chaos and order. Boardman and De Haro suit some people fine, while others wouldn't want to see any kind of limit on what they or their neighbours can build.

I think the biggest eye-sore are abandoned building projects. Half finished or just started stuff lying around, while the player who owns them hasn't been online for weeks and has probably quit playing. If you don't log in for a month your stuff should become public (at least in the beta), and once SL goes live...it should probably be a month after you stop paying. If you want to get back in two months later, you should get them money for your lost structures, but the houses are either gone or have been taken over by others. This will also free up land for others. I read somewhere that the Lindens are working on this.

Danny

Sorry about the Castle Ope but it was being built on the first night that Immaculate opened. Kind of look at it as a land mark. even in Future Cities their will be Historic buildings that will not be destroyed due to their Historical nature.

Unfortunately I am working on a shoestring budget and complete things as I get money. I have furniture for sale at Fey's but no one apparently likes it or buys it. Soooo as time goes on the Castle will slowly progress.

I have a Vision for the castle it will incorporate old world with new world additives. Be patient it will grow and work out.

To give an example look at Europe. Several Modern Citys have sprung from the Shadows of Old world Castles. Some of the Cities are Ultra Modern but in essence the Old Castle still remains but the City lives on.

Take Heart Ope things will work out in the end. Either I will find a more suited Sim to Pack up my castle and move too or vice versa. Either way I will try to be as Hospitable a neighbor as possible.

Sincerely, ShadowWeaver.

I think order is great when it comes to communities, however most of the time i can't even visit the cities that do exist in SL right now, cause of the lag. If there was a way for cities(or even just small towns), to be built, without the lag, i'd be extremely interested.

It would be fantastic for a group of friends even, to get together and create a small town. But with the lag that it causes, and with the lack of land (hopefully to change soon ), its not possible for me. *pout*!

hey Shadow theres no need to apologize. you're castle is really coming together nice. i wouldn't want to see it leave. please don't think that i want that. i was just using it as an example to show how a lot of things that are right next to eachother don't go together. its something thats common among like 90% of SL.

the whole thing really struck me when i was able to get back on SL after a few days lapse and i wanted to fly around and check out any new stuff. from up in the air you just don't get any sense that these are actual places. it just looks like a big ol' mess. but when you swoop down and look at things individually there are so many nice houses and buildings that have been built. these things are just begging to be put together into communities. there's so much creative energy going around, but its scattered.

so i just thought it would be great if there was a better way to get enough land and organize ourselves so that we can make communities out of our stuff instead of just being random. and the lag, well, thats always gonna be a problem i guess.

The one thing I'd most like to see is people building at a more realistic scale! There's too many houses with 40 foot ceilings on every floor. They obstruct people's view and contribute a lot to the chaotic look of the world. I don't mind the surrealistic jumble, for the most part... but people should be a little more considerate of their neighbors. If someone's spent a lot of effort building themself a nice place with an ocean view it's a real drag when someone comes along and erects a 100 foot tower made out of two or three prims and totally wipes out their view and the atmosphere of the location. That's happening now off the end of my dock. Now that person bought the land and they have every right to build whatever they want. It's their world as much as mine, but people should put some thought into the impact they have on their neighbors.

Yes... for everyone who doesn't know, there is a nifty scripted object called "Builder's Tape Measure" that shows recommended sizes for doors, and floors upto 3 stories I believe.

It should be available in the Bazaar, or from Liaisons (I would think)... or if you want someone to pester, I have a copy

--Bino Arbuckle, perhaps likely to become the friendly tape measure distributor for the grid

It would be nice to build as a community some times, I know a few places that people have created community type buildings (usually underwater). Unfortunately, its so hard to buy land next to each other. There should be a system that if you do not build on land you purchase within a period of time, it is returned to the public domain.

I would love to have buildings next to my place that have the same sort of theme. Instead of purchased empty land and eye-sores. In fact come to my place and let me know if your interested in building something similar to what I currently have, Hawthorne(60, 240, 250) (I might have the first 2 reversed), just take the transport at the base.

I have to disagree with this. Some of us buy land to buffer our builds so we dont have someone elses building (and tastes) butted right against ours.

Cramming more together will not help organize but rather hinder it. Cramming more togther also creates more lag. We dont need to fill every square of a sim.

I do Ope

I moved to Immaculate in hopes that a town, a village, a little city would spring up. Unfortunately that is not the case now Little did I know when I moved there that it would turn out as it has. I want to live in "Suburbia" hopefully that will be a dream that does come to pass soon. Or some other themed community. I find it hard to get into anything I build when others around me are building boxes and big ugly structures that have no purpose other than to create lag, noise, and general nuisance's. I would love to be a part of projects bigger than my home/studio. Unless everyone in that sim is on the same page I don't see that happening.

I look to the future with wide eyed enthusiasm.

Cat

Ope so your wanting Immaculate to be futuristic? That is kewl with me too. Shows what i know about what is realy going on in my own backyard lol. Shadows castle is a work of art that is for sure but no it does not fit into a futuristic theme nor does the museum being built in Immaculate. Me well I am very flexable on the matter. A house just doesnt thrill me just something to build. I think most ppl have a sence of what they want. Me on the other hand well I like change and being part of something bigger than myself. With that in mind I will keep traveling the world looking for my nitch If new land were to open up I would love to be a part of this futuristic land you speak of

Cat

Danny I agree with ya here when you say half finished or barley started properties should be removed after a month. A month (even for those of us who are very busy) is enough time to log on and build a wall or two. Especialy in beta those half started or abandoned properties should become public after a month. I agree.

Cat

Ope o Ope

Hey why not contact everyone in Immaculate and see if they are willing to change to futuristic? Ya got my vote.

Cat

What I would like to see is a community similar to Lusk Estates only the lots larger. I love it there but all my good neighbors moved on because of the small lots. Lusk Estates is fine for the beginner but you find out very quickly that the lot is just not very large.

I would say two to three times of the current Lusk Estate lots would give you room to breathe and build.

Fey (sisterfriend! long time no see i will be on tonight )

Yup Fey we know it we love it but Lusk was so small. Suburbia is supose to be in the works for us and our dream neighborhood cannot be soon enough for me I so want to be a part of bigger projects I am just itching for the day

Miss your face Fey see you at 3

Cat

Cat! You better!!! cause I have missed you too! We have much to talk about!

See you at 3!

I meant large blocks of land with nothing at all on them. If you build a tiny 10x10 house on a 25x25 plot of land, that isn't bad at all if it looks decent. I mean the people who buy 40x40 plots of land and then don't build anything at all on them cause they have no money. Especially people who have gone around and purchased little tiny pieces of land EVERYWHERE, and have built nothing. It is incredibly annoying and does not allow for communities to expand or friends to build near eachother.

Not really, I mean we weren't the first ones there anyway. We just want a futuristic city, doesn't matter where. It just kinda ruins the whole illusion when right next to it is a castle, a cathedral, contemporary buildings, and then some random ones that don't even make no sense. It would just be great if somehow we could get together with other people who want to build this way and we could all build next to eachother somewhere.