Proud to be an American.... why?

And who exactly is invading?

Give me a country, a nationality. Give me something the military can point their guns at.

Oh, you can't?

OK.

LF

International terrorist organizations, and governments that support them, financially or otherwise.

Are you familiar with the term "unconventional warfare?"

It's been a long time since warfare consisted of two lines of soldiers facing off at 100 paces and just shooting at each other.

Now it inolves turning an airplane into a fuel-air bomb, and targetting civilians.

Is it truly your point of view that we shouldn't be defending our own people (read, you and your family) from terrorists?

Do you honestly believe that if we just leave Al Qaeda and their supporters alone, that they'll leave us alone? You do realize that we were pretty much leaving them alone prior to 2001, right?

You cannot declare 'war' on an ideal. It's folly. bound to fail. Military units versus Guerilla's, and small cell's, is something best left to intelligence networks, rather than the military.

Sept11 was _not_ an invasion. It was an act of terrorism, there is infact a difference, despite what bush and his cronies keep brainwashing people to believe. (Did you know that 40% of amercian's still believe that Al' Queda was linked to Iraq - despite the fact that Osama Bin Laden had strong objections' to saddam, for religious reasons, and hence was _not involved_.).

If America, is improving these countries, please, show me the evidence. It's simply a guise, a masquerade - Divert the public from the real issues that matter. Economy. Education. Health. Most people dont know what the DMCA, or PATRIOT act are, despite the fact that it was during bush's term that these were enacted, and have seriously eroded Civil liberties.

Yes, Hippies & Idiot's have taken the same cause, and I'd prefer the logical argument was not diluted by their lack of intelligence. However, Iraq & Afghanistan was a reactive measure, that has done little other than cost singificant USD$ to sustain the War effort, money that could be better spent fixing the problem.

LF's Solution, while strong on it's own, does not highlight a key issue.

Education.

Religious Fundementalism is linked to Education level's in a country. This extremism has been caused by the lack of Food, Health & most importantly, Education. In these countries. If that $600 billion (or is it more?), was invested in Aid programs (and not the normal blank cheque to random government diplomat kind), then the rise in quality of living would stamp out America's reputation, as well as improve the lives of millions-to-billions of people.

Instead, the US has retailiated with force, and created a Matyr of these countries, and proven an example of how US force, has abused it's power.

Other foreign policy is most likely going to inspire future terrorist attacks, such as the recent siding with isreal (the least popular country in the Middle East - mainly becuase it' abuses poorer countries economically, Palestine for example.)

- end incoherent rant -

-Adam

Well hell, we probably HELPED AL Qaeda during the 80's, in order to fight the then-current boogeyman, "Communism". Now, we've got the Communists on our side (China) fighting the terrorists, who are suddenly on the other side of the fence.

And the rest of your comment merely proves my point Why do we need 200 million troops if we're being "invaded" by 10, 20, maybe 50 people who want to blow up gas stations and take over power plants?

Poo-pooing me because I didn't jump on the patriotism bandwagon and run off to Iraq to "liberate" it is silly. Our humongous, most technically advanced military in the world is completely useless in the war on Terrorism. The day of carpet bombing an enemy into submission is over. Guerilla tactics win the day.

And, sorry to say, Patriot missiles don't make good guerrilas.

LF

<<Saddam did support terrorism, I never heard the white house say Al Queda, people just assumed it.>>

Bush quite clearly made the link between the Sep. 11th atrocity and Saddam Hussein. He did so purely to further his own political ends, and by doing so dishonoured all those people who died. I am amazed he did not earn the contempt and hatred of every American citizen.

<<International terrorist organizations, and governments that support them, financially or otherwise.>>

Americans have certainly supported the IRA financially, at a time when they were bombing the mainland. And America was guilty of harbouring two IRA terrorists who were wanted in Britain to stand trial for their crimes.

Things aren't always black and white in international matters.

an earthling. Taxes are a form of 'rent' to me. I happen to like this "neighborhood" so I live here. I love having the wide variety of cultures, cuisines, communities that you get in a coastal/university/tourist town like mine. It's good a good way to remind myself regularly that just because many people believe in a thing, not necessarily all people do.

But, as much as being in this country is enjoyable, there are the drawbacks.

America is built around commercialism. Gotta have the best home, best car best appliances, best best best. I know few people that aren't in debt up to their eyeballs with the need to "Represent". If you don't drive some overpriced gas guzzling road warrior elite-mobile then folks just think less of you. A serious problem when you look at a city like San Diego. Mass transit is just too low on the social ladder to get given a chance, no matter how badly needed it is.

I've lived over seas, and people are people everywhere, they (and we) have their biases and misconceptions. Which makes assuming we know what's best for other countries rather dangerous. We know best? Then why are so many people on anti-depressants? Why are so many children being medicated for ADD?

What made our administration think that by removing a tyrant they could hand out democracy and everything would be fine in record time? A murderous tyrant was probably the only thing holding Iraq together in the first place, now we're obligated to "Maintain the peace" there indefinitely or there will be Iraqi civil wars that will make what Saddam did look trivial. But that's good see, because it puts America in a better place to control oil sales around the world, and with India and China becoming growing industrial powers and needing that oil, that'll be good for the U.S. in the long run, Right?

Hm.

I can make arguments for and against going into Iraq, and end up throwing my hands in the air in frustration. The part that does annoy me is followers of a religion I do do not follow trying to tell me that I need to live my life by their rules. I'm sorry, but the freedom to be morally oppressed is not on one of the ones I'm interested in fighting for.

(and yes, i'm referring to gay marriage)

Lordfly, please pick any of those countries you named and go live there.

I'm proud to be an American because I can say Presidaent Bush is a tard without going to jail. and then express that same opinion at the polls. Presidents come and go, some good .. some bad. Yet the power is still with the People. NOW if I could only get the people to actually use the power :/

-AP

hey, don't drag canada into this or we'll have to burn down your white house.

again.

stop being so hard on america. it's a good country. i'll name you somethings that america is good at making:
enterainment
university education
scientific research
hamburgers
weapons of mass destruction

america ROX!

Been there, tried that.

Anyway, we can send out all the operatives and satellites we can produce--if there's a government that doesn't think we might actually go after them for real, they're not going to cooperate with us at all.

Thanks for all the baseless American bashing by the way, really shows off the obvious non-American superiority.

I say 'meh.'

America has had such a complicated history of dealings, it's hard to pinpoint a specific cause for its current state of affairs.

I know not how to solve all these problems, but I do know that violence begets violence... and so unless everyone just drops everything, people will keep killing people.

Me... well I'm moving to a neutral country first chance I get. People can fight their wars and bring down the tyrants. Argue about who started what. But until people with weapons everywhere can forgoe all the military hoozbah and just put down their guns, we're forced to control human population growth through our own egos with a little help from disease here n there.

Meanwhile I'll meke out my existence producing music and spreading any excess wealth I make and giving it to poor families with children that have special educational needs. The only solution to our problems is wisdom... no child should be denied education.

--edited one little sentence for a little bit of excess language.

There's no running away, not unless you want to live in the mountains. I wish the mideast was "just" another Vietnam--we could leave Vietnam, lose the Vietnam war, and still not have to worry about the Vietnamese coming over and setting off poison gas bombs in cities. If we lose this one, we could end up with disasters worse than we can imagine (well, maybe not). Especially with people like Michael Moore around who think there's no threat to us from people who cut off heads "to make a point". News flash: it's not just political fiction--there is a threat.

If you are in Canada, aren't you in a neutral country? Alert SL when you do put out some music so that we can support you. Or just write to me

Now, to answer the question:
I am proud to be an american because I have contol over my future and I decided to stay here and do what I can to improve things here. Most of my social work doesn't matter on a huge scale, but if I can make one other person's life better, I am happy. It doesn't make up for the fact that I make my living off of the wars we make, but I do what I want, when I want and the fact that I contribute to that gives me a sense of pride. I am not going to go around flaunting it, but I am happy. A bunch of people who complain that we have it all wrong aren't going to take it away (in my lifetime anyway.)

Im proud to be an American simply because we have the right to say what we want. Give our points of view and state our opinions.

This whole thread is an example of this

BTW I am a farm girl and would point out we are the best farmers in the world, we feed the world