Are We Citizens or Children?

And the beer steins! Let us not forget the fabulous oversized beer steins!

Nonsense. I never said such a thing.

My remark was that Ulrika deserves an exemption from the rules due to her outstanding intellectual prowess and proven record of behavior, interest in SL and other innumerable bona fides. At this time, she has not been granted this.

Again, the rules are here to protect us from idiots and hostile malcontents -- Ulrika is neither of those and should be given a pass so that she may serve whatever higher purposes she wishes to pursue, for the betterment of all of us.

Is Ulrika above the common forum goer in terms of intellectual stature? Obviously so. Not above the rules, though. And that's a problem!

this isn't about you, Coco

She answered you. It just was not the answer you wanted.

My ONLY statement was that you said by her not giving you the answer to Jon's question, she must be admitting guilt. (paraphrasing of course). I disagreed with you on that point. And told you what I thought [read] her to be saying. *That is all I said*

I don't have to re-write anything. I didn't do a damn thing wrong. You just crossed a line when you told me to get a clue. As if I'm any less intelligent than you are. Sheesh!

The reason she will not answer it is very simple. She refuses to practice what she preaches. Others should be censored and their posts moderated, but she should not. When it happens to others, it's for the betterment of SL and the forums. When it happens to her, it's a raging injustice demanding immediate action.

To sum up, it's utter bullshit. Self-serving, egotistical bullshit.

If you want to say my question was off-topic (which it isn't, a poster's history is very much relevant to how full of utter shit they may be, as we all told Cocoa regarding Prokofy's history on the forums, right?) then say it to me. Don't try and yell Cocoa down about it because she didn't post it, I did. The only difference is, I know why it wasn't answered. Because Ulrika can't answer it without looking like a hypocrite.

(And Enabran, Jesus Christ man, is Ulrika keeping your chapstick in her anus? Give the puckering a rest.)

Agreed... However there once was a time when Linden Lab tried to lure in artisans with talk of VR utopia. A lot of people around here still remember that. However, as the "gamers" have come running to SL, we are now all starting to be treated as "gamers" not artisans.

Disagreeing with your call for a need for policy review is not a crime. I could cite more than one post which would lead anyone to believe that Jonquile and I are not partners in crime or anything else. In spite of this, we are able to express agreement with each other on this issue. Likewise, I am able to consider your contributions to SL as being valid and extensive at the same time that I give little credence to your enthusiam for winning the forum game. My opinion on this is informed by your repeated statements that that effect alone. There is no personal attack here unless your history of posts can be considered an attack upon yourself for it is only your own words which have been repeated.

Read my first post on the issue. The current level of forum moderation is a result of user requests for increased surveillance and intervention. My own preference would be for a free hand from the service provider being given to consenting adults in a nonpublic venue whether that venue be viewed as a gaming environment or a societal structure. This course requires self control on behalf of the participating adults. I was also opposed to the tying of forum to inplatform behavior in terms of repurcussions. But I am not so lost in my own vision that I cannot adapt to the wishes of the community at large.

I disagree with your view of citizens with rights being denied to them. The government structure which which you worked hard to develop functions well as a community within SL and you deserve all the commendations given along that line. But this world view is not shared by everyone. I disagree with your attempt to disregard or overide those who do not this view with your persistent push to incorpoarte govermental ideals to the forum. After reading and giving consideration to your posts, I still find this thread to be consistent with the pursuit of your own agenda not reflective of the universal cause.

That whole dark pleasure of power thing is really over the top. LL should use it in its forum moderation job posting.

I never said your post or question was off topic. Ulrika is the one that implied Coco was trying to take the thread off-topic. Here is what I said to Coco:




Whether I agree with Ulrika or not. Her not answering Coco because she thinks it would be off-topic does *not* to me mean she is admitting any guilt. And I pointed this out to Coco. I disagreed with Coco's interpretation of Ulrika's post.

It wasn't until Coco got arrogant and told me to get a clue that I got pissed though.

I have met no avatar more giving of her time and knowledge base than Ulrika Zugzwang. To say that she is about no more than pursuing her own agenda is, I feel, a direct and personal attack on her character.

If I were you I would no doubt report your post to the authorities. Thankfully, I am not you.

This thread concerns the subject of political rights in Second Life and should therefore be moved to the Political Science forum that was created at the thread starter's request.

Excellent point! I think your right... having this thread moved there makes a lot of sense - as well as having a certain 'doublelolplus' value

Siggy.

Please, NO one is above the rules or superior to another!

actually? No.

This isn't a discussion of political theory. It is a discussion of SL forum policy and so belongs in General.

While the irony would be incredibly delicious and I applaud your sense of nasty humour, I respectfully (with a huge smirk on my face) disagree.

well --I am --but we can discuss that another time.

*chuckles* Okay Kendra! I know this quaint little Irish pub a friend built. Meet you there some evening.

Thank you.

I support your right to publicly disagree. That's the whole point of this thread. We should have a right to publicly disagree not just with ourselves but with our government.

I can't imagine how one could support this argument given that no one has defined a "universal cause" and contrasted it with my agenda, which in this case is simply to allow public dissent from governmental opinion.

I see it as a moral obligation to maximize autonomy (freedom) except in the cases where that autonomy interferes with the autonomy of others.

~Ulrika~

I have yet to meet anyone who does everything right or wrong, finding most everyone to be far more complex than that. I acknowledged Ulrika's contributions in response to her suggestion that my posts here were singleminded and a personal attack. I have no doubt that Ulrika is knowledgeable, giving, humorous and kind in addition to being tireless in pursuit of her goals, i.e. agenda, since I don't hold to the stereotypical, one dimensional view of strong women. Having an agenda is how things done. Any intelligent and driven person, which I consider Ulrika to be, would have developed a plan if they intended to get results. That you consider it to be negative is where we differ.

I don't doubt that Ulrika believes that a representative structure would benefit everyone and did not suggest it would be self serving. Where I state my disagreement to be is with her attempt to extend the government structure as developed inworld to the forum and in doing so to disregard those who do not share her world view of sl.

However if one were among the vast number of readers who haven't had this sterling experience with her, then all anyone would have to go on was what is seen here in the forums (unless, of course, she is on one's ignore list).

So, would you make the same judgement about her pursuit of her own agenda if all you had to go on was the local record, minus inWorld and personal interactions?

Sign me "Just wondering"

It takes one to know one. You're a very skilled forum conversationalist yourself.

And that's the problem with the forums for me. Anyone who is skilled enough to debate me logically won't, because they usually agree with me. It's as if the skill set required to communicate logically also provides one with a similar viewpoint of the problem. Thus instead of debating an issue in General, I'm typically reduced to handling personal attacks, attempts to take threads off topic, logical fallacies, all the while hoping that I'll get through to one or two quiet lurkers who might be listening in the background despite the noise.

~Ulrika~

Quote of the Day.

I disagree with you on a lot of issues. But I am too smart to try and debate you. Plus I like you, and I tend to get words twisted sometimes in a good debate. I would hate to come off sounding like an idiot. hehe

Ulrika, as Jim indicated your chosen forum personna does not leave someone with the best impression of you. As I indicated in my previous post, I don't place people in their designated good guys/bad guys box. I took the time to read the history which you had consolidated in a thread on your birthday. I did this primarily because references to your contributions which were made on your behalf did not mesh with the image you choose to present of yourself here in the forum. Not that I expect you to give 2 lindens for my opinion, but if you want me to give your forum activity more credence, a good start would be not to revel in pleasure when you are declared the winner of the forum game.

Repeatedly calling something a government doesn't make it so.

This thread is not about me. This thread is about the censorship of dissent by our government.

If you're in denial of the fact that the Lindens are a virtual-world oligarchy then replace the word "government" with "the group of persons in office at a particular time; administration". (Although I must warn you that the definition of "government" is "the group of persons in office at a particular time; administration".)

~Ulrika~

The thread title indicates that it is about citizens and children. Ulrika is synonymous will SL government. Half of the thread is about you. The question is which half belongs in the Political Science forum and which half belongs in the Teen Grid forum. To be a topic in General, it should be titled "Are we adults or children?" which also would have set a tone more inclusive of those who don't hold your government view of SL.