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Vicious Hounds or "Techie Darwinism"

Enabran Templar
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10-06-2005 10:44
From: Cory Edo
I think its just that really really smart people can't generally tolerate people that are dumber than they are coming into a situation and crying that they aren't being taken seriously or respected.


Replace "dumber" with "less informed" or "less experienced" or even "less patient" and I'd be pretty much in agreement. The table of human discourse has its bread and butter in its participants' background, experience, knowledge and credibility. It's a bit like showing up to a pot-luck without any food but plenty of appetite: Don't expect a warm welcome.
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Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Dianne Mechanique
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10-06-2005 10:45
I have to agree with pretty much the whole thread and another excellent post from Enbran.

The only significant difference between the Google situation as described and our own forum is also interesting and perhaps hinted at above.

The Google employees all know each other "in the flesh" as well as on their forum and it seems to me that this an important "governor" to the situation that we dont enjoy here.

I am not a fan of paintball, but I think (and I know this has been done in the past), that we should all perhaps regularly meet "in person" at some kind of forum party or event.

In the past I have found that the one or two folks I have met in the game that I have previously talked to on the forums, have completely changed my views on said person and generally blown me away with the difference between the "real" person and the "forum voice." I also notice (and this is farily obvious I know) that there is way less opportunity for misunderstanding and anger when I am talking with those folks that I know "in person" than when I am talking to someone that is just a name and a 50 pixel square icon.

Anominity breeds a sort of easy contempt in some cases.

Additionally, because the older forum posters have mostly all met, it kind of has the same chilling effect as Proks "FIC" in that there kind of is a sort of "club" in that regard that the new posters don't have access to.

Perhaps if we all met each other at an event there would be less acrimony and misunderstandings because we would see the whole person as opposed to just a voice in the dark? (just a suggestion) :)
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Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 10:54
From: Enabran Templar
Replace "dumber" with "less informed" or "less experienced" or even "less patient" and I'd be pretty much in agreement. The table of human discourse has its bread and butter in its participants' background, experience, knowledge and credibility. It's a bit like showing up to a pot-luck without any food but plenty of appetite: Don't expect a warm welcome.


I agree with your edit. In fact after further consideration, I'd like to revamp my entire statement:

If you have a bunch of highly intellegent people and you add to the mix someone that isn't up to the intellectual par, but behaves as if they are, its somewhat akin to tossing a bleeding swimmer into a shark tank.

A number of the ubergeeks I've known hinge their personal worth on their intelligence with the tenacity of a pecan-glazed hippo. If you come to their table looking to play their game, you had better be up to snuff or else they'll take great delight in letting you know just how much you have left to learn.
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Cocoanut Koala
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10-06-2005 10:59
Seems to me like some people in this thread are mighty quick to think they know who the intelligent ones are.

And since when was intelligence a prerequisite to being treated decently anyway?

coco
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Maxx Monde
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Join date: 14 Nov 2003
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10-06-2005 11:03
Maybe if stupid had a mascot? People like mascots.
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Buster Peel
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Join date: 7 Feb 2005
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10-06-2005 11:06
From: Cory Edo
... If you have a bunch of highly intellegent people and you add to the mix someone that isn't up to the intellectual par, but behaves as if they are, its somewhat akin to tossing a bleeding swimmer into a shark tank. ...

The behavior you are describing is more like the behavior of a bunch of bullies with low self esteem, not a bunch of "highly intellegent people". Most people who are highly intelligent don't feel the need to defend their intelligence by attacking idiots.

If you have a bunch of like-minded egotists and you add to the mix someone that holds a different opinion, that's when its somewhat akin to tossing a bleeding swimmer into a shark tank.

In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is put to death.

Buster
Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:06
From: Cocoanut Koala
Seems to me like some people in this thread are mighty quick to think they know who the intelligent ones are.

And since when was intelligence a prerequisite to being treated decently anyway?

coco


Boy, I knew THAT was coming.

We're talking about Google employees, and I'm sure for the most part they're all much smarter than I am, that's for sure.

Intelligence is a prerequisite to being treated decently when said person starts freaking out on other people because they feel no one respects their intelligence. It used to be called "putting on airs". There's no shame in not being as smart as someone else, because there's always someone smarter than you. It gets patently annoying and aggrevating when due to some PC-driven concept of equality, you feel everyone else should dumb themselves down to your level.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
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10-06-2005 11:08
From: Cory Edo


This is in no way shape or form a comment on anything, anyone, or any forum anywhere on Planet Earth.


Reported for personal attack.
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Enabran Templar
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10-06-2005 11:09
From: Cocoanut Koala
Seems to me like some people in this thread are mighty quick to think they know who the intelligent ones are.

And since when was intelligence a prerequisite to being treated decently anyway?


I'm not sure what "some people" have to do with the discussion at hand. However, I would advise you to take up whatever irritation you have with "some people" directly, rather than making this thread about "some people," instead of the topic.

As for your query on intelligence, it has no bearing on decent treatment. However, intelligence is, arguably, the most essential pre-requisite to successful argument and debate. Some people are intelligent in ways that are conducive to debate -- these people are successful debaters. Others are successful artistically. These individuals are artistically intelligent. The same applies for mathematics, problem solving, physical dexterity and coordination, others. I recommend a Google search on multiple intelligences if this is interesting to you.

The point being, someone who is highly linguistically intelligent will enjoy much success in debate. This is proper, because that is their strength. A brilliant musician not given to argument but instead gifted with the beauty of mellodic composition will enjoy success, instead, in music competitions, or perhaps record sales. Et cetera.

Bring your chops to the table. If you have no chops to bring, try another table. But hold no illusions that those at every table take their competition very seriously. If you're not good, you'll be crushed by those who are. This tradition has granted humanity a boundless potential.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
blaze Spinnaker
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Join date: 12 Aug 2004
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10-06-2005 11:10
Ok, so why did Prokofy get banned?
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
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10-06-2005 11:11
From: blaze Spinnaker
Ok, so why did Prokofy get banned?


It's about time you showed up, champ! :)
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:14
From: Buster Peel
The behavior you are describing is more like the behavior of a bunch of bullies with low self esteem, not a bunch of "highly intellegent people". Most people who are highly intellegent don't feel the need to defend their intellegents by attacking idiots.


Its called the drive to debate, actually, and its highly common in institutions of higher learning.

Think of it like sports. I'm not getting out on a soccer field with Pele because I'll never in a million years be that good. Someone that's closer to his abilities will get a lot out of playing against him, because its improving his skills. But bet your ass Pele isn't going to let him score.

Debate, especially of a highly specialized topic, can get just as ruthless and bloody. And very few people, ubergeek or not, will personally fault you for an honest mistake or lack of some bit of arcane knowledge. (THAT'S jerky behavior.) But if you walk into Google and jump on said discussion board without knowing what the hell you're talking about, yet act like everyone there should be thrilled with the science you're dropping on their heads, chances are they'll jump you without thinking twice.
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Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:15
From: blaze Spinnaker
Ok, so why did Prokofy get banned?


Because he dots his "i"s with hearts and can't sit at the cool kids table in the cafeteria.
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Cocoanut Koala
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10-06-2005 11:17
From: Cory Edo
Boy, I knew THAT was coming.

We're talking about Google employees, and I'm sure for the most part they're all much smarter than I am, that's for sure.

Intelligence is a prerequisite to being treated decently when said person starts freaking out on other people because they feel no one respects their intelligence. It used to be called "putting on airs". There's no shame in not being as smart as someone else, because there's always someone smarter than you. It gets patently annoying and aggrevating when due to some PC-driven concept of equality, you feel everyone else should dumb themselves down to your level.

I don't believe anyone has requested that others "dumb themselves down" to their level on these forums. At all, much less due to any PC-driven concept of equility. (Which is entirely different from the concept of equal opportunity.)

coco
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Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:18
From: Cocoanut Koala
I don't believe anyone has requested that others "dumb themselves down" to their level on these forums. At all, much less due to any PC-driven concept of equility. (Which is entirely different from the concept of equal opportunity.)

coco


Why is it always about these forums? I'm talking about Google.
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Cocoanut Koala
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10-06-2005 11:19
From: Cory Edo
Its called the drive to debate, actually, and its highly common in institutions of higher learning.

Think of it like sports. I'm not getting out on a soccer field with Pele because I'll never in a million years be that good. Someone that's closer to his abilities will get a lot out of playing against him, because its improving his skills. But bet your ass Pele isn't going to let him score.

Debate, especially of a highly specialized topic, can get just as ruthless and bloody. And very few people, ubergeek or not, will personally fault you for an honest mistake or lack of some bit of arcane knowledge. (THAT'S jerky behavior.) But if you walk into Google and jump on said discussion board without knowing what the hell you're talking about, yet act like everyone there should be thrilled with the science you're dropping on their heads, chances are they'll jump you without thinking twice.

Well, tell ya what, this not only isn't a soccer field, it isn't even a debate meet. Where, I might add, you don't get points for personal attacks.

The only thing we all have in common on these forums is the fact that we all play SL. We also have in common the Forum Guidelines.

coco
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Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:20
From: Cocoanut Koala
Well, tell ya what, this not only isn't a soccer field, it isn't even a debate meet. Where, I might add, you don't get points for personal attacks.

The only thing we all have in common on these forums is the fact that we all play SL. We also have in common the Forum Guidelines.

coco


Holy one track mind, man.

GOOGLE.
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Enabran Templar
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10-06-2005 11:21
This thread was going so well. :(

edit: Though I admit... the last few exchanges did secretly amuse me. :)
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:23
From: Enabran Templar
This thread was going so well. :(


I'm sowwy. :( I'll save my snarky retorts for Off Topic.



/GOOOOOOAL
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Enabran Templar
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Join date: 26 Aug 2004
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10-06-2005 11:24
From: Cory Edo
I'm sowwy. :( I'll save my snarky retorts for Off Topic.


Nay, lass. See my edit. :)
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
10-06-2005 11:27
Intelligent, decent people have no need to resort to harsh rebukes within any debate.


"Smart" is a cheap commodity, easier to import/export every day.

The days of having to tolerate rude people within tech are long over. Hostility can only exist at Google if hostility is tolerated.


I would be very wary of encouraging a hostile culture anywhere, under any pretext.

It merely validates cruelty.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
10-06-2005 11:29
From: Desmond Shang
I would be very wary of encouraging a hostile culture anywhere, under any pretext.

It merely validates cruelty.


I'm afraid I don't see anything endorsing either hostility or cruelty. Please point it out for me. :)
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
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10-06-2005 11:32
From: Enabran Templar
I'm not sure what "some people" have to do with the discussion at hand. However, I would advise you to take up whatever irritation you have with "some people" directly, rather than making this thread about "some people," instead of the topic.

As for your query on intelligence, it has no bearing on decent treatment. However, intelligence is, arguably, the most essential pre-requisite to successful argument and debate. Some people are intelligent in ways that are conducive to debate -- these people are successful debaters. Others are successful artistically. These individuals are artistically intelligent. The same applies for mathematics, problem solving, physical dexterity and coordination, others. I recommend a Google search on multiple intelligences if this is interesting to you.

The point being, someone who is highly linguistically intelligent will enjoy much success in debate. This is proper, because that is their strength. A brilliant musician not given to argument but instead gifted with the beauty of mellodic composition will enjoy success, instead, in music competitions, or perhaps record sales. Et cetera.

Bring your chops to the table. If you have no chops to bring, try another table. But hold no illusions that those at every table take their competition very seriously. If you're not good, you'll be crushed by those who are. This tradition has granted humanity a boundless potential.

Considering that we are all on this thread discussing intelligence (or the lack of it) among other things (I was not the one who brought it up), if I make a comment on how some people on this thread think they know who on these boards is intelligent and who is not as intelligent, and are making arguments based on that faulty premise, then my comment about "some people on this thread" thinking they know who is intelligent and who isn't is completely relevant to a thread in which people are talking about intelligence.

I recommend that you stop trying to explain intelligence to people who just might be hugely more intelligent than you are in quite a few dimensions.

Those who are actually intelligent - to the point where it is almost a burden - tend to learn early on not to flaunt it, and also learn early on that it is largely a quirk of biology, much like being tall or short, as well as a result of educational advantages.

Those who are actually intelligent are smart enough to know never to underestimate the other guy, or think that you can actually estimate his intelligence without knowing him rather well for a fair amount of time.

Those who are actually intelligent don't need to crow about it on some internet forum, or form groups around themselves to validate the fact and/or exclude those not deemed worthy.

Those who are kind as well as intelligent know that the winner is not the one who puts the other down most cleverly or thoroughly, but attempts to discuss in such a way as all parties can save face and be treated with human dignity which is everyone's birthright.

Those who are actually intelligent know not to engage in food fights, even for fun, unless only with others who think it's fun, too. Otherwise it might be construed as assault.

coco
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Cory Edo
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10-06-2005 11:36
From: Cocoanut Koala
Considering that we are all on this thread discussing intelligence (or the lack of it) among other things (I was not the one who brought it up), if I make a comment on how some people on this thread think they know who on these boards is intelligent and who is not as intelligent, and are making arguments based on that faulty premise, then my comment about "some people on this thread" thinking they know who is intelligent and who isn't is completely relevant to a thread in which people are talking about intelligence.


No offense, but that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Try breaking it up into more than one run-on sentence.

From: Cocoanut Koala
I recommend that you stop trying to explain intelligence to people who just might be just more intelligent than you are in quite a few dimensions.


They might be....or maybe not. Let's get those SAT scores up here people!

From: Cocoanut Koala
Those who are actually intelligent - to the point where it is almost a burden - tend to learn early on not to flaunt it, and also learn early on that it is largely a quirk of biology, much like being tall or short, as well as a result of educational advantages.

Those who are actually intelligent are smart enough to know never to underestimate the other guy, or think that you can actually estimate his intelligence without knowing him rather well for a fair amount of time.

Those who are actually intelligent don't need to crow about it on some internet forum, or form groups around themselves to validate the fact and/or exclude those not deemed worthy.

Those who are kind as well as intelligent know that the winner is not the one who puts the other down most cleverly or thoroughly, but attempts to discuss in such a way as all parties can save face and be treated with human dignity which is everyone's birthright.

Those who are actually intelligent know not to engage in food fights, even for fun, unless only with others who think it's fun, too. Otherwise it might be construed as assault.

coco


I recommend that you stop trying to explain intelligence to people who just might be just more intelligent than you are in quite a few dimensions.
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blaze Spinnaker
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Join date: 12 Aug 2004
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10-06-2005 11:36
So, why did Prokofy get banned?
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