Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Tartarus: A public proposal to Linden Lab

Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-04-2004 16:06
This is the proposal to Linden Labs to fund tartarus, im looking for community opinion on the project as well as linden support! Post here if you think this kicks total ass! :D


Edit: thanks to korgs posts, I am making this a DRAMA FREE THREAD!

This was written by Torley Torgeson and Oz Spade, with help from Francis Chung, Ryen Jade, Adam Zaius, and Rickard Roentegen.

------------
Overview
------------

The Tartarus Project is an immersive cyberpunk gaming experience and community, taking place within an expansive city and its surrounding areas.

------------
Gaming Experience
------------

Tartarus will be unique in its presence in Second Life. It will allow players to directly affect the storyline and environment, with a style inspired by games like the Deus Ex and Half-Life series. Puzzles, mission-running, and first-person combat will not only be some of the activities players can do, but can also set up and build for others to do as well.

Use of NPCs will be limited -- instead, other users will roleplay to help progress story lines. Some factions and groups will be setup during testing, allowing players to become part of those or to even start their own. We will be actively involved in the roleplaying process as well, adding depth while setting the mood and tone.

Accordingly, the storyline will be progressive -- flexible and scalable -- and reflect player activities. For replayability, we are allowing a player's large-scale mission to possibly permanently affect the world, and thus become a part of Tartarus's storyline and history.

Tartarus will also feature modified walking and running enhancements to better recreate the feel of FPS combat, giving players better control and a more intuitive feel.

Players will be able to find weapons and other equipment in different ways: buying them from stores or other players, building them themselves, acquiring them on missions, etc.

Weapons will also be component-based, allowing a player to buy a modular "scope" and then attach it to many different weapons that are compatible. The main system used for weaponry will be the Seburo system coding, which has a prominent pedigree in SL history.

------------
Location
------------

Tartarus will be set within a cyberpunk-style city and its surrounding areas. The city style will be similar to those depicted in popular cyberpunk books and movies. We will draw on the legacy of the genre's strengths, and contribute our own mythology as we take established cliches and warp them into a fusion of new creativity. While the city will be a grimy, futuristic, and technologically advanced city, faint beams of hope will glimmer through the tall superskyscrapers, unsafe alleys, and dark sewer passages. Via expansion, the surrounding areas will include residential, slummy buildings, and open fields full of debris, as well as more pristine locations as a counterpoint to the chaos.

Ambience will be set in many ways through sounds, sim-controllable aspects, and other visual effects, creating a fully immersive setting for the players.

This isn't just a game: the city will also allow for players to live within the world, providing apartments and other housing for them. Stores, bars and clubs, restaurants, and other buildings expected in such a city will be present in Tartarus, but themed specially for the purpose.

In short: Tartarus will be unlike other locations currently in SL, providing unique settings and a new experience for visitors.

------------
Developers
------------

The developers of Tartarus will largely consist of those in the associated Celina and Seventh Circle groups, a veritable thinktank of Second Life creators. What follows is by no means a comprehesive list, but a taste to whet your appetite for the collective talent involved who are committed to the project.

Some members of these groups and their fields of specialty and accomplishments are:

Ryen Jade - Akar, Fallen-Faith Weapons
Bonecrusher Slate - Route 66, Americana, Route 66 vehicles
Kats Kothari - Kats Kreatures
Chosen Few - spaceships in Indigo, the Sci-Fi Museum
Francis Chung - Seburo, Frantastic Jetski, many other scripting achievements
Nick Fairlight - various builds and project involvements
Cornelius Bach - numerous vehicles under the "Bach-Sunchaser" brand
Oz Spade - The Black Sun (a past build), History Project, Atlas, Aleph
Rickard Roentgen - R-Type vehicles, general builds
Adam Zaius - Aleph, Gigas Vendor, SL map, many other scripting achievements
Strife Onizuka - scripter of open-source combat system
Marcos Fonzarelli - ARMORD roboticist, general builds
Torley Torgeson - music & sound design (MP3s and info @ www.torley.com )

In addition, after Tartarus is opened to the public, the players themselves will in large part be developers as well. We are optimistic to take advantage of the things that make Second Life what it is, and to allow the players to help shape the world. We want to embrace this communal spirit: everything from social aspects, storyline, weapons, vehicles, and even location and landscape will be able to be developed in some form by the players themselves.

------------
Other Features
------------

Community will bloom, as general Second Life residents and players interact and live within the city.

The economy will be using the Linden Dollar, the Second Life standard. It, of course, allows users to make L$ from gameplay achievements within Tartarus, and is convertable to USD.

Transportation presents many options: users will be able to make standard use of their feet, or choose from a wide selection of different vehicles which will be custom-made for Tartarus. The city will "no-fly" to provide an optimal combat environment, and promote an explorable atmosphere as well as fun use of other transportation methods.

------------
Visions of the Future
------------

There is historical mythology surrounding our work. Names such "Tartarus" -- of the Greek underworld -- and "Seventh Circle" -- from Dante's Inferno -- are a sly nod to the great storytelling of civilizations past, as well as to the conflicted drama and contrasted interplay of human beings. As long as humans have lived, stories have been passed down from generation to generation. And while the medium changes, the messages remain the same.

It is said that all science fiction, no matter how distantly set in the future, is really about the present. From Neuromancer to Blade Runner to Ghost in the Shell to The Matrix, the genre of cyberpunk has created a "neomythology" of its own mythos, such as that of the "rogue hacker" or the "conspiracy involving multinational corporations". It is only fitting that such a visionary medium as Second Life, inspired by Snow Crash, be self-referentially celebrated by the Tartarus Project.

One philosophical parallel we are exploring is the juxtaposition between advanced technology and the primal savagery within each and every human. Another curious observation is how we can become more human through technology, expressing ourselves in ways that were unfamiliar to us before. Obviously, there are social ramifications involved with these issues. Observing how Second Life has already positively impacted real lives, such as empowering the disabled to communicate, has led us to the path of wanting to not only provide a cool gaming experience, but a platform for futurist discussion and serious consideration of the following question: "What happens next?"

There is no singular answer. But in paying homage to what has come before and travelling onwards with our ideas, Team Tartarus is hoping to spark inquiry and relevant reaction pertaining to the future-as-present.

We are excited about creating our own stories -- our own mythology, and sharing it via Second Life!


------------
Challenges
------------

The Tartarus Project is ambitious, and with its size and scope, is full of challenges. Thankfully, the people involved have an experienced history of excellence within the Second Life community. We come from a diverse plethora of backgrounds, but have a unified vision.

Some of the major challenges will be setting up and maintaining a community, as well as consistent entertainment and an ongoing "wow factor" to keep people coming back for more. The group believes that we can accomplish this, and that allowing the players to participate in the development will help as well. It's a win-win situation, since a strength of SL is the collaboration and the lucidity with which ideas can be shared and realized.

Beyond this, a major challenge is obtaining a dedicated sim in which to house the city. To begin with, one sim should be sufficient to provide a foundation of success for our later endeavors. And further in the timeline, we would like to have the project -- initial city plus future expansion -- span multiple sims.

A credo of Second Life is "Think Big, Build BIGGER". Having come to Second Life to express our creativity and share this joy with others, we're certainly up for the challenge. Being confident that we have overcome the challenges before us and with an exciting roadmap planned, we now look forward to the future for all of us. It's a big place and we need your help.


Thank you graciously for your consideration of this proposal. :-)
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
12-04-2004 17:17
Ryen this sounds interesting - could you expand on what you mean by, "This is the proposal to Linden Labs to fund tartarus.."

What specially are you asking Linden Lab to do? Fund what? with L$, US$, inKind?

Thanks


:cool:
_____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
12-04-2004 17:27
Merwan, to clarify, this is in response to the initial phase of the SL Incubator Program that Robin Linden posted about here:

/20/b2/27145/1.html

Obviously, much is still tentative -- and very preliminary in some respects -- but we're taking the initiative in getting committments on the table. We will develop ideas and bring them into fruition further in the timeline, and hopefully with continuing dialog with the Lindens, further specifics can be answered.

Sounds excellent, eh? ;)
_____________________
Prong Thetan
SimCast CEO
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 168
12-04-2004 17:28
From: Ryen Jade
Weapons will also be component-based, allowing a player to buy a modular "scope" and then attach it to many different weapons that are compatible. The main system used for weaponry will be the Seburo system coding, which has a prominent pedigree in SL history.


It was my understanding that any project funded by the lindens would not draw a profit. If this is corect, would that mean that the weapons would be free?

Sorry Ryen, but I had to ask...
_____________________
SimCast Entertainment:

Cutting edge game development in Second Life.
Nick Fairlight
Humanoid Typhoon
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 494
12-04-2004 17:47
From: Prong Thetan
It was my understanding that any project funded by the lindens would not draw a profit. If this is corect, would that mean that the weapons would be free?

Sorry Ryen, but I had to ask...


Depends, we might input an in-game(Tartarus) currency that you earn through jobs/missions/etc.
_____________________
I tried to find a topic, but I kept getting distracted by that slightly offensive photo of Arnold.

-Jeska Linden
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-04-2004 17:55
From: Nick Fairlight
Depends, we might input an in-game(Tartarus) currency that you earn through jobs/missions/etc.


We might do this, but with the incubator program we can get any profit that is made (of couse, we need to pay off the 1K and 200 a month first).
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
Jonny Dusk
The ArtIst of War
Join date: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 477
12-04-2004 18:13
Can I play?! :p

This sounds awesome, there are sooooooo many kick ass ideas out there, many inevitably fall by the wayside. Sounds like you've got a good start, and the idea is the shizzle snizzle you crizzle fizzles!!!!

I can animate a little bit :D
Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
12-04-2004 18:22
I'd play if the lag was manageable.
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-04-2004 18:28
From: Aaron Levy
I'd play if the lag was manageable.


Already addressed, lag management is our #2 priority (second to finishing the game!)
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
Hail! Tartarus!
12-04-2004 18:47
Ryen, i'm SO glad to see Tartarus is still plowing along.. refusing to lay down and die.

i'm in total agreement, regardless of my recent extended absence, with the existance of Tartarus. i can clearly see the relevancy of the vision as it relates to Second Life and culture as a whole.

consider me in. again.. or still.. or.. um.. yeah, i'm easing back into SL, so i'd be happy to help where i can.


i second the motion of appeal to Linden Labs in concern of support. this player-creation experience would be a badge to wear proudly in display of what SecondLife inspires of it's citizens.. it's creators.
_____________________
"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it."
- Philip Linden

"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be."
- Willy Wonka (circa 1971)

SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-04-2004 18:50
Cybin, your still a team member, I didnt include you because I didnt know what happened to you! Feel free to create music tracks if you wish, but at this time we can really use some sound artists for gunshots and the like :D!
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
12-04-2004 18:58
Cybin, Ryen told me about you. Will be thrilled to meet you inworld at last. :)
_____________________
Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
oh yeah.. sound!
12-04-2004 19:18
Ryen, thanks for the reminder! i forgot all about the need for sound effects and music..

somewhere along the line i should just get a list of all effects and music needed. at that point i'll start working on them, giving you a copy of each as i finish.

it's good to be back!!

-

Torley, i look forward to meeting you as well.. although i get the odd sensation that i've met you once before. either way, it's good to be on the same team.

hey, i just checked out a bit of "The Autistic World of Torley".. good stuff! should i assume you've got your hands working some musical magic for Tartarus? i suere hope so!
_____________________
"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it."
- Philip Linden

"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be."
- Willy Wonka (circa 1971)

SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
Jonny Dusk
The ArtIst of War
Join date: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 477
12-04-2004 19:25
My bad!!!! "Can I play?!", kinda meant like, are you lookin for animators? This seems ideal for some seriously insane, toke induced, custom animations in this biaaatch :D

*gnaws and bites on keyboard before going berserkergang!!!*

I'm kinda lookin for something to get my grubby little paws on!!! Still lookin' round but I smell sweetness here :D Hit me up anytime if your intrested in some anims :D

Best of luck to all!

Rock, rock on!!!
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-04-2004 19:44
Sorry jonny, not at this time! We have more then (THAN) enough qualified animators on our team, but if we ever need ya its invite only ;)

However, we will take a there approach to created content. You submit a gun, armor, texture, animation, furniture, ect to us, and we will consider adding it to tartarus (based on quality and how it fits in with the overall theme).
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
Jonny Dusk
The ArtIst of War
Join date: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 477
12-04-2004 19:58
No problem R,

Still lookin forward to comin over to play. Yeah "play" like playing the game.. like at the sim.. like uhh... :confused: ya know :D

Best of luck!!!!
Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
12-04-2004 21:40
From: Nick Fairlight
Depends, we might input an in-game(Tartarus) currency that you earn through jobs/missions/etc.


If it is funded by LL you will receive nothing... no dwell, and you wouldnt be allowed to charge for anything game related... I am for TEMPORARY support by LL, but if you are looking for something permannent I think you guys have a well developed group to pitch in together and fund it yourselves :) You will also make money back from weapons, dwell etc.
Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
12-04-2004 21:43
From: Ryen Jade
We might do this, but with the incubator program we can get any profit that is made (of couse, we need to pay off the 1K and 200 a month first).


umm huh?
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
12-04-2004 23:07
From: Sensual Casanova
If it is funded by LL you will receive nothing... no dwell, and you wouldnt be allowed to charge for anything game related... I am for TEMPORARY support by LL, but if you are looking for something permannent I think you guys have a well developed group to pitch in together and fund it yourselves :) You will also make money back from weapons, dwell etc.


Heya Sensual... actually, dwell will likely still be doled out. :)

As per the reference thread (and again, this is not final):

Traffic awards (dwell paid in L$) will continue to be paid nightly, recognizing the value of popular places and well-attended events in SL.

/20/b2/27145/1.html
_____________________
Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
12-04-2004 23:17
It says after the "loan" is payed.. I am still a bit confused how this program wil work, IF they decide to go with it..
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
12-04-2004 23:39
From: Sensual Casanova
It says after the "loan" is payed.. I am still a bit confused how this program wil work, IF they decide to go with it..


You're not the only one -- there is a lot to be filled out.

The future will hopefully be an exciting place to be. :)
_____________________
Korg Stygian
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
12-05-2004 00:27
Simple question(s).

If this is an application for funding, why is it being posted in the forums? Essentially equivalen to the N-berg project initial propisal in nature - at least to some extent, why post this in the forums at all?
----Those who will post in support of it can be expected to fall into 1 of 3 groups.
----1. Friends of the current development team.... whose opinion on the matter is tainted.
----2. Those residents who are offering opinion/support based on limited information which has been provided in a propagandistic fashion (aka advertisement) by the developers.)
----3. Hangers-on, followers, and miscelleaneous others like myself who do not fit into the first two categories.

---If the purpose of this thread was to actually measure interest in the Tarturus project - that could already be determined, to some extent, by archived threads.
---If the purpose was to "pressure"/influence LL to actually giving support... see the above question.
---If it's to simple attract attention to a project known to be Ryen's baby or to Ryen himself.. well, here's some more attention.

None of this is likely to actually influence LL into selecting this project for support - this being the thread here.

So, I ask again. What was the purpose of this thread?
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-05-2004 08:46
^ To inform the public of our plannings, which just so happens to also be a detailed plan which we will also use for funding.
_____________________
From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused:
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
12-05-2004 09:46
Ryen's signature line with the comment about fucking a box turtle is somehow discordant to me after reading the somewhat abstract super-positive proposal.
_____________________
-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-
Korg Stygian
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
12-05-2004 10:14
From: Ryen Jade
This is the proposal to Linden Labs to fund tartarus, im looking for community opinion on the project as well as linden support! Post here if you think this kicks total ass! :D

Well, based on this opening lline...
1. No.. I don't think it kicks total ass... but that's just my opinion.
2. Looks to me like a cry for attention from the "non-Linden" public - especially considering the relatively long-standing, very public, near-hystrionic, screwball relationship between yourself, Ryen, and LL....for a specfic purpose.
3. And finally, it appears to be a strategy to try to influence LL to fund the project - something they have already rejected multiple times for various reasons - all unpublished.

Then again, I am not surprised. Being a curmudgeon, I don't expect anything different from the forums - certainly this barely measures on the drahma scale, though it definitely registers there.
1 2