Teen grid observations...

no parents, no teachers

No thanks, Lindens. To say that I'm not even allowed to get into the teen grid to see what my kids up to? Forget that. I can monitor their emails, their chat logs, the websites they visit, the games they play, when they can use the Internet, who they can contact when online, where they can go and what they can do. But once they log into Second Life, I'm in the dark? Talk about creating a place for child killers and pedophiles. I've seen the your idea of liaisons and how few and far between they are.

"We will rely on abuse reports as we do now."

LOL... do you know how many abuse reports I've filed that have been acted on?!

Robin Linden: What happens when someone on the teen grid turns 18?
Robin Linden: People 18 and over are not allowed in the teen grid
Robin Linden: Once someone turns 18, they will graduate, and move, with inventory, to the main grid.
Robin Linden: Like all rites of passage, we anticipate this move will be a bitter-sweet one, but necessary. We'll try to ease the pain by making a celebration of it, like graduation in real life.

That whole answer is stupid.

The whole IGE/GOM answers were stupid to. If you're going to make sure that GOM and IGE only do business to people who are over 18, and no one 18 is allowed to login to the teen grid, WHO'S GOING TO LOG IN TO DO THE SALE? Teens can't buy L$ on GOM and IGE... adults can't login to transfer the credits the kids aren't supposed to be able to buy!?!

The comments about the Playboy comments made me laugh... teens are going to hide stuff like crazy... I like one comment someone made... Have the Lindens spent ANY time with teenages boys lately!?

What do you propose then?

I know many responsible teens who would be fine in the teens grid.

NOT having a teen grid and spending their time with people who are willing to pay $195+ a month.

What? Forgive me for being dense, but is that your solution to your objection to the teen grid?

I'm not willing to pay $200 a month. I use the grid.

Therefore, I shouldn't have my issues dealt with?

Try again.

LF

Jeez... Do you trust your kids to do anything right?

I trust my kids everyday. I trust that I have taught them well enough to avoid situations where I should be getting all concerned.

And I certainly don't go monitoring their emails, chat logs, websites, and games.

- Ace

Aaron,

I agree with you completely - the entire town hall was surprising to me in its lack of any kind of clarity. I asked Haney a question about IGE/GOM but it was never asked, though a follow up question (which produced the Playboy answer) was. If the Lindens are really interested in making the teen grid to be all the lofty, rewarding things they hope it will be, they need to scrap any ideas of letting GOM/IGE anywhere near it, they need to find someway to effectively deal with mature content, and they need to go beyond the honor system in terms of knowning whether adults are in the system with children.

I definitely think Second Life has creative value to teenagers - it can be a great outlet and an interesting educational tool, but it has as many pitfalls as the web and a chat service like AOL combined, with the addition apparently of money thrown into the mix to get them hooked early on spending RL money for virtual money and items. I will remain optimistic about it as I trust Linden Lab, but it seems more an idea borne out of venture capital inteference than altruism.

If I was a child predator or creep of some sort, SL for Teens would be just great! Come on! A whole grid of people that I know are teens! At least if we let teens into the main grid it would be hard to pick them out. This seems almost inviting to predators. To me at least. But hey, AOL chatrooms are not always just kids either. I say teach your kids about saftey online like Ace does and this should work out okay.

Aaron, you monitor everything your kids do online? That's sick. Give the kids a break, if you raised them with any decency they'll be fine.

I think monitoring everything they do is overkill, but I think that taking a completely hands off approach to your children's internet usage is irresponsible.

Eh, if the stupid ones get caught up in something, all the better for the gene pool

Removed.

Jesus, it was a joke!

Although I stand by what I originally said about it to you, I removed it - you may think it is funny but it's in really poor taste.

I tend to take very, very little seriously.

[/i]



Of course I can monitor what my daughter is doing on the teen grid...I walk into her room and look over her shoulder...Yep, pretty easy! Funny how things work when I pay the ISP, the electric bill, heat, house payment and bought her computer!

Bwhahahah! The power of MONEY!

The problem I see in your post is that if you are allowed in as a parent, all parents must be allowed in. Likewise with teachers.

Many pedophiles, exploiters and scam artists are parents. Likewise with teachers. Being a parent or teacher does not make anyone above suspicion, as much as it would in an ideal world. (Where this would all be a non-issue anyway.)

I would much prefer if the kid grid had absolutely no contact with the adult grid, aside from Linden contact. No content. No economics. No web pages to buy or sell goods on. Also, no tier fees. If LL is truly concerned with the learning/teaching aspect, there is no reason to allow any of that.

What concerned me most about Robin's comments at the Town Hall is that all security measures seem to come after the fact. No preventative measures, only consequences. Pedophiles already know what they do is against the law, and yet we think the threat of banning will deter them? You cannot undo something by banning the offender. Until more precautions can be taken to prevent rather than punish, I don't think LL is ready to take on this responsibility.

I agree Jonquille - and have suggested the currency for the Kid Grid NOT be L$...See -

KidGrid Bucks - Name 'em



But who knows what LL will decided to do...

The value of Town Hall meetings is they give everyone a chance to ask questions, and to a limited extent, debate important issues.

But there are serious downsides to trying to do one in a virtual world. First are the limitations of the chat medium (see my blog entry). The comment I made about Playboy was an attempt, obviously misguided, to try to add a little humor to the situation, not to trivialize the concerns being addressed.

Another downside is that sometimes it's very difficult to frame a complex response on the spur of the moment, without coming across as vague. I think the fact that some people have referred to the Town Hall meetings as unsatisfying PR events is a reflection of this problem.

You have raised important questions about the economy, the involvement of parents on the grid, the impact on overall customer service, and of child safety. These are concerns that we share, that we've been working on, and rest assured we won't launch the teen grid until we feel can do so without harming the existing user base, and also provide acceptable levels of protection for the teens involved.

Thank you Robin for your heart felt reflection on what surely must have been a difficult situation!

This is the stuff that binds our amazing community - that those charged with the difficult tasks are also so wonderfully accessible and accountable!

And yes, sometimes what's invisible can be made visible...

Merwan you can't do that when they are at school, or at a library, or at a cafe.

I don't have kids of Internet age yet (just learning to use a mouse), but I have every right as a parent to log in to each and every thing that they do to see what they are up to. I wouldn't unless I have reason to though, don't think I'm a monitor nut.

I have the power to monitor everything they do, log into any of their accounts (granted, that I know of), and see what they are up to.

BUT the Lindens will TAKE **MY MONEY** from **MY** credit cards and say that I'm NOT ALLOWED to see what my kids are up to.

Do you know how a lot of the child predators are caught? Moms and dads logging into their kids' ICQ accounts and seeing who contacts them. That's what cops do! They pose as kids and teens to get the pedophiles to come out of the shadows. A "no-adults-allowed" grid will get the pedophiles RUNNING TO IT!

Where to pedophiles hang out? Playgrounds. Schools. Kids' play areas in malls. Places where kids -- and usually only kids -- will be. Duh.

If Lindens don't see where this is heading, then I feel very very sorry for them not being in touch with life online today. When my daughter was born, out of curiosity, I ran the address that my wife and I were living at at the time through the Florida sexual predator database and to my horror found out that 11 -- ELEVEN!!! -- pedophiles lived within 20 miles of our home. This was in Brevard county, Florida, home of NASA! Of those 11, I did some research and found that 6 of them had made contact with their victims via the internet.

Liaisons and "abuse reports" are not the answer. Direct involvement of the parents' is. You wouldn't go to a playground that parents are barred from. You wouldn't send your kids to a daycare that parents are not allowed to visit -- are even told they are BANNED from. What the heck kind of thinking is that!?

Thank you Robin for chiming in. I'm still in "very protective father mode". My daughter just turned 2 a few weeks ago and several months before that, my wife and I made the decision to move away from a part of the country we love because of the surprisingly high number of sexual offenders in our own community. The online world breeds sexual predators like rabbits. I am just very concerned that the teen grid, as presently discussed, would not be very good for parents and their kids.

From that viewpoint Aaron, its simply a 'lose-lose' situation.

It seems that they (LL) has limited ability to enforce the 'no-adults' in Teen SL. Some adult has to use a cc to sign up, so how are they going to make sure that there is an actual teen using the account vs. an adult? From what I can see, they can't.

Noone is forcing you to sign your kids up. If it bothers you that much, you should seriously consider buying them some non-internet enabled toys.

Out of curiousity, how many people live within 20 miles of your home (at the time you pulled up the predator information)?

Also, Aaron, what would your plans be on monitoring your kids IF adults were allowed in Teen SL? Basically, I'm wondering how different it would be vs. checking over thier shoulder periodically?


So, all those adults at the playgrounds are pedophiles?