The "Selling" of Estate Island Land

The sims look great, Anshe, especially Oslo... good luck on the venture!

khamon was wrong about the dwell. group deeded estate land apparently contributes daily dwell to the group members equally. incentive dwell points of course still go to the estate owner as the primary tier contributor so to speak as island rental is a separate charge from regular tier fees.

I agree.

When I go to the find land tab or look at Land for sale, I am expecting to see only "real" land, not estate land with restricted transfer rights. If LL wants to support the sale of plots on estates, that is fine, but they need to have a separate drop down option in the search and color on the land for sale maps.

Nothing against Anshe here, more power to anyone who can thrive here. I just don't think that LL fully thought out how it would be used in the day to day life of the game.

I'm in the "none of it is really 'owned'" camp, myself. In all honesty, none of it is - at core we're doing nothing more than renting static database space from Linden Labs. The only difference is in how it's distributed.

Even though I'm not a big fan of capitalism-at-large, I say if Anshe, Blue, or anyone wishes to go ahead and subcontract land, go for it. If it's an acceptable business model, and it works, and it's less expensive, where is the problem?

Now, I'm all for the ability to selectively "filter" searches in some way. I have been for some time. In the same sense, I feel that land that is reparcelled out in this manner should be allowed to be so. I feel that both sides have a valid argument - the sellers for their right to advertising space, and the opposition for their right to information the way they want to see it.

I just don't see why these two need be mutually exclusive. Add a more powerful search filter, take two pills, and call in the morning.

SIDE NOTE: Nice plug for your business, yes I noticed and no I dont think it belongs in the general forums. Anshechung.com sells a product for a profit. Last I knew you could not advertize in the forums, has that changed too?

As far as what your doing on your islands, more power to you.

I personally would perfer to buy the land and resell it; as then I have a chance to recoup my investment. Rent goes out the door. I can see a need for it tho, social players who dont build, who don't want to create anything that ppl would want to come see and be a part of. yeah its nice that they have a place to call home so kudos for giving them a place.

As far as dwell goes I used to run some free apartments and I shared the dwell with the ppl who lived there. For me it seemed like the right thing to do. After all it was my residents generating the dwell on my land.

This is interesting and should be interesting watching how it progresses.

I would like to make one suggestion, a "For Rent" tab in the find menu. That way there will be no mistake by anyone as to what they are realy getting for their money. I think its important both for the ppl looking to rent and those renting.

Cat

Well thanks for the correction Khamon Well then that changes my opinion on the dwell it's nice that it gets shared with the residents As for the development bonus, well the owner should get something for putting out all that cash. Most times island owners run at a loss so every little bit helps

Cat

I don't think it has changed, but considering this thread was started by someone other than Anshe about her estates and they were just pictures with no rental/pricing information, I don't know that I'd classify it as a 'plug'.

Understand, I am not against the arrangement, per se. After all, I live in a similar sort of arrangement myself.

I just think it should be made very clear - from the outset - that you are "buying" land from an individual, rather than from the game. Apparently that isn't the case right now. We don't need more layers of things that people don't understand, particularly new people, especially when it can be made clear.

coco

I agree that there could be some improvement to user interface. I already suggested to Lindens months ago to add one popup with buying conditions. For example there are special sims with zoning rules run by Lindens and meanwhile I met several unhappy people who bought land there without any chance to learn about the restrictions.

Different colors on the world map may also help and some info available in the land finder.

However, I would not agree to have my land sales on my new continent classified as "rental". I offer both buying and renting options there and it is two clearly different deals.

i do believe that ll realize the problem with the current method and intend to include a rental feature in the next version if not one of the near releases. rather than add a rental tab to FIND, adding a new type of land for "sale," icon and all, should suffice.

the solution works for first land which shows up on the map and in FIND, but is not available for me to buy when i get there. i know that though because it has an icon that indicates that it's first land.

oh and cat, if the wind changes, your face will be stuck like that and we all might have to giggle at you.

"If you want extreme freedom without compromise and don't care for beauty this place is not for you."

Hmm...so mainland owners not care for beauty. Bah.

Naw Juro I'm talking about the plug in her sig. Its a link to her site where you pay rl us$ for lindens. or buy her land again rl$ exchanged for us$.

I think its only fair that I point it out, just as I have with others in the past.

Cat

Agreed Coco.

I'm still not convinced that it is buying as when you buy land from the lindens you get all the perks not just some of the perks. I would have to clasify as renting as the new owner never would get the development bonus on that land. I see that as the biggest difference between buying from a reseller and buying from LL.

Cat

Anshe; I think it would be in your best interest to keep everything above board and be complety honest about the perks and drawbacks. If some of your land is for sale then it would fall under the "for sale" tab. If it is not completly for sale, as in leased, rented, time shared then yes it would fall under "rented land" tab. I don't see any draw backs for you as far as those options go. It's been stated a few times in this tread that noobs do not understand the buying process. I think for the greater good of sl as a whole no noob should ever feel slighted by a deal that they did not completly understand. That cannot be good for LL. Besides which it would mean that you would not have to issue a refund because someone leased/rented from you when they thought they were buying the land entirly to use as they wish.

I see a "rental" tab as a win win situation for everyone concerned.

Cat

LOL Khamon as long as I'm smiling when it gets stuck im ok with that

Cat

[thread hijack]
Siglinks to sites/SL locations that include some commerce are so common that pretty much everyone would have to change their sig. Plus, you can just turn sigs off. Sounds a bit extreme to me to ask that no one include anything like this in their sigs. But that's just me.
[/thread hijack]

Loki, I think you've made a very good catch here. Frankly it seems to me that Linden Lab has actually designed the capacity for a fraudulent activity into the new release. Allowing estate owners to mark their land as "For Sale" when it is anything but, is highly misleading and should be corrected immediately.

Once again LL has created a huge subsidy for the tiny percentage of players who are estate owners at the expense of everyone else. Does anyone else think LL should be charging a service fee for all this misleading, free, land lease advertising?

Did all y'all at LL create an ANWR sim in SUPPORT of oil drilling!?

So remove them all then. "officer I know I broke the law, but it's ok everyone is robbing the quickie mart." Sorry that excuse does not wash with me.

The fourm rules are clearly stated here:

Second Life Forum Guidlines

In particular this policy on the forums:

"Advertising - Advertising is not allowed on the forums. Posts containing Spam, real-world commercial advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are expressly forbidden. Also, please do not post any affiliate or referral links, or post anything asking for a referral. Such posts will be subject to removal. This includes using the forum private message system to spam other members."

Any site that offers to exchange US$ is a commercial rl site. Period. So yes I would like to see those commercial advertizments/solicitations removed.

Cat

It may be splitting hairs, but since the site you refer to is in the business of exchanging US$ for L$, it would appear that it can't be an entirely real-world commercial site. Now, if it was a link to a business that exchanged US$ for Euros, or anything else not directly related to SL, I might concede your point. I take the part about real-world commercial advertisements to mean stuff that is out in the real world, not related to SL... like "Buy my cool Tshirt!" or the like.

gotta love those grey area's. well any site that accepts paypal as a form of payment seems to be a commercial site to me. I will however drop this subject and leave it to LL to decide.

Cat

Actually this is a good thing for those of us who rent. Anshe (like Hank Ramos for that matter) is considerably more accessible than Linden Labs. For example I could pay tier to Anshe but I still can't pay tier to Linden Labs because of the restricted payment options. This is an example of the market realising that there are lot of European players out there, something that the Lindens are generally crap on.

Large landowners pay less tier than small ones per m2. In theory the tier for 1024m2 should be *less* than the Lindens charge.

Nobody actually owns land in SL. You are paying the Lindens a monthly rent for the exclusive use of some server resources. The only fundamental difference between renting from a large landowner and renting from the Lindens is that if the Lindens are less likely to disappear leaving you with nothing. I don't consider the Developer Initiatives to be very interesting as they are such a small amount compared to the amount the receiver has to spend. (see all the fuss in the land and economy thread).

What we need is more land use options. I think the idea of everyone owning their little 512 is pretty pointless. The flexibility you get from renting is far superior - paying in Lindens, moving whenever you want with no extra expense.. Why buy? For that 20 lindens of dwell you paid 1000 lindens to get? For the hope that you might get a £1.50 developer award?

What we need is some inbuilt way of formalising player-to-player rentals. Renting land works considerably better for most players but we have the catch of unenforcible contracts. I'd also love it if land for rent was searchable.

Currently my house is in Abacus, a residential sim where I pay rent weekly to Jamie Otis of $800L ish for the use of 2500m2. I've considered moving to one of Anshe's sims, or Gigas' Meins (they are very similar) but they seem to provide less m2 for my Linden.

It seems Anshe is saying that right-clicking and buying the land for sale in the new sims of Ansheland will give you all of these functions without waiting for a customer-service queue. So correct me if I'm wrong, I thought these functions still had to queue up and you couldn't just right-click and buy.

Well, I'm about to test all this soon in the dunes land so I'll let you know. I'm thinking that there are still many features that are going to be improved in Ansheland, by comparison to the grid. I'm personally still going to work the wild and free grid, however, because I want to try to have both more freedom for myself and more freedom for my customers, but devise ways to voluntarily get rid of some of the things that bother us all like bad builds and griefers. I think we need to have long-term solutions to those bad things, and not just private, gated communities run by powerful oligarches who are benign when they are benign, but who might turn on your, and you won't have recourse.