Question about moving out of one's country--

maybe i can adopt you LOL

mommy?

yes you have been bad GET TO MY ROOM FOR PUNISHMENT !!!!!! i mean...go to ur room while i find my whip!! i mean..*sigh*

*walks back to work...sighs...* atleast i should be home for after 12:30...ffs...

See, now a person of CONVICTION would just up and go, not get all melodromatic about it and have to post a "woe is me, oh agony" thread. Perhaps if the democratic candidate had any conviction at all, you wouldn't be posting this?

You do what so many former military people do... you justify your dismissal of other people's concerns about their country that don't agree with your point of view as being less important than yours because you served and they did not. Then you turn around and blame your lack of empathy and concern for anything that doesn't affect you personally on the fact that you served. That begs the question... why the hell did you serve if you don't care about anyone but yourself? You cancel yourself out.

I did. I was only a kid, but my parents worked real hard to come to the US. My parents voted for Kerry and are very strong and vocal about their politics.

But they would never be so naieve or disrespectful to their friends and familly that died to suggest that any US politician would drive them back. In 4 years the pendulumn will swing the other way and the amount of change is the country is not going to be that huge compared to other countries.

Folks either need to get some perspective, or start acting like adults!

Sorry dude. You don't have a clue about what I what I really think or how I came to it as evidenced by your statments. I don't justify anything to you or anyone else. I occasionally try to explain so that there might be some semblance of understanding. I don't really think there will be, but occasionally I make the effort... like now.

I don't dismiss anyone else's concerns or service or non-service - I relate other people's actions and statements to my perspective - which is all I have to operate on. I am not a theorist in life but a realist and a pragmatist. As far as world commerce, socialization and community goes, I have yet to see any semblance of anything passing as evidence that any two unrelated people who are equally starved, nearly to death, would not fight each other to the death over a crunch of bread spotted lying in the middle of a busy street intersection. I have no "hope for mankind" as a whole.. only a realization that individuals will generally do what is best for themselves first and to hellwith the rest of the world. Only if there is no reason not to do something can most people be counted on to truly support other people - in my experience. So, I don't count on others... I didn't say you shouldn't if that makes you feel better (or any other reason you can think of).

I don't blame anything on anyone.. certainly not a lack of empathy, something which I did not and do not admit is a correct premise with regards to me. I never said I was not empathic... I said I don't allow myself to waste energy on people or situations that are unrelated to me.

I don't consider myself an average former military person...my career was far from "normal" in many ways. To lump me in with them may be doing them as much a disservice as you do yourself by revealing your own apparent bias against military people.

1 - Now is not the time to leave - change is the name of the game - no matter what part of life you are tallking about - in four years those that were not realy sure that Bush was a bad choice will either not have that choice anymore or will have gotten a clue.

2 - Sure there are other places to live. But what are their governments like? Don't you think that global economy is the future and no matter where you live, what happens HERE is what will influence how that future evolves.

3 - The only thing you get when you jump from a gigantic ship is, well, lost at sea.

I don't think that's honest, Korg. If you didn't consider your military service as relevant to your point of view, either as a justification or as something that gives it weight, then you wouldn't keep mentioning it. You're a far more deliberate writer than that.

Again... you seem to be reading into thingsI did not say. Stick to the sentences I type.

Of course my experience is relevant and influences me. Everyting that happens to me influences me - consciously and unconsciously. So f'ing what?

I don't use my service as "justification".. I use it as a starting point for understanding. But it is not the only possible, or even perhaps, the best, starting point. I certainly wasn't born into the military - as they say, "young, dumb, and fullofcum". That you grant that I still have at least two cooperatively funcitonign brain cells suggests you understand that... however, you don't seem to want to grant it to me... that is, that my military service does not DEFINE me entirely. It is something that can be and is referenced by many.. not just me.

Put in other terms... I view things in life and death terms - my life, my death. Not yours or anyone else's except my immediate family. AIDS does not affect me. HIV does not affect me. The politics of Europe/Africa/ASia do not affect me. The only reason that poplitics in America affect me DIRECTLY is people won't shut up about it. Truly classical political discourse/debate, discussion as a search for "bests", desired paths, or even merely alternatives simply has not existed in America for over 150 years. The rise of party politics soon after the Constitution was signed ended such discussions with the "good of the nation" as a goal (as opposed to obtaining, maintaining power). So, war in Iraq? Do I think we should have gone? I didn't consider it til after it happened the first time. I don't think we should have.. however, once the decision was made and troops were sent.. I was all for it. Same deal second time. Afghanistan? Same deal...but I would prefer we bomb them back to the stone agae, get it over ad leave... oh, wait. They are still in the Stone Age... Okay. Time to leave/come home now.

Do I really care about what is happeing in Iraq right now? No. Do I care that other people are opposed/support our actions in Iraq - at any time - from the intial deployment of troops to now? No. Why? Simple. I won't/can't be recalled to active duty. Nothing that occurs in Iraq will DIRECTLY affect me. Nothing in Iraq will or can threaten me. It's simply not worth my time to even think about.

Did I vote? Yes. Why? I have my reasons. Did I vote for a candidate who had a reasonable chance to win the election? Yes - and saying so eliminated Nader simply by asking th equestion. Did I feel that the choice presented me was one that I considered to be two candidates with clearly defined positions to choose from? No. One candidate defined a position.. the other simply argued/speechified "I can do better". Not even close as far as my real choice was. Should any of this matter to you, to how you feel about your vote/my stance? I am simply not going to waste braincells or power on that question. IT JSUT DOESN'T MATTER.

Does any of the above sound like it is spawned from my military service? If it does, you are reading into what I said.. and you have no clue how I came to the above perspective. It really is that simple.

If it does't matter to me, why spend this much time penning a response? Two reasons. I am at work and bored. --and- it amuses me.

I think you've gone way over the line on this one, Chip. Lumping veterans together in such a way is far beneath what I normally think of both your intellect and your objectivity.

But while we're on the subject, what about all of the political extremists (*cough* Neehai *cough*) that dismiss others as stupid simply because they don't agree with their POV?

Did you also know that the suicide rate in Denmark is amazingly high.

Its not just the rich that pay the taxes that afford you financial aid and the middle class carries the brunt of all tax burden. Why exactly do you think it fair to take from others for you? Just because someone has money doesn't mean they didn't work damn hard to get it.
I also understand you are looking at a big bill to pay off but you chose that and you could also work to pay the extra money. Nothing in life is free.

Yes, America isn't all its cracked up to be but running away doesn't change anything. You can name any other government in the world and I can name a list of problems they have as well.

You have goo skills...if you marry me you can be a citizen....but I'm a pain in the ass

So tell me what exactly did you fight for during your military service? What was your reason for wanting to fight for America? I am very confused with your ability to on one hand laud your own service and on the other hand discourage those freedoms and liberties the military was created to protect. Maybe you can give some insight into your logic. Fight for freedom and at the same time spit upon the freedoms of your countrymen. Make me understand.

And to say that you do not care about your brothers in arms is sickening. My father went to Vietnam and he cries everyday for the men and women in Iraq. If it doesn't affect you then something else is wrong in your head or heart. You tell the mother of an 18 year old boy or girl that it doesn't matter. That we are not effected. I can't post my true fury on this because I would likely be banned from sl...so read what you want into it, can't be worse than what I am thinking.

At least other countries are moving forward...everyone makes mistakes but backpeddling towards religious imperialism is not proggression.

I wasn't lumping veterans together, Grim. I'm simply saying that in my experience a lot of veterans tend to bring up their service in discussions as a way of implying that their opinions should carry more weight. I'll take Korg at his word on this but I can't say I'm entirely convinced. A person's military service is often a superfluous detail to the conversation at hand when it gets brought up, as I thought Korg's mentioning it was. He did a good job of explaining that he brought it up in context to his apathy about issues that don't directly affect him which wasn't entirely clear before. It doesn't change my contention that a great many veterans do flaunt their service as something that should give their opinions more weight than those who haven't served.

As for Neehai, I don't find him to be a political extremist at all. He's extremely well versed in the issues and has very informed opinions. If he is dismissive it's usually because the opinion he's arguing against is not well informed. For instance, you might want to do a bit of reading on the neo-cons. You mentioned in another thread that since you hate the religious right you can't be a neo-con. That would be an example of being uninformed. The neo-cons are not religious fundamentalists. Their agenda, while being favorable to the religious right, has nothing to do with religion. They're all about projecting American hegemony and dominating the world through overwhelming military superiority. With the excpetion of a common interest in remaking the middle east and stamping out radical Islam, they're actually somewhat strange bedfellows.

Of course I grant that you have at least two functioning brain cells. I happen to think you're quite intelligent and articulate. I disagree with you most of the time but that has nothing to do with me thinking you're not a smart guy.

wasn't me