A liberal Columnist Speaks Out

This post got lost/killed in a recently locked thread. I think it's still relevant on its own.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/brow...ws-brown01.html
What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?
February 1, 2005
BY MARK BROWN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Maybe you're like me and have opposed the Iraq war since before the shooting started -- not to the point of joining any peace protests, but at least letting people know where you stood.

You didn't change your mind when our troops swept quickly into Baghdad or when you saw the rabble that celebrated the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue, figuring that little had been accomplished and that the tough job still lay ahead.

Despite your misgivings, you didn't demand the troops be brought home immediately afterward, believing the United States must at least try to finish what it started to avoid even greater bloodshed. And while you cheered Saddam's capture, you couldn't help but thinking I-told-you-so in the months that followed as the violence continued to spread and the death toll mounted.

By now, you might have even voted against George Bush -- a second time -- to register your disapproval.

But after watching Sunday's election in Iraq and seeing the first clear sign that freedom really may mean something to the Iraqi people, you have to be asking yourself: What if it turns out Bush was right, and we were wrong?

It's hard to swallow, isn't it?

Americans cross own barrier
If you fit the previously stated profile, I know you're fighting the idea, because I am, too. And if you were with the president from the start, I've already got your blood boiling.

For those who've been in the same boat with me, we don't need to concede the point just yet. There's a long way to go. But I think we have to face the possibility.

I won't say that it had never occurred to me previously, but it's never gone through my mind as strongly as when I watched the television coverage from Iraq that showed long lines of people risking their lives by turning out to vote, honest looks of joy on so many of their faces.

Some CNN guest expert was opining Monday that the Iraqi people crossed a psychological barrier by voting and getting a taste of free choice (setting aside the argument that they only did so under orders from their religious leaders).

I think it's possible that some of the American people will have crossed a psychological barrier as well.

Deciding democracy's worth
On the other side of that barrier is a concept some of us have had a hard time swallowing:

Maybe the United States really can establish a peaceable democratic government in Iraq, and if so, that would be worth something.

Would it be worth all the money we've spent? Certainly.

Would it be worth all the lives that have been lost? That's the more difficult question, and while I reserve judgment on that score until such a day arrives, it seems probable that history would answer yes to that as well.

I don't want to get carried away in the moment.

Going to war still sent so many terrible messages to the world.

Most of the obstacles to success in Iraq are all still there, the ones that have always led me to believe that we would eventually be forced to leave the country with our tail tucked between our legs. (I've maintained from the start that if you were impressed by the demonstrations in the streets of Baghdad when we arrived, wait until you see how they celebrate our departure, no matter the circumstances.)

In and of itself, the voting did nothing to end the violence. The forces trying to regain the power they have lost -- and the outside elements supporting them -- will be no less determined to disrupt our efforts and to drive us out.

Somebody still has to find a way to bring the Sunnis into the political process before the next round of elections at year's end. The Iraqi government still must develop the capacity to protect its people.

And there seems every possibility that this could yet end in civil war the day we leave or with Iraq becoming an Islamic state every bit as hostile to our national interests as was Saddam.

Penance could be required
But on Sunday, we caught a glimpse of the flip side. We could finally see signs that a majority of the Iraqi people perceive something to be gained from this brave new world we are forcing on them.

Instead of making the elections a further expression of "Yankee Go Home," their participation gave us hope that all those soldiers haven't died in vain.

Obviously, I'm still curious to see if Bush is willing to allow the Iraqis to install a government that is free to kick us out or to oppose our other foreign policy efforts in the region.

So is the rest of the world.

For now, though, I think we have to cut the president some slack about a timetable for his exit strategy.

If it turns out Bush was right all along, this is going to require some serious penance.

Maybe I'd have to vote Republican in 2008.

We'll never know if he was right or wrong, since they stopped looking for the (Giant Space) Weapons of Mass Destruction (of Doom). The whole reason we went to war was because of those weapons, not to give voting booths to Iraqis. Since we didn't find weapons, people are starting to pretend that this was always about giving freedom to Iraqis.

I honestly believe that there is so much polarization and hate by many liberals that they would rather see this country loose the war and Iraq to spin out of control than credit President Bush for anything. They would rather side with criminals and terrorists than the President of the United States.

Oh, yeah, and voices like Sean Hannity, Anne Coultier, and Rush Limbaugh are SO unifying. Get real, Billy.

OK, I'll play Hiro. Are you saying that because of what some radio and TV personalities say that you would rather side with the terrorists? No matter how much I disliked Clinton, I would never turn my back on him or this country.

Bush =! America
Liberals =! Terrorists
Honest Dissent =! Terrorism

No, I'm saying that both the left and right wing are devisive - America is split and it's pointless and crude to blame it on one side. It's all of our problem, and it's time for people to grow up and realize that it's all of our fault that we're so split, not just "liberals" or "right wingers".

I think it's a good article, more or less. I certainly fit the profile in the first paragraph. I've always said since the start of the war that if it had been sold on its actual merits, with honesty about our real goals and justifications, and about our role in creating the Iraq we just toppled, then I might have supported it. No one, no matter how against the war they are, wants to see it fail and the outcome be worse for the Iraqi people just for the sake of being able to say I told you so. The fact remains that we were not presented with an honest justification for war. I personally think that Afghanistan and Iraq may both have been more about Iran and gaining a military advantage in the middle east for future comflicts than it was about terrorism or WMD. We now have troops on either side of Iran and an excuse to keep them there for years.

Really interesting thinking, there.

The key argument seems to be the following... at least to me.
Rewriting the last line of the article:
Maybe I'll have to vote Republican in 2008 as a mea culpa to the concept of non-partisanship in American politics.

My opinion has been this. I wasn't agains the war because I thought it wouldn't do any good -- it was because there are millions of problems in the world and we can't solve them all -- especially since the reasons lacked cohesion. So even if Iraq becomes a great place to live and everything is happy -- doesn't mean Bush was right. It would just mean he was less wrong.

Iraq can turn out a democracy and Bush can still be wrong.
Bush said they had WMDs.
Bush said that the war would be quick.
Bush said we would be welcomed as liberators.
Bush said Saddam was behind terrorists.
Bush used all these reasons to go to war. Bush was wrong about each one.

It doesn't mean we ultimately shouldn't have gone to war, just that we should have done it the right way. What it does mean is that our talented, brave men and women in the military have done a terrific job.

But what I find most ridiculous about the article is the whole, "I may have to vote Republican in 2008" comment. I would hope that people don't pick their vote 4 years in advance on party lines alone.

Sorry. Democracy doesn't come at the end of a gun barrel. Good results or no --the end NEVER justifies the means. If there is any success in freedom and Democracy coming to Iraq --it will be the Iraqis to congratulate --not Bush.

If you cut the administration slack, they'll just go invade another country under false pretenses again. Then where will we be?

Support the troops. Support the citizens of Iraq. Hold the US Administration accountable for their justifactions and actions. They are all separate things.

Conservatives always like to say that liberals don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. Well, maybe conservatives should do a little introspection of themselves.

I wonder how much the Bush administration paid Mark Brown to write this?

/sarcasm

I = <3 U

Very insightful there Chip and you don't know how close to the truth you are. *put's tinfoil hat back on*

I think it's a crock of shit article myself. It skims over any justifications for being against the war. It assumes the ends justify the means. It's no doubt paid for by some administration thug.

Guess what..Iraq is NOT OUR COUNTRY. Iraq DIDN'T ATTACK US. How the hell would you feel if suddenly some other country developed a super-duper weapon and invaded your country, in order to put in a government/believe system that they felt was more just and humane? Bet you wouldn't like it would you. It's all about the money people! It's not about freedom, it's not about threats. Why do you think we dropped chasing the real mastermind of 9/11 so fast and shifted the focus to Iraq as quickly as allowable?? Because chasing Osama didn't earn companies like Haliburton and U.S. and British Oil companies enough money!

Why do you think Bush and his stooges gave speech after speech saying Saddam and Iraq were involved with 9/11, and then later lied and denied saying it (only to be shown on video saying it numerous times)?? Becase they knew that american citizens are like sheep and if you say something often enough, they will believe it, no matter how obvious the lie. And if you get caught in the lie, either deny it till our short attention span moves on, or else blame someone else. It's all so easy to do and to understand. Wake the fuck up!

Whether it's good that the Iraqi's have elections now or not, it doesn't change the fact that our President lied, cheated and stole to get this war going, and that the entire war wasn't about freedome=, or WMD, but about making money for corporate entities. Are you people fucking blind???

Billy says they are terrorists. Well I bet 90% of those people that died in Iraqi were in no way terorists. You are still stuck on the lie of Iraq being part of 9/11??

And as far as liberals being that hate mongers and seperatists, that is so fucking idiotic. Read what the right-wing republican mouthpieces say as opposed to the liberal mouthpieces. The right-wing reps have time and again acted to thier own beneifit, no matter the cost, while flipping the bird to anyone of more moderate or liberal views. It's almost unbelievable to me that anyone on this planet could be blind to the corruption of our government, their self-serving lies, and the absolute greed and selfishness of the neo-con movement.

Now..have a nice day

I'm with ya David. I hope Iraq turns out for the best, but I will always consider the Bush administration to be a crooked criminal enterprise and I hope they get what's coming to them.

Oh, I totally agree with that. The difference I am pointing out is that many liberals have sided with the terrorists and are furthering their agenda Hiro. Could the terrorists have ever found better spokesmen?

What they are doing is all in the name of hating and destroying President Bush. I am of the opinion that if given the choice, many would rather we loose the war in a devastating fashion and have President Bush impeached instead of us winning the war and President Bush being remembered in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever.

Why not put aside all of the crap about who, what, when, where and why the war was started? Why not get behind our troops and President and show some unity to the terrorists? Why not make it harder, not easier for the terrorists to win? Why not? I will tell you why, it is simply in the name of hating President Bush and the willingness to do ANYTHING, even siding with the terrorists, to bring him down. And that is disgusting.

Get over it! We are there now, none of the arguments for starting the war apply.

I can certainly respect speaking out against the war before it started but that decision has been made and we are in it, like it or not. I have no respect for the continual bashing of President Bush and the lack of morale support for our troops.

Even your boy, John Kerry, said he would stay and finish the job. Get over the fact that we are there and do something positive. Quit siding for the terrorists and furthering their agendas. Had you done this during WWII, you would have been run out of town.

Ummm... yes it does. Ever heard of the American Revolution (edited)?

You don't REALLY believe that do you Hank? Sure... support the troops... HOW? By bringing down their leader? pfft

Not gonna happen anyway, you lost in November and still can't believe it can you? The MAJORITY of this country supports President Bush, deal with it.

The majority of electronic voting machines support Bush. The exit polls support Kerry.

Ahem… neither was Hitler’s Germany.


And how would you like it to watch your brothers murdered like dogs and your women raped by Saddam and his thugs? How would you feel if 10,000 of your neighbors were GASSED, men, women, children, animals, everything. How would you feel about us taking Saddam down then?

The Iraqi people have spoken with their votes last Sunday. Nuff said!


I thought you were smarter than that David. 90%!!! That is ridiculous.


Where is the proof? Exactly what have the dems done to fight terrorism? How have they made our country safer for our children? What have they done besides ANYTHING to slander President Bush? You can’t see the forest because all of those trees are in your way David.


Oh, you can count on that my friend. likewise,