UPDATE: Mass. makes peliminary constitution amendment changing it to ban gay marriage

As it turn out, accorning to this news link Massachussets have now given preliminary approval to ban gay marriages in the only state it has been declared legal. The California has also put a hard stop to marriages in San Francisco. Thousands of couple have now been turned away.

How unequivically sad I find this. It seems America is ruled, overwhelmingly, by bigots who with our rights be exclusive. I may not be gay, but I am a human being, and I know the diffence between right and wrong..

and dehumanizing gay people, offering them a marriage substitute so they'll shut up is wrong, no matter what your beliefs are. This has been made all about religion, forget that rights- constitutional rights are involved.

If America starts a trend of finding sects of people, be they minorities or what, to attack and dehumanize, to belittle and repress, to deny what every man woman and child deserves, I will leave this country. Sounds extreme, but this is only the beginning... whose rights are going to be violated next?

Yours?

I wish religious groups would stop infesting congress and making decisions on my behalf. I am NOT a bigot. I am a christion, but i am NOT hate or exclusive.

"No Hatred. Just loving biblical truth,"

Quoted from the Yahoo News article from the link in the post above.

This article made my stomach turn. Its horrid how opponents of gay marrage are contorting, twisting, and deforming what their religion states to justify what IS hate towards other human beings.

If the law continues this tirade of stripping rights from minoritys, I agree with what Phaylen will do, leave the country.

==Chris

I've planned a move to British Columbia in this past year; soon as I finish my college education I'm outtie. They have plenty of much more realistic and progressive laws there, and it's a beautiful place to live in.

Yeah, the whole "moving out of America" thing is an underused and underappreciated option.

A war is made of many battles. This battle may be lost but the war is far from over.

As Rev Cecil Williams of Glide Memorial said lawmakers will "have a tough time putting the genie back in the bottle" on this issue.

Leaving is what they would want you to do. What needs to be done is a bit of digging in of heels and a lot of calling your representatives.

lol Whenever people say they'll leave the country I always laugh.

Anyway consitutional amendments in this case are wrong, and from what I gather their reasoning for doing it is wrong wrong wrong... (although I have yet to read much about the justification they're using here).

...dons hardhat...

Well when it comes to the state of my safety and the bare essentials of humanity, as far as rights being rights, not priviliges, I will leave in a heartbeat the day this goverment comes into my home, into my life, as a law abiding citizen, and takes something that it is my right to have, or my right to practice.

This is where America is going. We are the laughing stock of the civilized world thanks to Bush. America is no place i want to retire, People like John Kerry will get into office and take away Medicare to help pay the deficit. He is no better than Bush, nothing will change with this republican in democrats clothing in office. He's in agreement with Bush overjust about everything but has his own agenda and for the sake of the contest has to attack him. Bush is simply the anti-christ.

So it's now a matter of picking the lesser of the two evils, but we can't expect change, we can't expect progress or betterment, an improvement, nothing. Both are Bigots, both clain to be traditional christians and *love* god, both have rallied to remove him from our state houses and Congress yet will alter ammendments in God'sname to damn other people, or exile them.

The constitution is to protect us against violation. Us as fee Americans have the constitution as our security blanket and this is the first step in having it ripped away and being a controlled society.

Yes, I will leave. Yes I have been looking into it for months. You can laugh all you want... but you won't be laughing the day a "New ammedment of constitution" effect YOU or your loved ones.

Its just wrong to let someone get married and than just say o well give it back you cant be anymore.

Its even wrong for them to say that two people who love one another cant even get married just becouse thay are same sex.

If anyone is in the wrong its the people who say that thay cant, people that are not of the same sex can get married and then get a divorced like it never materd at all and that isnt ruening the sanctity of marriage?

Think about it all of you who are married, just what if someon came into your life and told you you cant be anymore and took it away how would it bee you know its juat all wrong i think.

Would be sorry to see you go Phaylen, and would be a loss to our country. We need voices like yours.

While I agree whole heartedly with you Phaylen, I have to just point out that America is pretty infamous for trying to squash the rights of certain groups supposedly according to the "will of the majority" which is more often than not, a cop out. But still, we discriminate not only against gays but against a whole host of folks. Native Americans are *still* getting the short end of the stick two or three hundred years later -- if you read what we did to NA kids int he 1970's in boarding schools you'd think we were some kind of facist nation (forcing them to cut their hair, pusnishing them for speaking their own language, assuming all NA's are alcoholics . . .lenoard peltier . . .oh I could go on and on).

Sadly, as much as we want to say we are a nation of "liberty and justice for all" we just aren't. This shows we aren't even close to living up to that ideal. Our notions of what "liberty and justice" for all changes slowly over time -- at first it was only "liberty and justice" for white men, then white men and women, then, supposedly all races (but we can see that isn't entirely true either, the number of prison inmates and the race percentages of those inmates prove that), and now, we're taking a nice tidy step back into bigotry. Which seems to be more our natural state than liberty.

*sigh* ok I'm thoroughly depressed now.

Zana

On a related note, I've been getting emails from the American Family ASSociation, because I voted in an online poll of theirs awhile back in support of gay marriage (which was not their intention). I just love the way they word things.

"Massachussetts has passed a vote in state supreme court 4-3 to FORCE the state to allow gay marriage. Because of the fair rights clause in the constitution, pretty soon gay marriage will be FORCED upon every single citizen."

I'm not too sure how they think the world works, but making something legal doesn't mean that you suddenly have to participate in it. Maybe I should cancel my wedding to plan for this new gay marriage I'm going to be forced into, according to them.

This issue is silly. I don't know how anyone can, in good conscious, say that gay marriage should be banned, but everyone else in the entire country can get married no matter what. And further, to actually try to word discrimination into a constitutional amendment. The constitution is NOT where you define something like marriage...

Loved John Stewart's comment on this:

"So, let me see if I understand this correctly .. they're going to force me to marry a gay man? Cuz, my wife wouldn't be too happy about that. And if they're not going to force me to marry someone of the same sex ... then why should I give a shit?"

I also think it could be argued that heterosexuals have done far more to ruin "the sanctity of marriage" than gay people.

I too have contemplated leaving the country...its only 60miles away max, right? Could still see my family? I have tossed this idea around since the day Dubya got elected.

My straight brother got married last fall - we got engaged at the same time...its so sad that not only was he ALLOWED to get married, he was ALLOWED to be celebrated, rewarded, and congratulated - at all levels -- family, friend, state, federal. Of course none of this is his fault - he is entitled to all this...but god dammit so am I.

But leaving the country would be letting Dubya and his right wing buddies win in a sense wouldn't it? If all the gay people leave in favor of greener pastures aren't the right wing assholes ultimately getting what they wanted? For us to shut up and be suburban and closeted tax paying drones? Better yet, if all us homo malcontents would just dissapear! I say screw that - I'll be fighting till I can't bitch anymore!

We haven't been fighting that long compared to some other civil rights fights that went on.... As much as it feels hopeless, the pioneers of other similar fights didn't give up...and neither will I. We are A LOT further than we were 10 years ago even.... lets NOT quit now.

By the way its support from straight people like the people on this forum and others similar that personally really make me feel good. Its easy to turn your back on a fight that "doesn't involve you" (altho ultimately it does)...thank you.

When I saw this in the forum list I read "Mass" as "Mars". I thought it was news from the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. It just goes to show you how much I need the weekend, thinking, "Mars has a constitution now? And they're banning gay marriage?"

This will not make it into the constitution. I think the more people learn about this, the more they feel this is not right.

I just think that Americans, by and large, are good hearted folk who don't want to trample on others lives.

I, too, have thought of leaving this country, but I will not be run out by the old dogs. Time does not serve the narrow mind or conservative heart. Equality will prevail, and I will stay to fight for my rights as a citizen. No one will run me out of our country.

btw, christopher nomad: you make me sick.

When you look at all the good things that have happened in America, all the good amendments, all the amendments that have made this country a better place, you see that they were all done with something good in mind. Prohibition, well, that died out pretty fast. It only worked for so long because people were getting it illegially anyway.


Now, you see this. A change to our CONSTITUTION discriminating a certain group of people from loving EACH OTHER.

"Good Biblical truth?" Damn, what about dinosaurs? Not possible by the bible.

I love to go up to people who don't like gay marraige because it's "against the word of God" and say, "Do you believe in dinosaurs?" They say yes, of course. And I tell them that the two contridict each other. They tell me I'm going to hell. I'd tell them the same thing, but I don't believe in hell, either.

Love that last paragraph Darwin (but you realize they have new arguments they made just for dinosaurs, I think they decided that 'day' meant 'an amount of time' in the bible so as to alow for the different stages of evolution which could when grouped specificly, be boiled into 7 'days')

Close minded, selfish, blindly 'faithful' people piss me off.

If it doesn't hurt you, or limit you why must you stick your nose in?

People don't like an 'idea' and it's BAD. It's EVIL. It's a threat to GOD. I don't see him sticking his nose down here and saying that (then again if he did and some one heard him we probably druged them up and locked them away).

YOU don't like it doesn't mean god or budda or any other diety gives a flying F@#$. Men need to quit puting words in their gods mouths.

I'm not gay, but I sure as hell know when people are taking peoples rights away.

Wasn't this country founded by a group of people who didn't like that the last country said they couldn't practice their version of their religion.

Does NO one draw a paralel here?!

One more thing adding to the silliness of the comment, "soon they'll be forcing us to marry gay." Well besides the fact that now they're forcing us to all marry straight, keep in mind that it's also legal to give a random stranger 500 dollars. Do we need to give a random stranger 500 dollars?

Heheh well according to who they're citing as 'good biblical truth' Slavery is also A.O.K. -- but they fail to bring that up when they're throwing quotes around:

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV) "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Now as a 'temporary resident' I guess I'll put myself on the auction block.. 5 lindens anyone?

The quotes they pull to support the 'cause' are pretty weak.. and usually only half quoted and twisted to suit the purpose.

If half these groups were even a fraction as righteous as they claim to be, then the likes of Phelps and his croonies would pay heed to some of the other things they profess to follow:

(Acts 10:2 : "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

Disclaimer : It took me a long time to discover I was an athiest -- but those many good years of catholic upbringing taught me never to bring a knife to a gunfight

Siggy.

Hehe, take a look at this (theists: be warned, - this site contains humour.) The Deviants Bible

I personally, have been an atheist, or at least agnostic to a degree all my life. I follow Zen Buddhist* teachings, however I do not personally believe the buddha reached nirvana, and was granted spiritual powers.

However, I do not understand how many so-called 'Christians' can blatently ignore the teachings of their own sacred text, and listen to their leaders while maintaining a stance which is in contradiction to the Bible. This issue highlights that specifically, - the bible clearly states that no-one is worthy to judge another, other than god himself.

Of course this brings up another issue altogether - is the church worthy to lead? recent 'issues' are the very tip of an iceberg as far as corruption and self indulgence go with the church - for more info, google on 'catholic indulgences' (approx ~1400AD), on the first martin luther & the reformation of the church (~1200AD), or the holdings of the churches (and how they aquired them). Also check out why the Anglican church was formed - no divine piety was involved there, and certainly look at the discimination between various sects, only up until recently. (~1970)

I'm not going to claim the bible is a fraud - personal beliefs are just that, and I personally cannot tell either way, but I have made my own decision. However - when those personal beliefs are conglomerated to disciminate against others, then we as a global society have a problem. This is no different to religion condemning interracial marriages as destroying the 'sanctity' of the act.

* - Zen Buddhism is not the same as [Indian] buddhism, - the word zen specifically translates to mean 'meditate / meditiation', this form of Buddhism is particularly well known for Koan's or spiritual riddles, often designed to invoke enlightenment. more information on zen buddhism.

Bleh... throwing around extreme religious viewpoints and using it for political purposes is sickening. I'm annoyed that thinking "right wing" individuals are even associated with those type of people. Then again, the left has celebrities, socialists, and Michael Moore, so I guess both sides of the fence have their dog crap they need to get raked up.

But I still think "leaving the country" is funny.

No worries Garoad, during the Civil War, all of those people were democrats. I think they change parties every so often. Maybe they'll be Green party members soon, so none of us will need to worry anymore. Then they'll all just be actual conservatives.

Garoad,

<<Then again, the left has celebrities, socialists, and Michael Moore, so I guess both sides of the fence have their dog crap they need to get raked up.>>

I have deleted my earlier comment, which was written in a state of anger. This is supposed to be an international site, and many of the countries which are represented here have socialist governments or large socialist parties.

Comments like yours feed anti-Americanism, and we can do with less of that in the world at the moment.

America is imperfect. Everything is. When we say things like this, we stop pretending there's nothing to be "anti-American" about and we start to improve the state of affairs.