Let me make sure I got this right -- calucating land allotment

Ok so . . .

If my calcuations are right -- I am grandfathered 1024m for being a non-lifer resident, which means I get 1024 for free. I own currently 1456m which is over the limit by 432m which is slightly *below* the 5 dollar plan. So, basically, that means my payment is going *down* to five dollars a month, right?

Which means if I intend to keep paying what I'm paying now, I can actually own 1024 plus the 2047 or so alloted to someone paying around 15 a month, correct? So that means my land allotment, at 15 a month, should be 3071m or so? That means for 15 a month I'm getting approximately 1/22 of a sim? Instead of the approximately 1/42nd of a sim I have now?

Or is it that I get grandfathered 1024 but I have to pay 15 a month to own 2047 even though I'm grandfathered the 1024 -- so bascially I'm paying 15 a month for just over 400m of land?

I'm pretty sure the first one is right, but I want someone with a better math mind than me to help out here .

Zana

Nope not how it works, as clarified by Philip and other lindens in the Unofficial FAQ thread.

Here is the real deal. Any existing member will get 1024sqm of land for their $10 monthly subscription instead of the 'normal' post 1.2 512sqm.

So what it means is you will be able to own as much land as you do (and a little more) and continue to pay $15 a month.

Ok so this is not as good a deal as I thought . So that means, without paying with L or RL Money, I can't ever expand. And I get approximately one extra 4 by 4 plot. Hrmpf.

Thanks Ama.

Zana

For $3 extra dollars a month you can get another 512sqm though ($18 /mo).

Also discounts for multi month payments are not going away - if you pay in 3 month or larger increments your $10/mo 'Premium Membership' plan will be reduced (ie $24 for 3 months etc). Land caps don't get discounts based on months paid at a time, but rather on the amount of land purhcased (buy more land, it gets cheaper per sq meter).

edit: Thanks Khamon, I was vague.

the land caps are discounted though. the more you buy, the less per sqaure meter it costs.

This was in my e-mail today:

"As a Quarterly Member under Second Life's new subscription plan, you have been allocated 1/64 of a simulator (1024 square meters) for free -an $8 monthly value. This land is given to you in in thanks for your ongoing support and is yours to do with as you please. In addition, you will continue to receive a weekly L$ stipend allocation as you currently do with version 1.1 We will announce the exact amount of these stipends in the forums and by email.

As of yesterday, December 10, 2003, you are holding 1,456 square metersof land, which is 432 square meters over the allocation. Under the new subscription plan http://secondlife.com/support/faq-v1_2.php this
additional land holding will cost you either $5.00 per month , or alternatively you will be able to pay the fee in L$. We will announce the exact L$ rates to pay for land within the next 2 days."

Notice the portions I put in bold. This e-mail seems to indicate that I was right the first time -- I will in fact only be paying $5.00 per month because I am an existing Quarterly Member. No where in this e-mail does it state that I will also have to pay that extra 8.00 a month for the 1024. It says, "for free, an 8 a month value."

Now, if I fact I have to pay the 8 a month anyway to maintain that plot of land, then the wording should be something like this: "As a quarterly member, your base payment for 1024m of land is 8.00 per month. If you choose to maintain the amount of land you currently own, your payment will be an additional 5.00 per month, for a total of 13.00 per month, a savings of over 1.99 a month! (if you really want to push the money saving aspect)."

Because as it reads right now, the "free" portion sounds like that's exactly what it is: Free. A free 8.00 a month value would mean that, you know, free! As in I don't gotta pay and you give me 1024m of land- yippee! However, if in fact I have to pay for the 8.00 a month to maintain the 1024 then, well, I don't have anything for free. You see?

No offense to the Linden Marketing Department, but if the latter portion is still the correct way to estimate my *real* payment amount, then you guys seriously need to do some exercises on writing clearly and precisely and avoid letting hype blind you to writing good, specific prose. And to show my complete greed -- if the former is in fact true, then wow! You rock . And you still might want to include another paragraph that bullets exactly what is happening in a language a little less vague. I know it's gotta be hard to explain this to 2,000 people, but I'd happily read an extra paragraph in the e-mail to get some clarity -- as I'm sure other folks would too.

Now, group hug?
Zana

I was under the impression that you could hold 1024m of land and never have to pay a monthly fee again. A gift from the Lindens to those of us that have been paying and shaping the game up to the 1.2 release.

Anyone that begins playing after 1.2 will have to pay a one time $10 sign up fee and be a lifetime member with no rights to land. They will have to pay a monthly fee if they decide to buy land. Just like you will have to pay a monthly fee if you want above and beyond the 1024m.

Unfortunately, you are not correct.

You can hold 1024m of land, you will NOT have to pay a land allocation fee.

You will have to have a premium access plan (which will cost you $9.99 a month)

Here is the relevant quote, last post on page one of my unofficial FAQ:
Unofficial FAQ first page
Philip Linden:
If you are currently a paying monthly, quarterly, or annual SL subscriber, you will only receive a land allocation of 1024 meters if you continue to pay for a monthly subscription. That is, if you decide to stop paying altogether, the land allocation goes away at the end of your payment period.

Additionally, 'Reinstated' users who have previously cancelled SL and now will bet a basic access account will NOT receive a land alllocation.
Unfortunately, I do believe that this was changed last night----

It was probably changed as a result of me+others yelling at all the people who don't like 1.2 "You get land for free! You get land for free!"

They also changed the "getting to know 1.2" support page to include TWO cost matrixes, rather than the original ONE land only cost matrix.

It was also refered to in several threads by several lindens, where they had said as long as you purchase a land membership, you will end up receiving the greater stipend, no matter which land membership it was.

Let me make it clear, however: I still believe 1.2 is cool No taxes, and the flexible pricing scheme is totally legitmate. If you are willing to pay $15 a month, you get 2048 sq.m. of land guaranteed, as long as you are a current member.
New members get 1568 sq.m. under the same payment plan.

I do think, however, that the land allocation offered could be tweaked, and possibly the subscription levels, too.

How about, for example, a discount if you purchase both a premium subscripton and a land allocation? Or perhaps an additional land bonus?

Or allow current residents to keep a 'gift' 1024 sq.m. as long as they purchase either a premium subscription OR a land subscription (THIS IS THE BIG ONE THAT WILL GET ALL THE NAYSAYERS OFF YOUR BACK PHILIP )
Current residents willing to pay $15/month for land would then get a total of 3096 sq.m., and a low stipend.

I imagine that the VAST majority of individuals would think this is fair---please consider this option

Anyways, just my 2 prims,

Bit

Looks like the email Zana (and most others probably) is wrong. The support 1.2 FAQ page has been updated, its not the same as it was when first published. Give it a look: http://secondlife.com/support/faq-v1_2.php

Is it at all possible that the FAQ was updated for new users contemplating the game? The numbers look an awful lot like what they were saying was going to happen for those that are not grandfathered in such as we all are.

Getting to know 1.2 has been updated. It has better explanations and pay tables.

An important parqagraph is:

Defining "Lifetime".
Everyone benefits from the new plan! Lifetime members receive 1/16 of a region (4,096m2) and Premium membership at no cost . a $25 monthly value - in recognition of their lifetime status. All other current Second Life residents who move to the $9.95 Preminum membership plan will get an allotment of 1/64 of a region (1024m2) - twice the standard land grant for Premium members. You can use these land allotments to hold on to the parcels where you.re already living; every Resident will receive an email detailing their particular circumstance and how v1.2 will affect their holdings. Most Second Life Residents currently hold land within bounds of their coming allotments and won.t see an increase in fees.

It was updated again, to include this:
All other current Second Life residents who move to the $9.95 Preminum membership plan will get an allotment of 1/64 of a region (1024m2) - twice the standard land grant for Premium members.
Unfortunately, they forgot to change this, so its even MORE confusing:
Current Residents will receive a no-cost land allotment, and those who opt for the $9.95 monthly membership will have an additional dollop of land on top of that.

Errr...I'm sure the way it is being explained in the first one is what they intend, now-----

Somone didn't realize that if they offered free land, people might decide not to use it as an 'extra' perk, but just not PAY anything anymore

Obviously, LL could not survive with a bunch of free users

So, you are basically trying to say that my email that states I now need to pay $25 dollars a month to maintain my current allotment, really means I should be paying $10 plus $25 for a total of $35 a month?

That is just not figuring out right in my head. Would be nice to have a Linden confirm if they have changed the offer since my email from last night.

Which by the way states:

First, let me apologize for the confusion. And now, let me try to explain what we meant.

Current users will be 'grandfathered' a land allocation of either 4096 square meters (Lifetime) or 1024 square meters (Premium access). This means you can hold land up to your allocation without paying monthly land use fees. The fees for 4096 m^2 would be $25 per month. The fees for 1024 m^2 would be $8 per month. That's where the savings number came in.

You will still have to pay to acquire your land (currently in $L). And you will still have to pay for your account. Lifetime members pay once and premium access members pay according to the plan they choose (Monthly, Quarterly, Annual).

If you change your plan to Basic access, (the one time $9.95 plan) you will not be eligible for the land allocation.

I really hope that helps, and I'm sorry this has been so confusing.

Ok. but does this mean you recieve the 1024 sq meters in addtion to the 512 that you get with a premium membership?

If not then this means current subscribers are being given 512 sq meters (a 3 dollar savings)

Point taken. You're getting twice the land allocation (1024 m^2) that someone will get if they buy a Premium membership after v1.2 releases (512 m^2).

So Robin, based on what you are saying, and based on my email posted above, if I want to just maintain the current amount of land that I have (as stated in my email above), then my monthly RL payment to Linden Labs will be $25 a month and nothing more (as stated in my email above). Is this correct?

And thank you for trying to help with this!

Wow as supportive as I am of these changes, it is becoming more apparent how expensive it will be for some. I could understand the $25 per month for the amount of land Pendari owns, which is equivalent to 1/16th of a sim. However, I cannot understand also charging a monthly fee on top of that - that is crazy - you need to consolidate these plans, they border on the absurd in terms of complexity.

What I got out of my E-mail, for being already subscribed. I'll get 1024 of land for $9.95 a month, but since I have 2048 of land i'll be paying $8 above that for a total of $17.95 a month. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Pendari -
You will pay $9.95 for your monthly Premium membership (down from $14.95 per month now), plus $25 per month for land use, since you own more land than your allocation.

Edav -
Yes, you'll pay $17.95 per month.

Now, at the risk of adding yet more confusion, remember that, as Philip announced in the Town Hall last night, you'll also be able to pay your land use fees with $L. We'll announce the $L amounts that tie to each land tier within the next day or so via email to everyone.

i haven't gotten an email yet. i haven't gotten an email yet about anything. my profile is correct and has been the whole time. i've gotten event emails so i know y'all have my address.

yes i'm hijcaking the thread and i don't care. i keep saying that i'm not getting any emails and nobody's listening. the twenty-second is going to roll around and i'm going to not be prepared because i'm not going to have had any emails about anything.

do i sound worried, because i am. my trust in linden charging me properly each month is shaky to begin with. remember all those tax fiascos. something's not working.

Khamon,

Let's check your email just to make sure. Please send a note to [email]support@lindenlab.com[/email] with your current email address and then I can check to make sure our records are correct.

You should have received the general announcement email. If you haven't received something about your payment status, it could be because your monthly charges are either staying the same or decreasing.

Khamon Fate is not alone in the e-mail problem. I know of at least two other people that have had this email issue, to the point where they had to use my email address to become a paying subscriber. Now that they are subscribed we switched their preferences back to their real email, and they no longer get any of the automated style LL emails.

p.s. Pointless for them to email support, as they get the email sent directly by CS, just not any automated bulk style mailings.

i sent support a mail and subjected it to your attention. i am very impressed with the way you guys respond to the player base. i've never experienced such interaction and genuine consideration from a gang of devs.

this email thing just got on my nerves because it's based on real money and y'all kept saying that we would get them "today or tomorrow."

Thank you for your help Robin. I will be patient and wait for the list of what the L$ amounts will be. Chances are though they will be above what I have. I'll just maybe have to sell my land in Olive. I just simply can't afford $34.95 a month. The $25 a month I thought I was going to be paying was already stretching it. I'm sure, since math is not my strong suit, that I will have questions again after the L$ amounts are released. But I do thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions (and the thank you extends to all the Lindens).