POLL: Adult Debates

thanks

It's almost impossible to have adult debates with some people in the forums because they will report you for harrassment when you ask the most basic of questions.

I am sorry talen I cant respond your on ignore.

Cat

Like I said ...with some people it's impossible to have an adult debate.

Talen I am sorry I cant respond to you your on ignore.

I don't think there's anything that can be done about it, Catherine. I imagine the cure would be worse than the disease. There's really only two options... let people be themselves for better or worse, and accept that things will always be a mixture of intelligent comment, sillyness, and flamery, or clamp down with some kind of authoritarian control on the forums. To me the former is the lesser evil.

Chip; Maybe we need to start thinking outside the box? How about scheduled weekly debates in world with say 1 hot topic to be discussed for an hour. It would have to be done on a private sime so there is some control against griefers. Its an option, i find that in world I for one am a lot more relaxed lol and ppl just seem nicer for the most part.
Do you think this might be an option for the bigger hotter topics?

Cat

Sure, I think things like that could be beneficial. I don't think it would do anything to change the forums though.

I agree with this 100%. As a matter of fact, I was thinking of posting something similiar. In some threads, and the gov't. ones are a great example, folks don't get the answers they want to hear. They basically ignore all points, and counter points or questions, get mad and then sneer down their noses at those who are trying to debate. I don't mind so much when it becomes fractured because some very healthy mini-debates arise some times. It's very frustrating for me, personally, when folks become dismissive and try to project an air of intellectual or moral superiority because they have a different view. A good example is taking all the counterpoints and summing them up as equating to *OMG WTF?* I don't see that. I see some very logical counter-points against government, but as Einsman stated, those are not the answers some folks want so they will simply not answer valid questions and play the dismissal or *the sky is falling* games.

lol you may be right there. I for one would love to see us all start to come to some common ground on some of these issues maybe a change of scenery would breath some fresh air into all of us. Also another plus is only 10% of the population reads the forums I bet more ppl would get invoved if it was in world. At least more ppl would know about these issues and debates via the events schedule. Just bouncing some thoughts here. Please share your thoughts or ideas on this with me.

Cat

I just thought of another positive each week the debate/hot topic could be hosted on a different island sim we could help some folks out along the way. Just a thought

Cat

There seems to be your answer Cat.

Talen made a very simple responce and he gets;



I didn't see anything inflammitory about his response here and you decided to keep him on ignore. Non of my business why, maybe static I obviously don't know about.

Now you know I don't know you, or most forumers personally, so I always try to keep an open mind and offer genuine insight.

Remeber a thread, that may I say you got suckered into (the "poster" ate popcorn while you and Anshe went at it like wildcats).

We all should know by now I'm not into the personal attack thing, it sad adults can't be adults.

As for you Cathrine, and I do love you like a sis , this seems odd considering I spent half a day on that thread trying to intervine, mediate if you will, between you and Anshe and you refused to try to answer my questions, which were directly related to the topic, and instead continued to respond to the nonsense that others were baiting you with. For the record you both seemed to have valid points that I know we could have worked out given time I'm not a complete idiot, I know it must be frustrating to try to rationalize solutions on these forums with imature people continually interjecting. This went on to the point that I was FINALLY starting to get some answers out of you and the thread was LOCKED!!!

As is life, eh sweetheart?! But for an answer to your poll, yes ADULTS can have ADULT debates, just be mentally prepared for little children to run in and out and yellin and screamin, ya know, like we used to get the smack down laid on us by ma dukes for doing.

Don't take it personally hun, I'm just glad you now seem more interested in at least trying to work stuff out. Don't let your emotions get the best of you in here!!!

Let me know and, yes none of my business for real, but I would be more than happy to try to work with you and Anshe or whoever for that matter to help resolve things

I think the events the Thinkers group holds are great (er, at least they sound great... I'm not much of an event attendee) and I think that other debate/discussion types of events would be a nice addition to the world. You'd need strict moderation and even then it might be like herding cats and end up as chicken guns at ten paces more often than not... definitely worth experimenting with though

What seriously makes me sad is: seeing people I value as friends of mine -- who are not friends of each other -- repeatedly attack each another. It puts me in a tough position and I feel conflicted. I'm hurt to see what they're doing.

Jonny did you see above where i said something to the affect that i am working on not typing in responce to a gut reaction. Well you had something to do with that. Its realy hard not to let ppl get to you when they go on and on but I am working on it I think things are fine between anshe and myself are ok today I hear what your saying, its human nature to try to concentrate on the real points at hand when others insist on answers. I have learned that I only have to explain my point once or twice. Three times if I realy dont feel someone is getting the point. There is no need explain after that.

Which brings up a very good point in what you said; We have to realize our own limits and when stress starts to set in we don't have to respond. If someone is intentionaly irritating us we can mute them till we are no longer bothered.

Sometimes its best not to say what we feel in a moment of anger but to wait and consider others thoughts. I understand reading something and feeling like I got kicked in the gut, when the initial shock wears off I see things a lot easier.

I do appreciate what you tried to do You would make an excellent moderator!

Cat

Well I am willing to try it out for a couple of weeks to see if its something that would be an alternative. I think everyone sitting is a good way to start ppl seem more relaxed when they are sitting. Maybe in a sim with a park to start? or a nice shade tree for everyone to sit under? We would need the help of a sim owner to help coral those screaming cats if they start up. hehe. We need a moderator or two and a hot topic. Maybe even have a simple outline to keep us all on track. Also so the debate doesn't go on all night. I am not sure we can solve all of our differences in an hour or two but doing something is a start. Just some ideas not written in stone.

lol i loved that line "You'd need strict moderation and even then it might be like herding cats and end up as chicken guns at ten paces more often than not"


Cat

Torley I dont know if anyone else is also getting the impression that our sl is changing pretty quickly now. I for one am tired of all the negativity. I know its changing and I know we will all be affected by these changes. I think we would all be better off if we just gave in a little. Believe it or not I do get tired of speaking out about what is wrong, I would love to hear others have the ablilty to speak up. From both sides of an opinion.

Honestly if I had to do it all over again, I am not sure I would put myself threw all this heartache. I think I would try harder at finding a better way. Ah but we cant go back in time so what do we do from here

Cat

Thank you for your feedback, Nolan. I see that I didn't do a very good job of making my point; and I certainly didn't mean to diminish the serious discussion to date.

I have tendency to come out swinging when I am intimidated, and I find it very intimidating to think that I could get pummelled the way blaze did just for starting a conversation about something that interests me. So I stuck up for him.

Personally, regarding government, there is no answer I want to hear. In fact, I've heard very few good questions. When asked "Does SL need a government?" most people imagine (or remember) a bad form of government and explain why it wouldn't (or didn't) work. It's not a very good question. If there was a specific proposal out, I could form an opinion.

Nor do I feel like I know what's best for the community (wrt government), but I imagine with some time and thought I could develop an opinion. As for people who think they know what's best for the community, isn't that most of us? Certainly almost everybody in the government threads knows what's best.

And I don't get this "trying to push their agenda on us". How would that work? Certainly everybody has the right to try and win others to their perspective, provided they don't resort to force; but force is not possible here.

It's bits like this that leave me scratching my head and wondering what the conversation is really about.

Bravo to you young lady!!!!

*And the crowd goes wild*

These are the kind of things I truely take pleasure in. Knowing I may have help quell the storm is all one could ask for.

I'm watching you grow and mature before my very (bloodshot, we can guess why ) eyes.

There are some extremely brilliant minds in here and it would really behove us all to try to take advantage of the knowledge and wisdom that they have been generous enough to bestow upon us.

I'm glad, and proud, that you and Anshe are working things out.

This is for everyone:

Take a minute, close your eyes and think of the most aggrivating situation or individual you've encountered. Let it marinate! Ahhh man you feel that. Ready to rumble!!!!

Now. Think about that friends you chilled with, the friends that support you, even the friends you don't even know you have yet. Swish that around for taste.

Now you, and only you, can compare these two. Your heart will tell you which feels better.
Remember these feelings when flamed, trampled on, knocked down. Before any action, typing, punching, breaking or otherwise, let your heart remind of which is more pleasurable and rewarding. Now you may act. You'll honestly be suprised by the outcome, oh and others may be suprised too

*waves and cry.. (I ain't crying punk) as if Cat's going away to college*

Thank you as well. Upon rereading my post above I see I was markedly harsh. I apologize for that. I am no angel and I do tend to get defensive at times. This issue is close to my heart as SL's *wild west* type environment is one of the reasons I chose to participate. I enjoy the limited brand of anarchy we have, under our benign dictator(s). I hope there is no hard feelings. Respectfully, Nolan

how does an "adult debate" distinguish itself from other debates? the age of its participants?

considering life as a yes/no propostion will never be fruitful.

^ maturity level
The ability to remain on topic and refrain from superfolous sp? somments and flaming and general disruption of said thread or post

Does that help?

(comments) duh, man I could really benifit from m-w.com, ehh

i believe debates in general are governed by the notion of a dialectical discussion founded in reason and evidence. they are intended to be formal and cordial but using many parliaments around the world as examples none of these are often the case. they are full of heckling and jeering. in tiawan they have food fights.

perhaps the prefix adult is superfluous or perhaps the polling question is begging the question.

Just look at the British system. It echoes what Jauani is saying here. Sometimes people need to get fired up to break through barriers. I know in my experience, when in restropect I have seen the error of my ways, at times it was due to the vociferousness of my opponent(s).

No, this does not mean I believe shouting down an opponent is the answer either, but some rolled eyes are hardly greifing and nothing compared with some of the examples above. After all, none of the named countries seem to be imploding as a result of heated debate.