Oriental

Consider that the Chinese people themselves chose the name "middle kingdom" for their country/land/whatever. "Oriental" is equivalent in meaning to "middle" in that context (in other words, the center of everything, from which one orients oneself). So, shouldn't "oriental" imply Chinese people in particular, moreso with respect (a nod to their own semantic choice) than offense? Hmm...

I agree. Indeed, the very nature of human reality in our universe is based on difference. To recognize and understand "good", one must have "evil", etc, ad nauseum. The importance of a deep understanding of this cannot, IMO, be overstated. And that's why I think it's so goofy when people are always so hyper to make everything the "same" or "equal". I think it's just more sensible to acknowledge and celebrate humanity's differences, rather than trying to generalize everything to the point of meaninglessness.

I agree. Indeed, the very nature of human reality in our universe is based on difference. To recognize and understand "good", one must have "evil", etc, ad nauseum. The importance of a deep understanding of this cannot, IMO, be overstated. And that's why I think it's so goofy when people are always so hyper to make everything the "same" or "equal". I think it's just more sensible to acknowledge and celebrate humanity's differences, rather than trying to generalize everything to the point of meaninglessness.

Agreed Gene, I also find it funny that so many quote "Politicaly Correct" especially when its implimentation is so "Politicaly WRONG" hence the reason people make the old "Sensitive words" tomorrows Slander.

Oh well...Stupid is as Politically Correct does.

Shadow

I still think it comes down to the individual. I've heard eople of my race use the N word in reference to themselves. I've heard people of other races use the same word in reference to themselves and their friends. I don't like the word and don't want to use it or hear it. Just because they like it and use to describe themselves doesn't mean I'm wrong for not liking the word.

Ahh very nice. I had heard that before and forgotten the Indies connection. Thanks for that Rose. I did know of the tidbits concerning the Seminole and Creek's. I would love to see that museum and do a bit of gambling

And incidentally, I read an article somewhere that it would be sort of hard to find a black person (who was descended from slaves) who didn't have a bit of American Indian blood in them.

*Fun Fact*

Not in England it doesnt! And i consider myself an expert having be born, grown up, and lived here all my life!! Oriental means great furniture, gorgeous women, great food and a whole different life style. God damn i like oriental! =))

I'm a Delawarean, I'm sure SOMEBODY finds that an offensive term LOL

Thank god! There is finally a word that can objectify both a race and a gender!

you got that a lil bit wrong. you mean Noah not Moses. Abraham and Moses came alot later.


the answer is here.......

Indeed. It is noted amongst scholars(sic) that the original peoples of the earth were direct descendants of Adam and Eve and their incestual children.

The current populous if you stake belief in the bible is directly descended from Noah and his sons; Shem Ham and Japheth.

You do the math.

A discussion about whether or not the term is pejorative. At least some of the respondants appear to be of Asian ethnicity and/or residents of Asian countries:

http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-449.html


I hate to post a definition, as that gets some folks riled up, however, I think the Usage Note is worth reading. From dictionary.com:

o·ri·en·tal Audio pronunciation of "Oriental" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôr-ntl, r-)
adj.

1. often Oriental Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern.
2. Oriental Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and the islands of the Malay Archipelago.
3. Lustrous and valuable: oriental pearls.
4.
1. Of or relating to a genuine or superior gem: an oriental ruby.
2. Relating to or designating corundum that resembles another stone in color.


n.

often Oriental Often Offensive. An Asian.

ori·ental·ly adv.

Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
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I grew up in Minnesota, the home of Northwest Airlines, called "Northwest Orient" airlines for many years, into the 1980s if I remember correctly. Hmmm, I never considered why they may have dropped the term orient from their name. I certainly am wondering now.

My ex-wife is Korean. Not born in the US. Amongst the Korean communty in the town where we lived at the time, the term "oriental" was not looked upon as derogatory. To the contrary actually. I will go as far as to say that I heard the term and it's derivatives from the Korean community more than any other group. They used it to refer to people of Asiatic origin, foods, crafted items, etc. *Shrugs*

As far as those who have likened the term to racial slurs like "nigger", I am sorry, but I disagree. That word denotes skin color, not a geographic region .

I think someone needs to start a push to liberate us "caucasians" from the word "caucasian". My ancestors are from western and northern Europe, not a land mass between the Black and the Caspian Seas. Not even close.

Be careful folks, someday we may just run out of words...

True, but if you go back far enough, we're all from Africa.

So I should still be offended.

According to what a Japanese friend once told me... They (meaning himself, his family, his Asian friends and community, not all Asians I'm sure) use "Asian" when in reference to a person, and "Oriental" when in reference to other things. Asian person, Oriental rug, etc etc.

How correct that is for others, I don't know, but that's what I generally use.

Yep.

Son, I like the cut of your jib!

Jauani, I'm saying that the differences between Westerners and other Westerners is far less than the differences between Westerners and East Asians. So analogous comparisons between Germans and Canadians, or Jews and other Europeans, for example, doesn't tell you much. I was trying to explain why some of these greater differences existed, by referring to different ideas about individuality, community, and family that exist in the East and West.

On the thing about money and power, East Asians simply had different values than Europeans about such things, and different ways of handling it. Until the 20th century, when the world changed a lot.

Glad you got your answer about Asian Americans. Cheers.

Jauani, I'm saying that the differences between Westerners and other Westerners is far less than the differences between Westerners and East Asians. So analogous comparisons between Germans and Canadians, or Jews and other Europeans, for example, doesn't tell you much. I was trying to explain why some of these greater differences existed, by referring to different ideas about individuality, community, and family that exist in the East and West.

On the thing about money and power, East Asians simply had different values than Europeans about such things, and different ways of handling it. Until the 20th century, when the world changed a lot.

Glad you got your answer about Asian Americans. Since others were speaking for Asian Americans, I thought I'd try to say something about what I've experienced in East Asia. Another perspective. It's relevant if you think about it. No, I'm not really trying to get anyone to change their ways or words. That's entirely up to you.

Cheers.

Jauani, I'm saying that differences between Westerners and other Westerners are far less than differences between Westerners and East Asians. So analogous comparisons between Germans and Canadians, or Jews and other Europeans, for example, doesn't tell you much. I was trying to explain why some of these greater differences existed, by referring to different ideas about individuality, community, and family.

On the thing about money and power, East Asians simply had different values than Europeans about economic and political matters, and different ways of handling it. Until the 20th century, when the world changed a lot, largely because of Western power and money.

Glad you got your answer about Asian Americans. Since others were speaking for Asian Americans, I thought I'd say something about what I've experienced in East Asia. Another perspective. It's relevant if you think about it. No, I'm not really trying to get anyone to change their ways or words. That's entirely up to you.

But I'll say this. All this stuff about political correctness and liberation and running out of words and whatever is a Western conceit. And largely an American one, too. While Asian Americans might know what you're talking about, it wouldn't have much meaning to an East Asian. Angelina Becquerel hit it square on when she wrote about why language is important. It's important to get it right, not because it's "politically correct", but because otherwise a lot of people (nearly 4 billion by current estimates) wouldn't know what the hell you're talking about.

Ciao.

edited for typos

Jauani,

What you really meant to say is "Will there be NHL Hockey next year?"

BB

Dunno bout you but I'm decended from Thrall and Drudge.

Siggy.

Oh and I prefer to be refered to as Austro-Asshatian.

Yeah I know I misquoted but I didnt have a bible ready...and yes I meant Noah first..

Anyhoo in Genesis Chaper 4 verse 10 and 11

10 and Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
11 And Cain knew his wife and she concieved and bare Enoch.

Thus my question If Cain and Abel were the first two sons and Cain Slew Abel which we all knew how could they not list the other childeren as at this point its speculative as to the origin of Cains Wife...But anyway you look at it we are all cousins one way or another...frightening huh...LOL

Shadow