A rant about poor English

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary,
and those who don't."






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Arsenic*.¸¸.·´¨`»*





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"i will only post in binary code from now on"

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6F746869
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65617473
20676F6F
64204865
782E00

I'll never buy that excuse. Granted there are abbreviations that become words themselves (like lol, omg, wtf, and rtfm), and those don't bother be at all, but I refuse to accept that life moves so fast now that people "don't have time" to write complete sentences comprised of actual words. Maybe when I'm old and laying on my deathbed I'll wish I could get those nanoseconds back, but I highly doubt it. Besides, what kind of time savings is it when you have to say it twice because no one knew what the hell you were saying the first time? It's laziness, not necessity.

Ok, this was the subject of my final thesis of Linguistic History last semester, so: Bullshit. "Netspeak" is lazy, pure and simple. It's not a speed thing - the time difference between typing "you" and "u", for the average typist, is so small as to be irrelivent, even when the word is used often.

Meh. I only really care when it's garbled or difficult to read ... in which case I tend to skip whatever it is the person is saying. I do get annoyed when it's really bad, but I don't care if people want to act "gangsta." Whatever. I can understand that kind of talk, just like I can read l3375p34k, even though I rarely use it myself.

That's not binary! Bah! A hex on you!

it might be irrelevant and confusing to the reader, and slightly to the clock ...
but probably not as irrelevant to the typist ...

net and chat speakers are often regarded as illiterate, morons, incoherent,
idiotic, ignoring the rules of spelling and grammar etc ...
and having lower than average IQ ...

is that how you would sum up Netspeakers? ...

since you did go so far as to characterize it and them as bullshit and lazy ...




*´¨`·.¸¸.*Arsenic


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Hate the Game, G. Don't hate the Playah. Feel me?

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.

Actually, I characterized you as spouting bullshit, not all "netspeakers". Those I just characterized as lazy - I said nothing about them being illiterate (although they haven't proven otherwise), morons (probably not), incoherent (self evident), idiotic (subjective), ignoring the rules of spelling and grammar (self evident) or of having lower than average IQ (which has nothing to do with the debate)

Buuuut, since you bring those subjects up...

jeee ...why stop there? ... heh


im all eyes ...


¸·:·´Arsenic




.

Lack of skills?

That's not very nice, is it?

LOL. Does anyone here actually know what binary is??

01101100 01110101 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110011

dawg, u r so rite! i 4 one welcum our neu ganstarz!!!!111

werd1

sys64738

ready.

pO53281,0 : pO53280,0
1?"blah"
2goto1
run
blah
blah
blah
blah

break In 1
ready.
new

ready.
lO"binary*",8,1
loadingot found error
ready.
run

If only I had........................





(as few things to worry about).

It seems to me that people who use it are also very limited in what they can actually say. They have to use the same set of practiced lines over and over because if they don't then no-one except them will know what the hell they are saying. It's more like scripts or schemas than actual language.

Assuming that the original poster really was serious about the topic, I would like to add some thoughts.

There is more to gangster speak - never assume intention when it can be explained by pure stupidity.

First some words on the poor english itself.

Word order
English is a very restricted language. German for example has the possibility to set part of the sentence nearly everywhere due to the word endings - they ensure 'the position'. Single language native speaker of English *really* do have a problem with understanding such sentences.

It is very hard for a German speaker to get this and therefore they do sound "yoda" from time to time (or more often). It is my observation that people who are in contact with spanish speaking people often are 'softer' on this topic because they already seem to be used to "strange" stile.

If you encounter this kind of problem, try to adapt yourself a bit to it or at least recognize that it is this kind of problem. This has nothing to do with knowledge or skills, this is just your training since childhood, it is absolutely natural to you, and you usually find it irritating how somebody could not get this.

Just as it is irritating, strange and time consuming for me to try to put the words in the correct order. Or for example - because this is how it is handled in German - say 'the computer who just crashed'. You are probably looking for the missing person (it would be "the computer which", but in German the computer is referred to in male form, so "who" is in my mind with the female / male gender and "which" would describe a neutral gender. As things have no gender in English, my brain takes over and uses the German gender.

You do have some of those, though. The ship, cat = she.

if you encounter something like this, and you are at least interested, give the other person an idea why you have a problem, tell them you don't understand them.

"I am sorry, but your sentence makes no sense to me with this order of words. Could you try and rephrase it?" should remind a non native speaker of his or her training lessons in school where the teacher put emphasis on that.

idioms / range of word knowledge
As native speaker you are fluent in your idioms and which words to use. Non native speakers do learn a special vocabulary they feel comfortable with and use it all the time. My favorite words are "stuff" and "things". I made a quick count and can come up at least 10 different words like that "stuff" in German. Language seems limited when you talk to a person.

Note that you are bothered with the limited amount of words of a person which is a second language to him. (They will be happy to speak in their natural language to you and give you a chance to see how sophisticated they can be. Well, are those few lines of english starting to make sense to you?)

The basic vocabulary afaik is around 2000 words - and with that you are already in good business for speaking english. Writing is even more restricted - one has the natural tendency to avoid words which you are not able to spell.

It is normal to use your natural idioms - only to learn that most of them are not valid in English. So you not only have to loose your favorite idioms and the way you translate what you want to say, you also have to learn new strange ones. Talking about cats and dogs here - something which is so funny if taken literally ...


'Misplaced' word, false friends, common words.

As with favorite words, you also have favorite mistakes. 'Misplaced' is one I encountered several times now. What I wanted to say is mistake / confuse and especially with word order in sentences.

It makes perfect sense to me as a German to say 'misplaced the words (in order of the sentence)'. It usually makes no sense at all for native speakers to the degree of being highly puzzling.

Tenses / Grammar also is a point: You will never be as good with tenses and grammar than you are by default in your natural language. Don't ask me why I use tense xyz in German, I know it is right. To do it correct in English I need to *know* which time I want to use and also need to know if there is a difference in how tenses are used in English (there is - it is much stricter).

So again, it is not only translating but transferring knowledge which makes it harder for pure natural speaker to understand.

False Friends as in common mistakes like for example describing somebody as brave when in fact I was searching the translation for well behaved (brav in German).

http://german.about.com/library/blfalsef.htm
gives you a bit hard to read list, just look at the english words on both sides and you will note the huge difference in meaning.

Coming from German, these are mistakes Germans are highly likely to make - other languages have the same problem.


Not even knowing what we get ourself into
This thread about an obscene profil (or not) brings up a whole new dimension in talking to each other: culture and values. Shit is more just a word for me with no other meaning and while I do not say it that often in German (scheisse), shit is softer / not as hard to me because of the different language. I do prefer shoot but mainly because I like the sound of it.

The thread in question is
/108/23/132414/1.html

and let me tell you: Obviously there are some differences in word I do not see. NOTHING on that page has any meaning to me in obscene meaning even if I would try to put on the more restrict american view on it. It just does not tell me anything.

I heard of a guy who went to the UK and had to learn the hard way to change his nickname in real life. Running around introducing yourself as 'Hi I am Randy' seems to mean "Hi I am horny".


If you take all of this together, it may be more understandable why some none native speaker tend to speak fewer words (additionally shortened by chat language which makes it easier), make unusual spelling mistakes nobody does (our words train our fingers differently than with english words which is why one makes those unusual mistakes) and why they speak funny.

Which still is no reason to have patience with idiots who are incapable of expressing themselves and are just morons. In any language possible.

Which brings me to the point of the original poster:
Additionally to the challenges described above most people still are not 10-finger typers, so typing takes time. And they are in an interactive game where others manage to talk fast and fine english - well kind of. Most conversations I observe accidentally are full of abbriviations and alike - just by native speaker meaning there is a little more meat to it.

I am not saying you should pity them. But you should give them a chance to learn.
Why not make a notecard and hand it to such people? If you take the effort of ranking them, you can instead make the more useful effort of handing them a message url for example to this thread.

Back to the morons: It that is a teenage boy giddying with fun over the cool sex babes running around and offering 'making love' all the time, is it a wonder that they feel this is natural? And all the bling and shiny shiny? Male predominantly in Arnold Schwarzenegger mode (back when he was Mr. Universe) *That* for me more gangster style than anything else.

And you wonder why such people get the impression it would be okay to talk this way?

Because you do more to discredit your own views than I ever could.

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Don't be hate'n.

quite frankly i think you are a discredit
to your course and studies of Linguistics

you fail to recognise the mosaic of the language we use daily ...
its constant changes according to time, place, conditions,
innovations, culture and technology ... as well as its use
as part of human genius and genus.

its to your laziness of perception not to recognise that

but i do understand your need to look for affirmation
by simply characterising Netspeak, or me as Bullshit,
while you ignore the obvious ... we've been down this road before

and really ...
my original thoughts on the subject were pretty innocuous
to have deserved your kind response: but then maybe you just take
things and yourself a little too seriously 0.o


and again i sense your lacking comprehension and twisting my words ...
*thats not very linguistic of you*

you see, i DIDNT say that "YOU) said nothing about them being illiterate"

i merely ASKED if thats how you would sum netspeakers up,
as they are often characterized that way.

for some reason you seem awful offended, sensitive and arrogant
to some things i have to say, even when they arent directed at you heh

but this is an open forum ... so do carry on as you wish



very simply however ... language changes, because language is not
bullshit, nor is it lazy

as a student of Linguistics ...
you should be able to recognise why we spell
and speak the way we do today

you should have beeen able to learn the etymologies
of words and chart their changes in meanings and usages

you ought to know the differences among the major periods
of English ... old, middle, modern, and now, contemporary-techno

therefore, you should also know how major English, American
and Foreign Authors, Poets, and Lyricists use the resources
of language, modernism and technology, and the USES of modernism
and technology to effect changes in language, whether it is netspeak,
hip hop, or gangsta, or 01110111 00101111 01100101

if you did, then you wouldnt describe the differences among
todays American-English dialects, and cultrualisms as "bulshit or lazy"

you, as you claim, studied linguistics ...

then one would think you would love the ideas of study,
the experiences of understanding and the insights,
into every nuance of every sentence and word you hear,
read or think, rather than JUST arbitrarily calling it all bullshit or lazy

language is always changing and is adapting to the needs of its users

or didnt you know that?

you might call some aspects of it bullshit and lazy,
but then you seem to have a personal ax to grind,
so its understandable, tho not very admirable.

you should know that if language hadnt changed, just even from
the dark ages of the 1950's, we wouldnt have modems, fax machines,
cable or tv, or even rock & roll ...

and as long as we do, language and users are going to change,
even if you call some aspects of it bullshit and lazy

there may even be some truth to what you say ... but ONLY to some of it ...
but certainly not in the context, nor to the extent you express here

i just wonder, were there people like you around
who called Shakespeare bullshit and lazy, who were more used to
the languages of Chaucer or Beowulf? ...

you should know the answer to that one *g*

more than anyone here, Mr Linguistic, (or Mz), it is because of
new technologies, new products and NEW EXPERIENCES, that require
new terms, a newer means to express them, to understand them
more quickly and effeciently.

old bullshit and old laziness stifles new experiments and new progress

technology and the internet more than ever before
has brought together more people, more languages and more cultures

it has also brought new terminologies, in order to refer
to them and to understand them better.

in addition to new technologies, and more world cultures
coming together in mass communication, you should also know
from your amazing achievement in taking Linguistic Courses,
that many of changes in language start with teens and young adults.

as teens and different cultures interact over the internet,

language evolves, and grows, (depending on ones point of view),
to form, and to include, new words, new meanings and derivations,
new phrases and construction, from one culture to another ...
from one generation to the other, different from the older generation


OR DINZT ZU NO DAT?

yea yea ... netspeak can be annoying and confusing ... LOL
and of course some phrases dont last long, but others do stick ...
like "thats hot" ... as some forms of "NETSPEAK" will sitck too ... DUH!

if anything, its your archaic opinion and attitude on the subject
that sounds like un-Linguistical bullshit and laziness to me.


hey "BUUUUT" w/e ... its only a game
(ish dat ^ netspeak?)


soooooo ...


*´¨`·.¸¸.*Arsenic


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Once again Chip, you expressed thoughts much easier than I could.

The one thing that gets me is when someone tries to represent themselves as some kind of expert in a RL field and then proceeds to use poor spelling. It detracts from any validity of their message.

.
Regarding:



i remember we once had a long long chat ...

and youre right ... if it was over in a nano second
due to netspeak, it wouldnt have been as much fun,
nor as informative ...


thanks so much for that


¸·:·´Arsenic



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