Thanks ACLU: War Memorial To Be Torn Down
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Helen Goff
Registered User
Join date: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 71
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05-11-2006 14:08
From: Jonas Pierterson Because the government is bound by the constitution to not endorse any one religion over another, simply. They can't put more christian displays up than satanist or wiccan, constitutionally. The number of adherents does not matter.
Champie: because they only use the one religious symbol. They have to endorse all equally, or none. Let sput an upside down cross beside it, for the satanists, shall we? Christians are not the only group to use the cross as a symbol.. Maybe they are the mostly widely known. I disagree with the way this is interpreted. I think if the "symbol" is passive and does not require anyone to use it or acknowledge it in anyway, it should be allowed. But as I am not a person of power or money, it does not matter what I think US laws should be. |
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DolphPun Somme
The Pun is its own reword
Join date: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 309
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05-11-2006 14:10
That got me curious and I had to go look. As I thought. Not a SINGLE Pantheist, Pagan, Taoist, or Zen headstone. Sounds like a choice to me.  I expected this. Welcome to The United States of Jesusland. Kudos to the ACLU. I know if I tried to errect a giant pentagram or ankh, the zealots would be out in force. Even on private land. *bonks self for even getting involved in this flame war* |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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05-11-2006 14:20
From: Lecktor Hannibal Hmmm, follow the Snopes link Jillian. There are quotes from Cindy in there and they say nothing about the circumstances you describe. Just noticed this - sorry, Lecktor.. I switched subjects on you withour sayin'... |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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05-11-2006 14:53
From: DolphPun Somme I expected this. Welcome to The United States of Jesusland. Yeah, that's why there are all those NON CHRISTIAN faiths offered. They have major religions, but not ALL religions. Not saying that's good, but it's not "the united states of jesusland". From: DolphPun Somme Kudos to the ACLU. I know if I tried to errect a giant pentagram or ankh, the zealots would be out in force. Even on private land. So the answer to stupid bigotry is stupid bigotry. God bless Eye for an Eye!
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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05-11-2006 15:02
From: Billybob Goodliffe a feather would need changing depths to look right would it not? No. From: Billybob Goodliffe and where in my post did i say it would be a minority? one or 2? try hundreds per year, you do realize its not just the ppl who die in Iraq that are eligible to be buried in Arlington or wherever? If hundreds are year are dying that need them, then it's not a minority any longer, si it, and there shouldn't be a problem. Oh, wait - the entire arguement is that the government shouldn't cater to every small religion. So which is it? From: Billybob Goodliffe so and if everyone wanted a unique design on thiers you see the volume i am referring to? Reduction to the absurd isn't an arguement. From: Billybob Goodliffe i would love to have a rebel flag on mine but i can't. Do you worship the confederate battle flag, now?
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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05-11-2006 15:03
Sometimes you need to consider intent. While the cross is a symbol offensive to those who have been persecuted by Christians or who have been forced to worship the Christian religion - I do not believe this was the intent of the memorial.
The intent of memorial was to honor men who died serving our country, regardless of their religion. It's been in place for 52 years. As far as I'm concerned 50 years makes it a fossil. A cross is not particularly out of place in a cemetery or at a memorial like it would be in a court of law or a school.
So while I understand while the cross is offensive to some, I think that the effort to remove it is as extreme on behalf of the atheists as were the actions of that nut Roy Moore's placement of the Ten Commandment's in a state court house. Just the two halfs of the same radical coin.
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 15:08
I find this whole issue offensive on two levels.
As a veteran, I'm angry that the ACLU and this guy are going after a war memorial just to further their own secular agenda.
As a Christian, I'm angry because I know full well that there wouldn't be an issue if it were anything but a cross.
-Kiamat Dusk
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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05-11-2006 15:19
Sometimes I get a little bugged by the bad rap the ACLU gets. "Oh that darn ACLU!"
They simply take up causes for ANYONE who feels their rights are being trampled ... even if that view is unpopular by the majority.
Thank god that we do have something like the ACLU. I think a lot of people blasting them would be a lot less happy with the way things are in this country if there wasn't an organization who will stand up for the little guy, regardless of what the issue is.
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It's Official! From: Trinity Serpentine Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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05-11-2006 15:25
From: Kiamat Dusk I find this whole issue offensive on two levels.
As a veteran, I'm angry that the ACLU and this guy are going after a war memorial just to further their own secular agenda.
As a Christian, I'm angry because I know full well that there wouldn't be an issue if it were anything but a cross.
-Kiamat Dusk
I find people's lack of tolerance for personal spiritual convictions to be highly annoying and, IMHO, disrespectful. People often forget that not everyone belongs to the same religion (or any religion, for that matter). The popularity of a single religion usually wins out as 'good enough' for everyone with little to no regard for the feelings and beliefs of others.
I also firmly believe that the religious symbol makes no difference in the issue, other than it being the symbol for the predominant religion in this geographic section of the world. It would most likely be the same story if instead of a cross it were any of the dozens of other religious symbols *and* was the predominant religion.
That's my take on it anyway. I find it disrespectful to have a 'blanket' coverage and assumption by placing such a large cross. It assumes that everyone is Christian and screw the rest of them. |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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05-11-2006 15:25
From: Jellin Pico Sometimes I get a little bugged by the bad rap the ACLU gets. "Oh that darn ACLU!"
They simply take up causes for ANYONE who feels their rights are being trampled ... even if that view is unpopular by the majority.
Thank god that we do have something like the ACLU. I think a lot of people blasting them would be a lot less happy with the way things are in this country if there wasn't an organization who will stand up for the little guy, regardless of what the issue is. Thier track history of fights picked isn't exactly stellar. Checks and balances are good but being always on the onesided slant gets old.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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05-11-2006 15:35
From: Rose Karuna I think Chip, that in 1954, this sincerely is what they intended; to honor the soldiers - not to push an agenda. I have to disagree with you, Rose. 1954 is the year the Knights of Columbus lobbied Congress into inserting "under god" into the pledge of allegience and the ten commandments started being erected on statehouse lawns and on courthouse walls all over the country. There was a very strong Christian/anti-atheist agenda in this country at that time. There seems to be a pattern. When something scares the shit out of the general population, conservative Christianity starts to assert itself aggressively and innapropriately. It's happening now. I see things like this as pluralism trying to push back and assert itself. I'm sure the atheist that's suing isn't trying to get the monument replaced with a giant darwin fish or the flying spaghetti monster. 
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
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05-11-2006 15:38
From: Kiamat Dusk This is just disgusting. Can a battle over the crosses in Arlington National Cemetery be far behind? SAN DIEGO - A federal judge on Wednesday ordered cash-strapped San Diego to remove a 29-foot cross from city-owned property within 90 days or face $5,000 in daily fines. [snip] The 20-ton cross was dedicated as a memorial on Easter Sunday in 1954 atop Mount Soledad to the veterans of the Korean War. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/14492878.htmSan Diego atheist Philip Paulson has waged a 17-year legal battle against the cross. City officials have tried to sell the land underneath the cross to a local veterans' memorial association, but federal judges have repeatedly blocked the sale. The Supreme Court refused to hear the city's case in 2003. http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=4856893&nav=9qrx-Kiamat Dusk ...disgusted, but not suprised... Good, time for that religious symbol to topple. good riddence. |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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05-11-2006 15:41
From: Magnum Serpentine Good, time for that religious symbol to topple. good riddence. Oh good now the discussion can progress that the star chamber has checked in.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Champie Jack
Registered User
Join date: 6 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,156
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05-11-2006 15:57
Best of luck to all of you in this thread. I'm headed over to the memorial now to take some pictures and begin my recreation of the memorial on top of the great mountain in Phobos. Come and visit.
IM me if you want to help.
Champie.
ps Chip, the memorial was originally constructed in 1913-14, rebuilt in 1930's(?), then again in 1954 when it was rebuilt and rededicated to fallen soldiers of the past 3 wars in which Americans fought.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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05-11-2006 15:57
From: Lecktor Hannibal Oh good now the discussion can progress that the star chamber has checked in. But then, I suspect that a lot of members in that group would support taking down that cross on public land. |
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 16:00
I can fully understand Magnum's objection to the cross, what with him being a Vampire and all...  -Kiamat Dusk ....Conservative Christian Vampire....
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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05-11-2006 16:02
From: Kiamat Dusk I can fully understand Magnum's objection to the cross, what with him being a Vampire and all... -Kiamat Dusk ....Conservative Christian Vampire.... good one
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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05-11-2006 16:02
Hey Champie, post some pictures, will ya? Please? 
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 16:05
From: Lecktor Hannibal good one Lek, I just saw your pic in the 1st Life Picture Thread. Who's that girl? -Kiamat Dusk ...wait-did I just sing a Madonna lyric!?
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Zephria Zapata
Anit-Gorean & Slave
Join date: 7 Apr 2004
Posts: 299
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05-11-2006 16:11
From: Kiamat Dusk I can fully understand Magnum's objection to the cross, what with him being a Vampire and all... -Kiamat Dusk ....Conservative Christian Vampire.... That such a Oximoron lol a Conservative Christian Vampire lol is there such a thing ... i dont think so .... if you can find one please show me ... |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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05-11-2006 16:15
From: Kiamat Dusk Lek, I just saw your pic in the 1st Life Picture Thread. Who's that girl?
-Kiamat Dusk
...wait-did I just sing a Madonna lyric!? Oh man I need to kill that one. That's an ex.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 16:19
From: Zephria Zapata That such a Oximoron lol a Conservative Christian Vampire lol is there such a thing ... i dont think so ....
if you can find one please show me ... Well...here's one...  -Kiamat Dusk
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 16:20
From: Lecktor Hannibal Oh man I need to kill that one. That's an ex.  I really hope you mean the picture and not the ex... -Kiamat Dusk
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Zephria Zapata
Anit-Gorean & Slave
Join date: 7 Apr 2004
Posts: 299
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05-11-2006 16:25
From: Kiamat Dusk I really hope you mean the picture and not the ex... -Kiamat Dusk lol Kiamat ... So strange to find a christain Vampire ,, Since the Majority of them Believe in satan ... |
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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05-11-2006 16:26
From: Zephria Zapata lol Kiamat ... So strange to find a christain Vampire ,, Since the Majority of them Believe in satan ... Ummm....don't let it get around...but Christians believe in Satan, too. We just don't worship him.  That said, I'm a lot of things I'm not supposed to be according to the groupthink. For example, I think I was the only Conservative at the DC Leatherfest this weekend. -Kiamat Dusk
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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