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Buhamut Bligh
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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02-23-2006 11:32
Uhh, yeah. And what if the mother is just a child herself? 13 year olds have been pregnant before. It has been confirmed that this particular hypothetical 13 year old will not survive a full pregnancy. Which do we protect? The 13 year old or the baby? And no calling the 13 year old a slut or anything please, just assume it was forced on her. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:33
You didn't say unconditionally. That's an entierly different can of worms. I said "Either you support a woman's right to control her body or you don't", which clearly indicates complete control. |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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02-23-2006 11:35
Incorrect once again. No wonder Kevn is so confused about my point of view. He places words in my mouth. I haven't said anything about abortions after the first trimester.
As far as the science/religion comment. I think my point was made clear enough for reasonable people who have followed that discussion to understand. Anyone else isn't worth my time explaining it to. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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02-23-2006 11:35
I said "Either you support a woman's right to control her body or you don't", which clearly indicates complete control. No, it doesn't. I support the right of citizens to own weapons. I don't support the right of citizens to own tactical nukes. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:35
And what if the mother is just a child herself? 13 year olds have been pregnant before. It has been confirmed that this particular hypothetical 13 year old will not survive a full pregnancy. Which do we protect? The 13 year old or the baby? And no calling the 13 year old a slut or anything please, just assume it was forced on her. This is wrong. A 13 year old is perfectly able to bear children if she has started her menstruation. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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02-23-2006 11:36
This is wrong. A 13 year old is perfectly able to bear children if she has started her menstruation. You didn't answer the question put forth. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Buhamut Bligh
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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02-23-2006 11:37
This is wrong. A 13 year old is perfectly able to bear children if she has started her menstruation. "It has been confirmed that this particular hypothetical 13 year old will not survive a full pregnancy." Now please try again. |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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02-23-2006 11:41
This is wrong. A 13 year old is perfectly able to bear children if she has started her menstruation. Health Risks to the Teenage Mother The teenage mother has special problems, physically and emotionally. * The death rate from pregnancy complications is much higher among girls who give birth under age 15 than among older mothers. * The teenage mother is more likely to be undernourished and suffer premature or prolonged labor. * During the first three months of pregnancy; seven out of ten pregnant teenagers do not see a doctor or go to a clinic. * Poor eating habits, smoking, alcohol and drugs increase the risk of having a baby with health problems. _____________________
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Broadly offensive. |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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02-23-2006 11:42
A false dilemma is when a person offers only two choices when others exist. We all know that. That's a fair question. Do you support a woman's right to control her body unconditionally or not? It's not a false dilemma at all. There is no in-between, you either believe a woman has absolute control over her body or not. If you draw a line anywhere during pregnancy you are saying "no, she doesn't have absolute control." What is your answer to that question, BTW? In case you haven't figured it out yet Kevn, there are other alternatives between "no control" and "absolute control". _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:43
No, it doesn't. I support the right of citizens to own weapons. I don't support the right of citizens to own tactical nukes. You either support the right of a woman to control her body ornot. Where do you find middle ground here? There are people who draw the line as to when an abortion is legal. I draw the line at conception, Zuzu draws the line at the first 3 months of gestation. We both support limits on the control a woman has over her own body. We both draw a line. Some people say there should be no line, women should be free to choice, according to their own conscience. Where do you stand? With the people who say woman have control of their body or those who would limit the control women have over their own body? |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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02-23-2006 11:43
Yes, I support a woman's right to what happens to her body.
Just as I would support a man's right to what happens to his body. It is not my job to judge people for their desicions, but apparently, it is yours, considering your little rant about women who have abortions being sluts. _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:45
"It has been confirmed that this particular hypothetical 13 year old will not survive a full pregnancy." Now please try again. Then the child would be removed via c-section. |
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Buhamut Bligh
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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02-23-2006 11:47
Then the child would be removed via c-section. Nice, completely avoiding the point of the question. I should have left out the word "full". Somehow I knew you'd pull something like that. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:48
Nice, completely avoiding the point of the question. I should have left out the word "full". Somehow I knew you'd pull something like that. Yes, I'm bad for seeking a way to save both children. BTW, your question was an example of a false dilemma, there are more options than you offered. |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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02-23-2006 11:49
Nice, completely avoiding the point of the question. I should have left out the word "full". Somehow I knew you'd pull something like that. Ah, but he's good at avoiding questions. He still hasn't answered one of my questions from several pages ago.  Good luck with that  _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:51
Ah, but he's good at avoiding questions. He still hasn't answered one of my questions from several pages ago. Good luck with that I'm good at ignoring points made in order to derail a topic |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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02-23-2006 11:52
Yes, I'm bad for seeking a way to save both children. No, you're "bad" for lacking any sort of knowledge about pregnancy while pronouncing upon others how they should handle theirs. There are medical conditions that put a pregnant woman's life in jeopardy long before a c-section could be performed, ie, ecampsia -- which, by the way, is more common in teenage pregnancies. _____________________
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Broadly offensive. |
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Leilany LaFollette
Not old, just older
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
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02-23-2006 11:53
I don't know why I am so judgemental of people who kill other innocent people. I'm just strange that way I guess. Your forum siggy says *God is love*... God is also tolerance, compassion, forgiveness and acceptance, right?  _____________________
Es el libertador. Es el océano, lejos, allá, en mi patria, que me espera...
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:53
No one wants to admit they support limits on a woman's right to an abortion besides Zuzu? Amazing.
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Leilany LaFollette
Not old, just older
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
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02-23-2006 11:54
What I would like to see in my dream world: 1. Frank, honest and open sex education for children. Discussion not only of absintance, STDs, and birth control, but also of the potential risks (including emotional) with both abortion and adoption. 2. Easily available birth control on demand, including the morning after pill as well as drugs that prevent the attachment of a fertilized egg. 3. Safe and legal abortion when requested in the first trimester, including counseling both before and after for as long as needed. (with good sex education, this should become a more rare occurance) 4. Real funding for assistance programs to help women keep their babies (and children). 5. Adoption as a last resort including counseling both before and after for as long as needed. As I have said before, if people are serious about stopping abortion, they need to do more than yell and pass laws making it illegal. They need to get out their checkbooks and start helping people. If life is priceless, then you should be willing to give a little money to keep it. Completely agree _____________________
Es el libertador. Es el océano, lejos, allá, en mi patria, que me espera...
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Buhamut Bligh
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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02-23-2006 11:54
Yes, I'm bad for seeking a way to save both children. Fine, wanna play that game? We'll play that game. Another hypothetical child, age 14, is 4 months pregnant. If the baby remains another 2 months, the 14 year old will die from the mal-nutrition caused by it.(simply eating more will not fix this, funny man). If the unborn child is removed before then, it will die from the affects of mal-nutrition on the mother since then. What should be done? Please, no arguing the "woulds" or "wouldn't"s. Just answer the damn question. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:55
Your forum siggy says *God is love*... God is also tolerance, compassion, forgiveness and acceptance, right? God loves the little Children. Jesus said it would be better for you that a rock be hung around your neck and be thrown into the sea than to harm one of these little ones. Sorry, you brought up God. |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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02-23-2006 11:56
I'm good at ignoring points made in order to derail a topic So, how is a question about preventing abortion off-topic in this thread? Do you support use of birth control (by both men & women)? Do you support brutally honest sex education in schools, including usage of birth control, not only abstinence? Do you support use of the morning after pill, which prevents the sperm from penetrating the egg? These were my questions to you (except the last one which I just added) and have EVERYTHING to do with abortion. _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-23-2006 11:57
Fine, wanna play that game? We'll play that game. Another hypothetical child, age 14, is 4 months pregnant. If the baby remains another 2 months, the 14 year old will die from the mal-nutrition caused by it.(simply eating more will not fix this, funny man). If the unborn child is removed before then, it will die from the affects of mal-nutrition on the mother since then. What should be done? Please, no arguing the "woulds" or "wouldn't"s. Just answer the damn question. I would suggest the baby stay in the womb until the last possible minute, then be removed via c-section and treated as a premature baby. |
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Leilany LaFollette
Not old, just older
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
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02-23-2006 11:58
Lunch by the way is grilled pork chops, curried cauliflower, and a tossed green salad with fresh crumbled blue cheese. I'm jealous... _____________________
Es el libertador. Es el océano, lejos, allá, en mi patria, que me espera...
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