This didn't, but what the hey.
You do know my knickname is "Steel-Kitten" right?
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Scientific Proof of the Existence of God |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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10-21-2005 13:31
You do know my knickname is "Steel-Kitten" right? _____________________
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
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10-21-2005 13:41
Miracles are a purely religious notion. What is a miracle but something that seems extraordinary that can't be explained? I just call that the unexplained. If I knew that a god caused it then it would no longer be unexplained, and hence no longer miraculous. These words are spoken by someone who has clearly never visited the Miraculous Winking Jesus. Go to this website. http://www.winkingjesus.com/ Did Jesus wink at you? Now do you believe in miracles? _____________________
Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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10-21-2005 13:51
You do know my knickname is "Steel-Kitten" right? Yes, I've heard about you on the circuit. A 4th degree ryu in Kegel-Fu, right? You're a legend. I heard you even took one guy's head off. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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10-21-2005 13:52
These words are spoken by someone who has clearly never visited the Miraculous Winking Jesus. Go to this website. http://www.winkingjesus.com/ Did Jesus wink at you? Now do you believe in miracles? Finally the proof I've been seeking! _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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10-21-2005 14:02
You do know my knickname is "Steel-Kitten" right? "I thought you was dead." _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-21-2005 17:36
I would disagree. Since you say you see plain evidence of God in the leaf and the child, both yourself and the atheists are applying reason and logical inference, even while drawing different conclusions. I would ask you - is that truly faith on anyone's part? Likely, I would guess your faith stems from somewhere else. As it should, because if scientific explanations were to show no evidence of God but fully explain leaves, babies and so forth, would you abandon your faith? I am guessing you would not. This is a very honest, sincere question, something to think about even if you don't answer it here. However, most atheists I know would likely board the Jesus train after a few convincing miracles, whatever their current claims might be. Your point atheists would change their minds if it could be proven God exists is accepted at face value by me, they may. But, your point about changing my mind by showing through science how life began doesn't hold water. Maybe you could do this instaead.. prove God doesn't exist with science. Make it proof that can't be denied. Then ask the question. That would be a fair comparison. You give atheists the benefit of the doubt, if God was to be proven(or show up one day). But for my side you want us to believe God doesn't exist if only science can show life began naturally. All nature is God to me, so anything that is done naturally is done through God, by definition. |
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Sherrianne Hailey
Registered User
Join date: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 71
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10-21-2005 18:01
Religious people might want to consider doing a bit of cost benefit analysis before trying to convince hardcore atheists that god exists and should be worshipped in the proper manner.
The time and intellectual effort spent on these hard cases is almost guaranteed to be wasted. These hard core, ardent, evangelical atheists are going to go Hell if there is a just God up above. They spend their whole lives trying to turn people away from God. Turning away from God - well, if you turn away from God, what are you turning toward? If God exists, and sends people to Hell for evil beliefs, for failing to worship and honor him, then these hardcore atheists are doomed. God's interests would be better served by ignoring these heathens, giving them as small an audience as possible for their unGodly views. The are plenty of people who are more likely to be to led on the path to righteousness and salvation than lifelong atheists. It's just good economic sense to focus one's effort on saving souls that stand a snowball's chance in Hell of being saved than it is to waste one's time trying to help lifelong preachers of atheism. |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-21-2005 18:07
Well said, Sherriane! Those damn athiests! I keep Holy Water right by the front door, so when those heathens approach my house trying to 'convert' me, I just splash them with it and watch them run for cover.
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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10-21-2005 18:17
I keep Holy Water Heathen Johnny Scientist Won't be knockin at my door! For that Holy H2O Works like H2SO4!  -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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10-21-2005 18:18
Religious people might want to consider doing a bit of cost benefit analysis before trying to convince hardcore atheists that god exists and should be worshipped in the proper manner. The time and intellectual effort spent on these hard cases is almost guaranteed to be wasted. These hard core, ardent, evangelical atheists are going to go Hell if there is a just God up above. They spend their whole lives trying to turn people away from God. Turning away from God - well, if you turn away from God, what are you turning toward? Then, of course, what if there is some sort of diety, but isn't the popular one 'cause we've got it all wrong? What if Dread Cthulhu really does lie dreaming? _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-21-2005 18:19
Jesus hung out with sinners, because there's no sense preaching to the choir
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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10-21-2005 18:22
Jesus hung out with sinners, because there's no sense preaching to the choir Jesus was also beaten, speared, and crucified. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-21-2005 18:25
Jesus was also beaten, speared, and crucified. Yes, also it's amazing one would want one's killers pardoned. I suppose that's why Jesus is revered by the muslims too. |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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10-21-2005 18:34
Yes, also it's amazing one would want one's killers pardoned. I suppose that's why Jesus is revered by the muslims too.  If the only retribution my enemies would be owed for their destruction is my forgiveness, I would gladly cast the first stone. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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10-21-2005 18:41
Religious people might want to consider doing a bit of cost benefit analysis before trying to convince hardcore atheists that god exists and should be worshipped in the proper manner. The time and intellectual effort spent on these hard cases is almost guaranteed to be wasted. These hard core, ardent, evangelical atheists are going to go Hell if there is a just God up above. They spend their whole lives trying to turn people away from God. Turning away from God - well, if you turn away from God, what are you turning toward? If God exists, and sends people to Hell for evil beliefs, for failing to worship and honor him, then these hardcore atheists are doomed. God's interests would be better served by ignoring these heathens, giving them as small an audience as possible for their unGodly views. The are plenty of people who are more likely to be to led on the path to righteousness and salvation than lifelong atheists. It's just good economic sense to focus one's effort on saving souls that stand a snowball's chance in Hell of being saved than it is to waste one's time trying to help lifelong preachers of atheism. What about Leave No Child Behind? I don't know about anyone else here, but I really enjoy being able to get into debates and fights without the chance of it being "won" with a burrito smashed in my face. (Yeah, that happened. nm.) My nipples are aflame with the passion of our heated intellectual discourse. _____________________
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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10-21-2005 18:47
What about Leave No Child Behind?  -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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10-21-2005 18:48
Your point atheists would change their minds if it could be proven God exists is accepted at face value by me, they may. But, your point about changing my mind by showing through science how life began doesn't hold water. Maybe you could do this instaead.. prove God doesn't exist with science. Make it proof that can't be denied. Then ask the question. That would be a fair comparison. You give atheists the benefit of the doubt, if God was to be proven(or show up one day). But for my side you want us to believe God doesn't exist if only science can show life began naturally. All nature is God to me, so anything that is done naturally is done through God, by definition. A fair point about proving that God doesn't exist - which is the current scenario. Yet, proving the negative is impossible, I think. In putting it this way, every person of every faith is beyond reproach, even the flying spaghetti monster people. What of it - what *would* be the hallmark of the True Religion, then? With regard to giving atheists the benefit of the doubt - actually, I don't. Skip God and the ghosties for a moment and consider their belief in, say, Kevn. Note that the general thrust from a skeptical viewpoint is to disbelieve in anything that isn't proven. Well, you fit the category of something 'not proven', as do I. Yet we are both addressed (so far!) as sentient, self-aware beings. Ah, but you say they are familiar with such things by virtue of their own experience? I'm not sure anyone has ever *proven* or *measured* self awareness or sentience, or ever will. It is simply accepted. At some point, every hardcore skeptic's worldview is broken down by sheer pragmatism in this way. |
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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10-21-2005 19:07
At some point, every hardcore skeptic's worldview is broken down by sheer pragmatism in this way. It's nice to think this might be the case, but history has been trending further and further in the direction of disbelief in the other person. We have lots of drugs to help that process along, too. _____________________
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-21-2005 20:40
Yes, also it's amazing one would want one's killers pardoned. I suppose that's why Jesus is revered by the muslims too. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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10-21-2005 23:49
Religious people might want to consider doing a bit of cost benefit analysis before trying to convince hardcore atheists that god exists and should be worshipped in the proper manner. The time and intellectual effort spent on these hard cases is almost guaranteed to be wasted. These hard core, ardent, evangelical atheists are going to go Hell if there is a just God up above. They spend their whole lives trying to turn people away from God. Turning away from God - well, if you turn away from God, what are you turning toward? If God exists, and sends people to Hell for evil beliefs, for failing to worship and honor him, then these hardcore atheists are doomed. God's interests would be better served by ignoring these heathens, giving them as small an audience as possible for their unGodly views. The are plenty of people who are more likely to be to led on the path to righteousness and salvation than lifelong atheists. It's just good economic sense to focus one's effort on saving souls that stand a snowball's chance in Hell of being saved than it is to waste one's time trying to help lifelong preachers of atheism. Woot! Right on. God's gonna show those atheists what they get for having contrary opinions about unproven mythology. Burn the bastards! Yay God! Merciful is he. May the best tyrant win! **and this is why, even if there was a god, I would tell him to kiss my ass before I'd so much as bend a knee in his general direction. _____________________
My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-22-2005 00:28
Jesus hung out with sinners, because there's no sense preaching to the choir Lies! He hung out with them because that's where all the action is. Christ, get your story straight. _____________________
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-22-2005 01:27
**and this is why, even if there was a god, I would tell him to kiss my ass before I'd so much as bend a knee in his general direction. And this is exactly what God says He will require and receive... Isaiah 45:23 [AMP] 23 I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear [allegiance]. Romans 14:11 [AMP] 11 For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God [acknowledge Him to His honor and to His praise]. Philippians 2:10-11 [AMP] 10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-22-2005 10:21
You are the master of the misdirected supposition. ~Ulrika~ But instead of calling me master, you can call me sweety. |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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10-22-2005 11:49
And this is exactly what God says He will require and receive... Isaiah 45:23 [AMP] 23 I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear [allegiance]. Romans 14:11 [AMP] 11 For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God [acknowledge Him to His honor and to His praise]. Philippians 2:10-11 [AMP] 10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Yes yes, I know... or else he'll burn us for eternity in a lake of fire. He's a real charmer, your god. _____________________
My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-22-2005 12:34
Yes yes, I know... or else he'll burn us for eternity in a lake of fire. He's a real charmer, your god. I am curious, why you would chose charmer? Function: verb transitive senses 1 a : to affect by or as if by magic : COMPEL b : to please, soothe, or delight by compelling attraction <charms customers with his suave manner> 2 : to endow with or as if with supernatural powers by means of charms; also : to protect by or as if by spells, charms , or supernatural influences 3 : to control (an animal) typically by charms (as the playing of music) <charm a snake> intransitive senses 1 : to practice magic and enchantment 2 : to have the effect of a charm : FASCINATE Depending on which definition you were using, He might or might not be... He does not compel anyone to follow Him, nor does He control them as robots. Some might call what He does magic, but that is a stretch since magic is man made. He certainly does please, soothe, and delight those who know and listen to Him. Why do you think even the devil feels he can communicate with Him intimately (even knowing that in the end he will be cast into that lake of fire that was created explicitly for him and his following angels)? And yet for those who hear and follow his edicts, He has something completely different in mind. Revelation 21:1-5 [AMP] 21:1 THEN I saw a new sky (heaven) and a new earth, for the former sky and the former earth had passed away (vanished), and there no longer existed any sea. [Isaiah 65:17; 66:22.] 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, all arrayed like a bride beautified and adorned for her husband; 3 Then I heard a mighty voice from the throne and I perceived its distinct words, saying, See! The abode of God is with men, and He will live (encamp, tent) among them; and they shall be His people, and God shall personally be with them and be their God. [Ezekiel 37:27.] 4 God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more, neither shall there be anguish (sorrow and mourning) nor grief nor pain any more, for the old conditions and the former order of things have passed away. [Isaiah 25:8; 35:10.] 5 And He Who is seated on the throne said, See! I make all things new. Also He said, Record this, for these sayings are faithful (accurate, incorruptible, and trustworthy) and true (genuine). [Isaiah 43:19.] But hey, this is a far cry from being on topic in the off-topic forum |
