Socio-Political and Religious Intolerance in Off-Topic

This thread is simply a protest about the closing of an intolerant thread.

I am not even religious and I can see how that thread was offensive. Not only that, in the thread "Key an SUV", the OP admits to trolling with said thread. This "Burn a Bible" one is the same - a troll, intended to elicit angry reactions from those it targets.

Personally, I don't even feel very compelled to participate in off-topic anymore, because in the past few weeks it's become a place for several self-promoted intellectuals to gang up on and bash the beliefs of others. I tried to defend one person who was being incessantly bashed a couple of weeks ago, only to find myself being beaten with that same stick.

While I mostly agree with the fundamental views of said intellectuals, I can sympathize with those whose beliefs are different, in this case because they are being harangued constantly, simply because they are beholden to different values.

It's one thing to disagree with the beliefs, it's a whole other thing to ad-hominem attack people for them.

I think it's time that off-topic was cleaned up a bit. This constant barrage of people of pounding other people into the dirt over their political and/or religious beliefs is getting out of hand. Obviously SL has many more politically left-leaning people of no faith than those who have, so why is it necessary to constantly hammer on these folks when those of no faith enjoy a huge advantage by virtue of sheer numbers?

It's not right that persons who adhere to an organized faith (which I do not) should be subjected to intolerance on a daily basis.

Perhaps an RL Socio-Political/Religion forum is in order.

While I'm in agreement with much of what you said, I just can't help but wonder why the individuals who feel particularly incensed or maligned just don't stop reading/participating in a particular thread. I have personally ceased participation in threads that have affected me in this way and been able to carry on.

Because, in the west, post WW2, we've created a societal system in which the right not to be offended is more important than the right to offend?

OK, thanks. Got it.

Nolan,

Thank you for posting this. I could not agree more. I am not a religious person. I was however, raised Catholic, and although not still a practicing Catholic, I do believe in God and I am very spiritual.

I have read through the countless threads discussing evolution, intelligent design, etc.. and I have been shocked by the sheer amount of intolerance myself. The thing that is so funny about all of this is that not one of us knows for certain where we come from. Science does not have all the answers, religion does not have all the answers, yet to see the way people are acting, unless you believe that we are here by some random cosmic activity, then you are mentally deficient. That is such utter bullshit.

I respect that there are people who don't believe in God, that believe the scientific explanations for how we came to be, etc. That is fine, I share some of those beliefs, and others I do not. What I would not do is tell someone how stupid they are for believing that a higher power is responsible for life. That is what I believe as well. If you want to try to demean my intelligence, then knock yourself out. Tolerance is a two way street, and the level of intolerance from supposedly tolerant, forward thinking people has really saddened me, and made me question my respect for those involved.

I think it's a matter of degrees Taco.

I agree with what you wrote above mind you, but it's apparent to me that it's nearly impossible to uphold an alternate viewpoint in this section without being swarmed by hornets intent on telling those who hold other views what worthless morons they are.

You're wrong. They need to lock this thread due to your opinions.

So people who hold different views than the majority have two choices then?

- To be told what moronic idiots they are for daring to offer a different view.

- To shut up and not participate.

What kind of discussions would we have, were not different views brought to the table and discussed? Ones in which everyone agrees and then pats each other on the back for agreeing?

People with different views should be able to debate here without being dragged through the mud and told that they uneducated morons.

I don't think that other thread's original post qualifies as an opinion.

Opinions are one thing, trolling incitement is another.

Funny, in my world I watch almost the same thing happen in the general forums and all but stopped participating there. A few self promoting people regulary shoulted down dissenting voices until they were banned. Of course the people doing the shouting down are never attacking, its just that the so called "victim" always brings it on themselves, by their conduct and their divisive, anti-establishment and anit-SL views. I am sure there are at least two people we could talk with at some length on the similarities here, but one of them is banned.

As far as sticking up for your persecuted freind, well stuick at it long enough and they will likely brand you an alt and atttack you personally, i mean offer well reasoned arguments belittling your spelling ability and intellectual ability. Its alol jsut a matte rof who is one which side of the debate.

Unfortunately, if you are going to debate this type of topic, then there will be quite a few people slinging mud based on your beliefs and opinions. Certainly telling people that their intelligence is sub-standard is not nice and, really, does nothing to support an argument. I don't really see a way to prevent this as I don't find that it crosses the line as far as forum guideliness indicate.

What I advocate is to stand tall, speak your mind, ignore the inflamatory posts, read the informed and cordial anti-opinion posts and go about your day.

Keep in mind, I am not religious at all, although I've studied most of the major religions of the world at some point in time, from an academic point of view.

I'm agnostic, in that I don't really know if there is a God or not.

But I always get a kick of of the crazy athiestic zealots. They're exactly the same as the crazy religious zealots. They're the other side of the crazy coin.

There's no way to KNOW that there's no God. Believing that there is no God is just as irrational as believing that there is one. There's no way to know something like that.

The people who go all nutso about any mention of God, as though the mere mention of religion somehow burns their brain, are exactly the same type of personality that freaks out about satan, and blows up abortion clinics. They're crazy zealots who are so insecure in their own beliefs that they will lash out in acts of destruction rather than be faced with anything that makes them think at all about beliefs different than their own.

When nearly all the responses to those who are not atheist evolutionists contain denigrating remarks, it's a bit difficult to ignore, and nigh on impossible for those with different views to have a meaningful conversation.

Ad Hominem attacks regarding people's level of intelligence if they hold a minority belief set are becoming more and more common.

I find that a bit odd coming from certain folks who are so quick to accuse others of logical fallacy.

Bear in mind, I lean towards the belief set that the folks who I think are getting a bit out of control embrace.

Obviously, I'm thick-skinned (as was pointed out elsewhere today ) and any response to me in that vein, doesn't bother me. I would think, though, that it would bring a certain amount of satisfaction to see the opposing viewpoint reduced to name calling rather than the application of logic to refute a theory.

Either way, I see where you're coming from.

I don't see the two situations as analogous.

One deals with RL belief sets, the other deals with not taking responsibilty for the discipline received after entering a game and attacking the game devs and existing player base for months on end. There are ways to calmly and cooly attempt to bring about change. That's all I am going to say about this, as I don't want this to get dragged off into a debate about Prokofy and his self-inflicted woes. These boards have seen enough of that, from both sides.

The person I was defending is not a friend, by the way. I don't even know them.

I think you're all using a pretty loose definition of intolerance. Since the religious participants are in disagreement with the non-religious, are they being intolerant towards the non-religious, or does it only count if you disagree with the religious? Certainly some posts have been acerbic, and some no doubt cross the line of good taste (the bible burning one being an example), but would anyone be shouting about intolerance if we were talking about a tv show that some people love and some people hate? If someone posted that all copies of Atlas Shrugged should be burned would anyone be calling it intolerant? What I'm incredibly sick of is how the politically correct are so quick to dismiss or attempt to shut down altogether any expression of religious dissent. It's an amazingly annoying and counterproductive cultural meme that does no one any good. If people's beliefs and feelings are so fragile that they can't stand up to debate then a discussion that forces them to evaluate both is a healthy thing, and they can always not participate!

It's no wonder we're still in the dark ages in so many ways.

Geeeez. Give a girl a break, I only have so many matches at any given time

Disagreement without incessant belittling of other's intelligence is possible. If not, I suppose I will have to agree with you on your dark ages comment.

Having participated in most of the recent threads on these subjects I didn't notice any incessant belittling. Some, yes, but by and large they've been intelligent and respectful debates... in fact I'd say they were above average for discussions of their type.

Because in real life they are the overwhelming majority and it feels good to reverse roles (a la Stanford Prison Experiment).

In truth I hadn't intended for this topic to be dragged there. My point really is that the situation is common to all the forums. You just provided me witha convenient example. And I agree with you, ther are ways to calmly and cooly bring about a change.

Nolan, I agree with you.

When the rhetoric is ratcheted up to the point that it becomes nonsensical, I will not participate or contribute. There is simply no point in point in joining the melee if those who have become entrenched are busily 'defending themselves.'

Though I do not agree with many who post in Off-Topic and in the General forum, I must give those individuals credit for uttering the unutterable--this, when one disagrees, is dismissed as a 'troll.' On the other hand, like-minded individuals seemingly 'ganging up on' a lone voice of dissent will do little, in the long run, to persuade.

I read what is being written because I firmly believe that these discussions *need* to happen. Where else can so many from such diverse ideological, socio-economic, and geographic backgrounds have what, obstensively, is a level playing field? Where else can Bakhtin's hetroglossia be so immediate and so relevant?

Edited to add: If we took some of this intellectual capital and invested it in understanding why the SL forums are so vitriolic and divisive regarding: 1. the tenure of G. Bush 2. religiosity/spirituality/ethics/tolerance 3. economics (in the US and abroad), perhaps we can tap into possible solutions and/or reasonable plans for change. Just a thought.

I would never call for burning Atlas Shrugged. I do, however, call for all copies of Atlas Shrugged to be mortared shut and used as bricks in a Wall of Literary and Demi-Religious Shame. Along with The Da Vinci Code....

The Ulrika666Beast... ArchFiend to forum liberals and the Christian religicorati alike.

Humor is humor, whether it's to your taste or not. Personally, I prefer the furor over keying SUV's and bringing down righteous goverments to pictures of steaming piles of crap I've seen many of you posting here.

That's just my preference, understand - and nothing to start outraged and just-slight-hypocritical threads over.