Second Life Forums Archive - ATI support petition?

Ghoti Nyak

καλλιστι

Join date: 7 Aug 2004

Posts: 2,078

12-03-2004 07:55

Shouldn't have to turn things off. Why is it a seriously graphically intense game like Everquest II (and I have it set to very high settings) can run smooth as glass without a single crash for almost a month now, yet I can't be on SL even one night without it either crashing to desktop or worse yet, just hanging, forcing me to reboot the whole computer?
Makes no sense, IMHO. LL needs to fix their client to properly talk to ATI cards.

-Ghoti

_____________________

"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Talen Morgan

Amused

Join date: 2 Apr 2004

Posts: 3,097

12-03-2004 08:06

For those of you that don't know about Omega Drivers for ATI cards go here.

http://www.omegadrivers.net/main.php

Omega drivers are tweaked for maximum performance and they are supported by ATI.

I haven't had any of the problems that others seem to have and I never crash.

Michael Martinez

Don't poke me!

Join date: 28 Jul 2004

Posts: 515

12-03-2004 09:00

Ghoti, just do a internet search, almost every site says turn off VPU, so I did not ask I just did and my crashing stopped completely, so I never asked, I just did, and I was happy..lol

Rayne Stormwind

FuNkY1.2xTrEmE

Join date: 9 Nov 2004

Posts: 44

Hrm... not gonna' stand on any side of the fence... just straddle the top Ireckon...

12-13-2004 16:57

Okay, from the standpoint of someone who has 21 years "puter experience"... yes, ATI is a well-made card with high performance. Someone made a post about having to rollback or update drivers all the time... yes, this can be partially true. However, I never usually rollback myself... I just beat on it with a hammer until the dang thing decides to cooperate. Yes, that was a bit of a mild exageration.

And yes, it does also burn me when a program, even ones other than SL, write their code to be optimized to only one specific hardware or platform. One of the many reasons I hate being "trapped in windows". Anybody that has used multi OSes *knows* Linux is far superior to Windows any day, but, everything is coded around the "windows standards". Unfortunately at times, same goes for Nvidia, many are coding around "nvidia" standards, though, I have seen some code around "ATI standards". Not saying either is particularly better... my video card track record was something like an old PCI ATI Rage Pro 3D card (old old old card), then went to a Hercules 3D-Prophet 64mb agp, now to the ATI Radeon 9200 128mb AGP, because my newer Albatron motherboard was unable to support the Hercules card due to a lack of AGP acceleration, yay (more standards baby, yeah!).

Would be nice to think the idea of "generic" still exists... and not to the extent of no options or support. That is one thing I like about Linux... when there was no specific driver written yet for my 17" PerfectFlat monitor, or for my old Hercules vid card, or even the new Radeon card... guess what, generic still worked with really good graphics (more-so in RedHat than Mandrake actually... odd, anyways). However, in "windows", unless you have the specific driver, running the current version, and all the other heaps of extras like DirectX you need, and everything else, you're up the creak without a paddle. And in this case with SL, same holds true... need to meet the coders "soecifics". Yes, there are prerequirements and minimum specs to meet, but none should be so specific as this one; if it gets to that point, computers will be in the same classification as automobiles when it comes to specifics and complexities.

PS - and yes, I'll come right out and say it... even though I love SL (it's far superior to There in my opinion, even though some have given me a HEADACHE over this), Linden Labs seem pretty cool in most their replies to my tech-specific discussions I've had with them, etc... however, I will admit, YES LL does tend to be rather finger-pointing or dismissive. In this case as seen in some posts, but also seen here: /111/07/29638/1.html

Isn't finger-pointing elementary school? What ever happened to thedays of, "if you got a problem, ya' fix it"... think of SL or any other program as a boat... you get a hole in the boat, ya' better patch it quick, cause if ya' don't... you're gonna' sink!

Elror Gullwing

Registered User

Join date: 6 Sep 2004

Posts: 306

ATI Cards

12-14-2004 08:40

Did take or have time to read all posts, but appears there is a prob with ATI drivers and Windows OS, and/or SL. I run Mac with OSX and the ATI 9800 Pro Special Edition for Mac with 256MB VRAM. Absolutely NO probs with SL. GREAT graphics, speed, performance, etc....

The prob may be due to SL being such a VRAM hog. I also run a brand new labtop, 3.4ghz pentium 4 with the Nvidia G-Force FX card. Great laptop. However, the card came with 64mb VRAM. While SL spec's that 64 VRAM is sufficient, i occasionally get choppy graphics and actual freezes while in SL on the laptop. But, not enough to cause great frustration.

Bottom line... i would recommend a minimum of 128MB VRAM cards for all you Windows based systems users if you want a 100% smooth running SL.

E.

Evangeline Suavage

Registered User

Join date: 29 Jun 2004

Posts: 70

12-14-2004 15:31

I recently upgraded to an ATI card without knowledge that they do not work well with SL, and now I'm a little bit peeved.

I can run EverQuest II on almost full maximum performance and hardly ever had a problem... a game that had been out for barely a month and a game that is developed to run the best on an nvidia card. Even then, it still utilizes the card I have. Even though I dont play EQ2 anymore, I'm still shocked at the performace problems SL has with it.

I can't even turn shadows on, god forbid. I wouldn't be able to move. Texture rendering is still very annoying.

What is the most annoying is the fact that this post is over a year old - and they still haven't fixed anything. I'm NOT going out to spend huge amounts of dollars on a brand new card just to play this game - LL really needs to look at this

Please

Tito Gomez

Mi Vida Loca

Join date: 1 Aug 2004

Posts: 921

12-14-2004 16:06

XP SP2
ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB
4.12 Drivers

I have all video settings in SL cranked up to the max. I have no problems. Visuals are very nice and smooth performance.

Only issue I experience is when I am in a very crowded club, it is impossible to even move if I have local lighting turned on. If I turn it off, I am fine.

Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 are as smooth as they can be.

On the other hand, SL on my Alienware laptop and my PC with Nvidia GEForce at work leave much to be desired. Graphics seem crude and slow in comparison.

I tend to agree with Elror Gullwing. It may be a Video RAM related issue.

If we could start a thread with a poll in order to determine if ATI issues are directly related to video ram available, we might get somewhere.

- T -

_____________________

Yashu Vindaloo

Velvet Dominant

Join date: 24 Aug 2004

Posts: 121

12-16-2004 00:12

Ok, several things...

Get the latest 4.12 drivers... they fix the problems associated with avatar vertex program.

If you have a motherboard with a VIA chipset, the frequent crashing can be fixed by disabling vpu recovery in the ATI settings and downloading the latest via 4in1 drivers from the via website. (most important that you get the latest 4in1 drivers) the ones that are on your motherboard manuifacturer's website, or the ones that came with your computer/motherboard are most likely very old versions.

If you have an Nforce chipset or an intel board I am not so sure... I suspect people with the intel chipsets don't have as much of a crashing problem to begin with.

Luke Hadlee

Registered User

Join date: 16 Dec 2004

Posts: 1

12-16-2004 21:56

its stupid to blame ATI..

What the SL team seem to be saying is that.. "The SL team is right... and every other computer game maker in the world is wrong"

Why do u people say its the ATI drivers ? I buy every single good game that comes out... none of them have problems with ATI cards... when it comes to high end cards .. usage bases are pretty much split 50/50 between Nvidia and ATI ...

I can play far far far far more advanced games... and larger mmpogz perfect at around 100fps smooth as @ 1280x1024..... yet this game runes like ass and has horrible gfx....

Its just bad Programming on the part of SL . Simple as that

Why dont they just fix it/rewrite it :/

Zonax Delorean

Registered User

Join date: 5 Jun 2004

Posts: 767

Positive experience!!!

12-20-2004 01:54

Hi!

You probably won't believe this, but my machine stopped crashing!!!
In the last few days, it just STOPPED crashing! I use an ATI 9600 XT, AthlonXP 2600+, ASUS N8X board, 1 GB ram and used to crash 2-4 times/day.
The following upgrades were made:
- Latest ATI driver install (i think 2004 nov/december version)
- SL upgrade to 1.5.10
- REPLACED! my 512 MB ram module (it was 500 MHz, not 400 MHz) so i have 2 x 512 MB now, so RAM seems perfect now

I think it might've EVEN been the jerky RAM that made SL crash... Though I can't be sure, i've changed too many things.

Well, anyway, I'm so happy not to crash anymore!!!

DoteDote Edison

Thinks Too Much

Join date: 6 Jun 2004

Posts: 790

12-20-2004 13:48

I'm knocking on the wooden desk here, but I haven't crashed since the lastest update. I have an ATI 9600 pro 128mb. Before the update, I averaged a crash or two per hour. Now that I've jinxed myself, I'm sure I'll be in that "Crash every 5 minutes" nightmare-mode when I get home tonight.

Jodie Wallace

Starving Artist

Join date: 15 Dec 2004

Posts: 7

12-22-2004 02:01

I'm using a 9700 Pro and I haven't had a single problem.

Driver ver according to Device Manager is 6.14.10.6458

I've had a few crashes but nothing that seems related to the video card or it's drivers or lack thereof.

Dunno.

ATI support petition?
Ghoti Nyak καλλιστι Join date: 7 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,078	12-03-2004 07:55 Shouldn't have to turn things off. Why is it a seriously graphically intense game like Everquest II (and I have it set to very high settings) can run smooth as glass without a single crash for almost a month now, yet I can't be on SL even one night without it either crashing to desktop or worse yet, just hanging, forcing me to reboot the whole computer? Makes no sense, IMHO. LL needs to fix their client to properly talk to ATI cards. -Ghoti _____________________ "Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
Talen Morgan Amused Join date: 2 Apr 2004 Posts: 3,097	12-03-2004 08:06 For those of you that don't know about Omega Drivers for ATI cards go here. http://www.omegadrivers.net/main.php Omega drivers are tweaked for maximum performance and they are supported by ATI. I haven't had any of the problems that others seem to have and I never crash.
Michael Martinez Don't poke me! Join date: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 515	12-03-2004 09:00 Ghoti, just do a internet search, almost every site says turn off VPU, so I did not ask I just did and my crashing stopped completely, so I never asked, I just did, and I was happy..lol
Rayne Stormwind FuNkY1.2xTrEmE Join date: 9 Nov 2004 Posts: 44	Hrm... not gonna' stand on any side of the fence... just straddle the top Ireckon... 12-13-2004 16:57 Okay, from the standpoint of someone who has 21 years "puter experience"... yes, ATI is a well-made card with high performance. Someone made a post about having to rollback or update drivers all the time... yes, this can be partially true. However, I never usually rollback myself... I just beat on it with a hammer until the dang thing decides to cooperate. Yes, that was a bit of a mild exageration. And yes, it does also burn me when a program, even ones other than SL, write their code to be optimized to only one specific hardware or platform. One of the many reasons I hate being "trapped in windows". Anybody that has used multi OSes knows Linux is far superior to Windows any day, but, everything is coded around the "windows standards". Unfortunately at times, same goes for Nvidia, many are coding around "nvidia" standards, though, I have seen some code around "ATI standards". Not saying either is particularly better... my video card track record was something like an old PCI ATI Rage Pro 3D card (old old old card), then went to a Hercules 3D-Prophet 64mb agp, now to the ATI Radeon 9200 128mb AGP, because my newer Albatron motherboard was unable to support the Hercules card due to a lack of AGP acceleration, yay (more standards baby, yeah!). Would be nice to think the idea of "generic" still exists... and not to the extent of no options or support. That is one thing I like about Linux... when there was no specific driver written yet for my 17" PerfectFlat monitor, or for my old Hercules vid card, or even the new Radeon card... guess what, generic still worked with really good graphics (more-so in RedHat than Mandrake actually... odd, anyways). However, in "windows", unless you have the specific driver, running the current version, and all the other heaps of extras like DirectX you need, and everything else, you're up the creak without a paddle. And in this case with SL, same holds true... need to meet the coders "soecifics". Yes, there are prerequirements and minimum specs to meet, but none should be so specific as this one; if it gets to that point, computers will be in the same classification as automobiles when it comes to specifics and complexities. PS - and yes, I'll come right out and say it... even though I love SL (it's far superior to There in my opinion, even though some have given me a HEADACHE over this), Linden Labs seem pretty cool in most their replies to my tech-specific discussions I've had with them, etc... however, I will admit, YES LL does tend to be rather finger-pointing or dismissive. In this case as seen in some posts, but also seen here: /111/07/29638/1.html Isn't finger-pointing elementary school? What ever happened to thedays of, "if you got a problem, ya' fix it"... think of SL or any other program as a boat... you get a hole in the boat, ya' better patch it quick, cause if ya' don't... you're gonna' sink!
Elror Gullwing Registered User Join date: 6 Sep 2004 Posts: 306	ATI Cards 12-14-2004 08:40 Did take or have time to read all posts, but appears there is a prob with ATI drivers and Windows OS, and/or SL. I run Mac with OSX and the ATI 9800 Pro Special Edition for Mac with 256MB VRAM. Absolutely NO probs with SL. GREAT graphics, speed, performance, etc.... The prob may be due to SL being such a VRAM hog. I also run a brand new labtop, 3.4ghz pentium 4 with the Nvidia G-Force FX card. Great laptop. However, the card came with 64mb VRAM. While SL spec's that 64 VRAM is sufficient, i occasionally get choppy graphics and actual freezes while in SL on the laptop. But, not enough to cause great frustration. Bottom line... i would recommend a minimum of 128MB VRAM cards for all you Windows based systems users if you want a 100% smooth running SL. E.
Evangeline Suavage Registered User Join date: 29 Jun 2004 Posts: 70	12-14-2004 15:31 I recently upgraded to an ATI card without knowledge that they do not work well with SL, and now I'm a little bit peeved. I can run EverQuest II on almost full maximum performance and hardly ever had a problem... a game that had been out for barely a month and a game that is developed to run the best on an nvidia card. Even then, it still utilizes the card I have. Even though I dont play EQ2 anymore, I'm still shocked at the performace problems SL has with it. I can't even turn shadows on, god forbid. I wouldn't be able to move. Texture rendering is still very annoying. What is the most annoying is the fact that this post is over a year old - and they still haven't fixed anything. I'm NOT going out to spend huge amounts of dollars on a brand new card just to play this game - LL really needs to look at this Please
Tito Gomez Mi Vida Loca Join date: 1 Aug 2004 Posts: 921	12-14-2004 16:06 XP SP2 ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB 4.12 Drivers I have all video settings in SL cranked up to the max. I have no problems. Visuals are very nice and smooth performance. Only issue I experience is when I am in a very crowded club, it is impossible to even move if I have local lighting turned on. If I turn it off, I am fine. Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 are as smooth as they can be. On the other hand, SL on my Alienware laptop and my PC with Nvidia GEForce at work leave much to be desired. Graphics seem crude and slow in comparison. I tend to agree with Elror Gullwing. It may be a Video RAM related issue. If we could start a thread with a poll in order to determine if ATI issues are directly related to video ram available, we might get somewhere. - T - _____________________
Yashu Vindaloo Velvet Dominant Join date: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 121	12-16-2004 00:12 Ok, several things... Get the latest 4.12 drivers... they fix the problems associated with avatar vertex program. If you have a motherboard with a VIA chipset, the frequent crashing can be fixed by disabling vpu recovery in the ATI settings and downloading the latest via 4in1 drivers from the via website. (most important that you get the latest 4in1 drivers) the ones that are on your motherboard manuifacturer's website, or the ones that came with your computer/motherboard are most likely very old versions. If you have an Nforce chipset or an intel board I am not so sure... I suspect people with the intel chipsets don't have as much of a crashing problem to begin with.
Luke Hadlee Registered User Join date: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 1	12-16-2004 21:56 its stupid to blame ATI.. What the SL team seem to be saying is that.. "The SL team is right... and every other computer game maker in the world is wrong" Why do u people say its the ATI drivers ? I buy every single good game that comes out... none of them have problems with ATI cards... when it comes to high end cards .. usage bases are pretty much split 50/50 between Nvidia and ATI ... I can play far far far far more advanced games... and larger mmpogz perfect at around 100fps smooth as @ 1280x1024..... yet this game runes like ass and has horrible gfx.... Its just bad Programming on the part of SL . Simple as that Why dont they just fix it/rewrite it :/
Zonax Delorean Registered User Join date: 5 Jun 2004 Posts: 767	Positive experience!!! 12-20-2004 01:54 Hi! You probably won't believe this, but my machine stopped crashing!!! In the last few days, it just STOPPED crashing! I use an ATI 9600 XT, AthlonXP 2600+, ASUS N8X board, 1 GB ram and used to crash 2-4 times/day. The following upgrades were made: - Latest ATI driver install (i think 2004 nov/december version) - SL upgrade to 1.5.10 - REPLACED! my 512 MB ram module (it was 500 MHz, not 400 MHz) so i have 2 x 512 MB now, so RAM seems perfect now I think it might've EVEN been the jerky RAM that made SL crash... Though I can't be sure, i've changed too many things. Well, anyway, I'm so happy not to crash anymore!!!
DoteDote Edison Thinks Too Much Join date: 6 Jun 2004 Posts: 790	12-20-2004 13:48 I'm knocking on the wooden desk here, but I haven't crashed since the lastest update. I have an ATI 9600 pro 128mb. Before the update, I averaged a crash or two per hour. Now that I've jinxed myself, I'm sure I'll be in that "Crash every 5 minutes" nightmare-mode when I get home tonight.
Jodie Wallace Starving Artist Join date: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7	12-22-2004 02:01 I'm using a 9700 Pro and I haven't had a single problem. Driver ver according to Device Manager is 6.14.10.6458 I've had a few crashes but nothing that seems related to the video card or it's drivers or lack thereof. Dunno.

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ATI support petition?