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Hmm...this is why I usually don't bother with bug reports...

Flyte Xevious
Registered User
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 27
12-10-2004 22:59
I'm frustrated and this is a vent, but I'll try to keep it civil. And yes even though this is a vent its something important Linden Lab needs to think about.

I ran into a very strange bug in Georgiana over a specific parcel (location withheld) where no matter what height I flew over it in a vehicle I would be forcibly unseated from the vehicle. I'm talking any height, even beyond 768 meters. Also there were no other scripted objects within 96 meters of me.

It was probably yet another sim bug that amplifies the effect of one of those silly "security" scripts. I had an incident a few weeks ago where a script in an adjacent sim was harassing me on my land, so having a script harass me without regard to height limit didn't seem impossible, but its definitely a bug in SL. So I filed a report. Here it is:

>I keep getting mysteriously stood up from vehicles in Georgiana, this
>time at <XXX, YYY, 846.36963> which is well beyond the 768
>meter build limit.

Short and to the point right? Well that's what I thought. Here's the reply I got today from Namewithheld Linden:

>Hi there...
>
>Apparently the vehicle script you're utilizing to fly at that height is
>not optimized to fly at that elevation. You'll need to address with the
>creator of the script since we don't support items/objects not created
>by SL.
>
>Regards,
>
>Namewithheld

So apparently my vehicle scripts need llSetVehicleFlags(VEHICLE_FLY_REALLY_HIGH|VEHICLE_PILOT_ASS_GLUED_TO_SEAT). :D

Seriously though, there's no difference in sitting in a flying vehicle at 100 meters or 1000 meters unless you're using an llSetPos based motion which is limited to 512 meters Z axis. But even then, the only way you get unseated from a vehicle is by flying above 4096 meters and that's because all objects cease to exist above that height. The only thing that will involuntarily unseat you from a vehicle below 4096 (that I know of) while keeping the vehicle intact is an llUnSit by a script that acts on your avatar when you are over land owned by the script's owner.

<VENT>

My point is this: How is Linden Lab supposed to debug Second Life if the debuggers don't know how Second Life works? I bring this up because this isn't the first time this has happened and in about July I finally just got so fed up I quit participating in the whole bug reporting thing. I think I may just go back to that after this because filing that report was pretty pointless as you can see. Several other bug reports filed around the same time as this one have either just been ignored or answered with the same kind of unhelpfulness. In July I got told some bugs weren't bugs, then oh, whoops, they are bugs after all!

</VENT>

Incidentally the problem in Georgiana is stopped. I IMed the parcel owner and asked him/her to turn down the range on his/her script and after that the problem stopped. It's a good thing too cause Georgiana's sky was getting littered.

- Flyte
Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
12-11-2004 03:01
From: Flyte Xevious
>I keep getting mysteriously stood up from vehicles in Georgiana, this
>time at <XXX, YYY, 846.36963> which is well beyond the 768
>meter build limit.

Short and to the point right? Well that's what I thought. Here's the reply I got today from Namewithheld Linden:

>Hi there...
>
>Apparently the vehicle script you're utilizing to fly at that height is
>not optimized to fly at that elevation. You'll need to address with the
>creator of the script since we don't support items/objects not created
>by SL.
I build aircraft for a living and I can tell you that this is highly improbable. I do a lot of flying at a lot of different altitudes and I can name only three things that will unseat an avatar:

- Clicking the "Stand Up" button.
- Avatar is an uninvited freeloader and the pilot has instructed the vehicle to kick them off.
- Somebody's stupid security script has decided to teleport you home without giving any advance warning and it has to unseat you to do it.

Blaming this sort of problem on such an unlikely possibility makes as much sense as pushing people out of 40-story windows on the pretense that they may be cyborgs.
Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
12-11-2004 15:22
From: Huns Valen
I build aircraft for a living and I can tell you that this is highly improbable. I do a lot of flying at a lot of different altitudes and I can name only three things that will unseat an avatar:

- Clicking the "Stand Up" button.
- Avatar is an uninvited freeloader and the pilot has instructed the vehicle to kick them off.
- Somebody's stupid security script has decided to teleport you home without giving any advance warning and it has to unseat you to do it.

Blaming this sort of problem on such an unlikely possibility makes as much sense as pushing people out of 40-story windows on the pretense that they may be cyborgs.


llUnSit works just fine on people on your land, regardless of what they're sitting on.

She's most likely telling the truth when she says she's being bumped off her craft.
_____________________
</sarcasm>
Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
12-11-2004 17:46
I'm pretty familiar with the limits of LSL & SL. I can't think of a situation where a physical vehicle would push someone off based on a height restriction (besides the global max, or being below the ground level).
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Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
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Flyte Xevious
Registered User
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 27
Update...
12-13-2004 13:31
Well the insanity continues...

Here was my reply to the original reply to the bug report (in email):

>I wrote the script, and there's no difference between flying at 100 meters or 800 meters >as far as sitting goes. Vehicles derez at above 4096. You can even build buildings far >over the 768 meter build height with the right set of tools.
>The issue is related to a bug in either SL's land security or a bug in a script that is giving >it reach beyond what it should. There was a similar incident a few weeks ago where a >security script was reaching between *sims* and it was documented by Colin, Rheya >and Nova.
>Please look further into this. If you wish to discuss script code I'm more than prepared.
>- Flyte

I nicely offered to demonstrate vehicle physics to this Namewithheld Linden in IM, who I think we have established doesn't seem to understand vehicle scripting. Keep in mind it was already established that I created the scripts the vehicles I was unseated from in Georgiana.

I got this reply:

>Namewithheld Linden: (Saved Mon Dec 13 14:25:57 2004) Actually, I'll do you one >better and can refer you to the Lindens who created the script and they can teach what >a lesson in vehicle physics is all about :-)

Frankly I'm speechless. Either this Linden is genuinely trying to help but, well, daft, or trying to cover for him/her/itself. Whatever the motivation, its completely unprofessional and doesn't inspire any confidence in me in regards to debugging the system. Could we be seeing the signs of a company growing too quickly for its own good?

If anything important happens I'll keep updating this thread, though I expect it should be over now.

- Flyte
Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
12-13-2004 13:50
I also seriously doubt that the problem is related to altitude. Did you say the problem was in Georgian? I noticed that the void sims next to the vehicle park were down this morning. Hitting that border on a vehicle (as I did earlier today) will cause you to get unseated.
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
12-13-2004 13:55
The problem can quite EASILY be attributed to altitude, if the person in question is flying near a security script at a high altitude.

Hello people. The problem is not in the vehicle script, it's in the security script someone else is using nearby.
_____________________
</sarcasm>
Flyte Xevious
Registered User
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 27
12-13-2004 16:22
I guess I wasn't good at explaining that the problem was inside Georgiana, not at the sim border, and that there were no other scripted objects within the 96 meter scan range when I got unseated for the last time. However, the bug report contained the exact coordinates of the incident as all my vehicles report to me the sim and location I leave the vehicle. It makes tracking down those stupid and abusive security script owners much easier.

Anyway, I had a live discussion with this Linden tonight. He insisted that that his response was still correct and that vehicles stop behaving correctly above 500 or 600 meters. I asked for a specific example so that I could enlighten everyone (sarcasm). He claimed to be going to get a developer, then came back and changed the subject to sim crossings. The discussions meandered for over an hour and he never once gave an example of a vehicle bug at altitudes above 500 meters. He told me I was lucky that my bug reports got any attention at all and was generally condescending, but I got a few shots in too. It really reminded me of a highschool lunchroom discussion, except for the part where he went on and on about how unappreciated the debuggers are for all they do, which reminded me of some kind of church sermon or perhaps my mother. :eek:

I put it on notecard and in a text file on my HD for posterity. :D

- Flyte
Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
12-13-2004 16:47
since I always need to guess names. 20$ goes to lee.
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From: Korg Stygian
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways


IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP! :D

Whats a twerp? :confused: