Second Life Forums Archive - Ahhh! What the heck? Modeling drift?

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-22-2003 09:19

No idea why this is happening now but when I drag an object using the *arrows* (the ones that are only supposed to move the object via one dimension)....it's drifting (jumping back and forth, really) in dimensions other than the one I'm dragging it. Restarting didn't help...my ping/bandwidth/etc all look normal. What the heck? I can't do any modeling at all with movement like this.

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

10-22-2003 10:04

I have it too! It's awful! I thought it was just me. What GFX card do you have?

_____________________

George W. Bush hates America.

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-22-2003 10:13

I'm cursed with something being called a Radeon 9500 PRO / 9700, it's basically a crappy Dell version of an ATI card. So which is it, a 9500 or a 9700? Bleh, whatever.

It doesn't seem like a hardware related issue, though, because it's not just a visual bug. When I drag stuff using the blue Z arrow, for example, I notice that it can actually CHANGE THE X COORDINATES of the object. Very annoying.

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-22-2003 10:17

Yeah that's verified based on what this stupid Dell program tells me:

Model: RADEON 9500 PRO / 9700
RAM: 128 MB

Bonecrusher Slate

Registered User

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 337

10-22-2003 10:59

Figured that I would post and back you guys up. I've noticed the drift as well, when you drag using the x-y-z axis. It's obvious not only visually, but you can track the drift on the locations details for the individual prim.

-Bone

Daemioth Sklar

Lifetime Member

Join date: 30 Jul 2003

Posts: 944

10-22-2003 10:59

I've been having the same problem. Just thought I'd voice that.
-Dae

Lordfly Digeridoo

Prim Orchestrator

Join date: 21 Jul 2003

Posts: 3,628

10-22-2003 11:08

Hi. This is very, VERY annoying for people like us that build by the numbers.

I hate reading stuff like 13.999... so annoying.

Could you fix this please, LL?

LF

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Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-22-2003 20:36

Not only is it annoying for people who like to build using the numbers (well, numbers+arrows in my case), but it makes it virtually *impossible* to do any kind of precision modelling. I sometimes do hand math calculations to figure out dimensions or positions (hell I almost resorted to using Trig once and I'm sure some day I will), but that's kinda pointless when your hand calculations are just getting randomly altered.

Most of the time I will not be satisfied with a model until it's absolutely perfect, and this makes doing that extremely difficult. I've completely given up on modeling until this is fixed, so sorry to anyone I've promised to help out with projects (Tiger, Kanker)...

Ok I'm done complaining for the night. I really need to be less verbose when I'm bitching.

Hopefully it's an easy fix...

Lola Bombay

Secular Humanist

Join date: 6 Sep 2003

Posts: 116

10-22-2003 21:42

I'm getting this problem, too..

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

10-23-2003 04:12

I also get this problem

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-23-2003 10:37

I'm getting it too... Spending more time editing positions by number or just dragging the object around with grid on than dragging the 3D arrows.

It doesn't seem to be a "drift" so much as a "jitter" for me. The prim won't wander too far off-axis, just sort of bounce around it.

Since a lot of people are getting this, has it been properly bug reported? If not, I shall.

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Lola Bombay

Secular Humanist

Join date: 6 Sep 2003

Posts: 116

10-23-2003 10:44

Please do, Tiger ^_^

Cubey Terra

Aircraft Builder

Join date: 6 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,725

10-23-2003 10:48

I saw this problem too in 1.0. I haven't had the resources to try building anything in 1.1 yet.

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-23-2003 11:47

I posted the following bug:

From: someone

When dragging objects in edit mode with the 3D arrows (so that motion is confined to one axis) the object will jitter along the other two axes. [This incorrect behavior is new in version 1.1]

When Shift-dragging the 3D arrows (to drag the object away and leave a new copy in it's old position) the new copy will sometimes be in a slightly different position along one or more of the three axes. [This incorrect behavior is more pronounced in 1.1, but sometimes occurred in previous versions.]

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-23-2003 23:14

Oooh, I sent one in myself:

From: someone

Thanks for the report. We're aware of the issue and are working ot resolve it.

Regards,

Colin Linden

Yay!

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-24-2003 08:04

Got the same response. Here's hoping that the next time I log on I get an "Update Available" message.

...I'm getting tired of cracks and sloppy joints...

EDIT: Umm... That did NOT come out right! Just say NO kids. Ick.

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

10-24-2003 08:25

This was NOT fixed in today's patch (1.1.2). I just built something in Morris, it still did the drifting. Grr.

_____________________

George W. Bush hates America.

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-24-2003 08:54

Yup. I, too, still see drift and wiggle. Can't get things to line up with grid on no matter how I try.

Okay... Let's hope NEXT time I get on I get a "Update Available" message...

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-24-2003 14:46

The next update will fix it!

It has to!

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-27-2003 13:53

Supposedly, it did.

...Haven't tested it yet though...

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

10-27-2003 21:45

Allow me to issue a possibly premature "woohoo!"

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-28-2003 07:38

It did.

I built an ironwork fence for my Halloween plot in Lime last night, and everything snapped to grid just perfectly.

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Julian Fate

80's Pop Star

Join date: 19 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,020

10-28-2003 11:22

Everything's worked fine for me since the 1.1.3 update. That was getting scary for a while with changing textures moving pieces of a linked set. O.o

BlackAdder York

Charter Member

Join date: 22 May 2003

Posts: 283

NOT fixed

10-28-2003 12:02

Quote from Release Notes:
__________________________________
Version 1.1.3
Released October 27, 2003
-------------------------
Bug fixes:

Fixed problem causing objects "jittering" and shifting during editing.
__________________________________

How can they say it's fixed? The building bugs in 1.1.3 are the worst ever. It took me nearly 4 hours in Olive last night to do a simple adjustment to my house...which should have been no more than a 30 minute job. And I was only able to partially complete the task, because some of the bugs simply can't be overcome.

Current building bugs include:
* Linking and unlinking are totally unpredictable; and very often don't work at all.

*Stretching or moving an unlinked object also shifts the objects to which it was previously linked. I saw this both with my house and my hoverboard.

*Object drift and jittering is a constant problem. This is hard to describe, but I kept having the problem of two unlinked objects which were in perfect alignment, and not physically overlapping, flashing back and forth along the common border in an alternating-overlapping-strobe effect. It was as if each wall was fighting to be on the outside of the other, visually. I presume this is what they mean by 'jittering.'

*Texture alignment is out of whack; I had two adjacent unlinked walls perfectly aligned with each other, with exactly the same size, and same texture settings; and the textures didn't line up. I had to spend ten minutes playing with offset to compensate.

_____________________

Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies.

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Julian Fate

80's Pop Star

Join date: 19 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,020

10-29-2003 14:44

For me at least the jitter is gone; I haven't had any trouble with that since 1.1.3. The only problem I see now is that sometimes when I unlink a set some of the objects disapear. If I drag a selection box over them they show up again. Relogging also makes them visible. They're still there, you just can't see them. It's the opposite of the usual ghosting problem where they aren't there but you think they are.

Ahhh! What the heck? Modeling drift?
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-22-2003 09:19 No idea why this is happening now but when I drag an object using the arrows (the ones that are only supposed to move the object via one dimension)....it's drifting (jumping back and forth, really) in dimensions other than the one I'm dragging it. Restarting didn't help...my ping/bandwidth/etc all look normal. What the heck? I can't do any modeling at all with movement like this.
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	10-22-2003 10:04 I have it too! It's awful! I thought it was just me. What GFX card do you have? _____________________ George W. Bush hates America.
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-22-2003 10:13 I'm cursed with something being called a Radeon 9500 PRO / 9700, it's basically a crappy Dell version of an ATI card. So which is it, a 9500 or a 9700? Bleh, whatever. It doesn't seem like a hardware related issue, though, because it's not just a visual bug. When I drag stuff using the blue Z arrow, for example, I notice that it can actually CHANGE THE X COORDINATES of the object. Very annoying.
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-22-2003 10:17 Yeah that's verified based on what this stupid Dell program tells me: Model: RADEON 9500 PRO / 9700 RAM: 128 MB
Bonecrusher Slate Registered User Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 337	10-22-2003 10:59 Figured that I would post and back you guys up. I've noticed the drift as well, when you drag using the x-y-z axis. It's obvious not only visually, but you can track the drift on the locations details for the individual prim. -Bone
Daemioth Sklar Lifetime Member Join date: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 944	10-22-2003 10:59 I've been having the same problem. Just thought I'd voice that. -Dae
Lordfly Digeridoo Prim Orchestrator Join date: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 3,628	10-22-2003 11:08 Hi. This is very, VERY annoying for people like us that build by the numbers. I hate reading stuff like 13.999... so annoying. Could you fix this please, LL? LF _____________________ ---- http://www.lordfly.com/ http://www.twitter.com/lordfly http://www.plurk.com/lordfly
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-22-2003 20:36 Not only is it annoying for people who like to build using the numbers (well, numbers+arrows in my case), but it makes it virtually impossible to do any kind of precision modelling. I sometimes do hand math calculations to figure out dimensions or positions (hell I almost resorted to using Trig once and I'm sure some day I will), but that's kinda pointless when your hand calculations are just getting randomly altered. Most of the time I will not be satisfied with a model until it's absolutely perfect, and this makes doing that extremely difficult. I've completely given up on modeling until this is fixed, so sorry to anyone I've promised to help out with projects (Tiger, Kanker)... Ok I'm done complaining for the night. I really need to be less verbose when I'm bitching. Hopefully it's an easy fix...
Lola Bombay Secular Humanist Join date: 6 Sep 2003 Posts: 116	10-22-2003 21:42 I'm getting this problem, too..
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	10-23-2003 04:12 I also get this problem
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-23-2003 10:37 I'm getting it too... Spending more time editing positions by number or just dragging the object around with grid on than dragging the 3D arrows. It doesn't seem to be a "drift" so much as a "jitter" for me. The prim won't wander too far off-axis, just sort of bounce around it. Since a lot of people are getting this, has it been properly bug reported? If not, I shall. _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
Lola Bombay Secular Humanist Join date: 6 Sep 2003 Posts: 116	10-23-2003 10:44 Please do, Tiger ^_^
Cubey Terra Aircraft Builder Join date: 6 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,725	10-23-2003 10:48 I saw this problem too in 1.0. I haven't had the resources to try building anything in 1.1 yet.
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-23-2003 11:47 I posted the following bug: From: someone When dragging objects in edit mode with the 3D arrows (so that motion is confined to one axis) the object will jitter along the other two axes. [This incorrect behavior is new in version 1.1] When Shift-dragging the 3D arrows (to drag the object away and leave a new copy in it's old position) the new copy will sometimes be in a slightly different position along one or more of the three axes. [This incorrect behavior is more pronounced in 1.1, but sometimes occurred in previous versions.] _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-23-2003 23:14 Oooh, I sent one in myself: From: someone Thanks for the report. We're aware of the issue and are working ot resolve it. Regards, Colin Linden Yay!
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-24-2003 08:04 Got the same response. Here's hoping that the next time I log on I get an "Update Available" message. ...I'm getting tired of cracks and sloppy joints... EDIT: Umm... That did NOT come out right! Just say NO kids. Ick. _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	10-24-2003 08:25 This was NOT fixed in today's patch (1.1.2). I just built something in Morris, it still did the drifting. Grr. _____________________ George W. Bush hates America.
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-24-2003 08:54 Yup. I, too, still see drift and wiggle. Can't get things to line up with grid on no matter how I try. Okay... Let's hope NEXT time I get on I get a "Update Available" message... _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-24-2003 14:46 The next update will fix it! It has to!
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-27-2003 13:53 Supposedly, it did. ...Haven't tested it yet though... _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	10-27-2003 21:45 Allow me to issue a possibly premature "woohoo!"
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-28-2003 07:38 It did. I built an ironwork fence for my Halloween plot in Lime last night, and everything snapped to grid just perfectly. _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
Julian Fate 80's Pop Star Join date: 19 Oct 2003 Posts: 1,020	10-28-2003 11:22 Everything's worked fine for me since the 1.1.3 update. That was getting scary for a while with changing textures moving pieces of a linked set. O.o
BlackAdder York Charter Member Join date: 22 May 2003 Posts: 283	NOT fixed 10-28-2003 12:02 Quote from Release Notes: __________________________________ Version 1.1.3 Released October 27, 2003 ------------------------- Bug fixes: Fixed problem causing objects "jittering" and shifting during editing. __________________________________ How can they say it's fixed? The building bugs in 1.1.3 are the worst ever. It took me nearly 4 hours in Olive last night to do a simple adjustment to my house...which should have been no more than a 30 minute job. And I was only able to partially complete the task, because some of the bugs simply can't be overcome. Current building bugs include: * Linking and unlinking are totally unpredictable; and very often don't work at all. Stretching or moving an unlinked object also shifts the objects to which it was previously linked. I saw this both with my house and my hoverboard. Object drift and jittering is a constant problem. This is hard to describe, but I kept having the problem of two unlinked objects which were in perfect alignment, and not physically overlapping, flashing back and forth along the common border in an alternating-overlapping-strobe effect. It was as if each wall was fighting to be on the outside of the other, visually. I presume this is what they mean by 'jittering.' *Texture alignment is out of whack; I had two adjacent unlinked walls perfectly aligned with each other, with exactly the same size, and same texture settings; and the textures didn't line up. I had to spend ten minutes playing with offset to compensate. _____________________ Avatar Central (Aqua 140, 220) - Come in and Equip yourself. Everything under the sun, plus a few Freebies. The Black Adder...Lord High Executioner, and Harbinger of the Doomed Rat
Julian Fate 80's Pop Star Join date: 19 Oct 2003 Posts: 1,020	10-29-2003 14:44 For me at least the jitter is gone; I haven't had any trouble with that since 1.1.3. The only problem I see now is that sometimes when I unlink a set some of the objects disapear. If I drag a selection box over them they show up again. Relogging also makes them visible. They're still there, you just can't see them. It's the opposite of the usual ghosting problem where they aren't there but you think they are.

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Ahhh! What the heck? Modeling drift?