Dwell Accumulation

I had my first event last night, and had over a dozen people there, most for over an hour. But I have yet to see the dwell number on my land change at all. So I have some questions...

1) What is the actual numerical impact on dwell by an av sitting on your land for 100% of its in-world time that day? I understand the amount of dwell you get is a proportional to the percentage of an av's in-world time - if they spend half their time in your land you get 1/2 their dwell for that day. But what is the base 100% value?

2) How long does it take for accumulated dwell to register for your land?

3) How often is a parcel's dwell total updated?

4) Dwell seems to be reset each week on Tuesday morning. Correct? Or is there something else going on?

5) If a resident or group owns several parcels, how is the dwell payout calculated? Are the amounts of dwell for all parcels added up and then dwell paid out on that total, or is dwell paid on the individual lower amounts?

6) Do I accumulate dwell for time I spend on my own land? On group owned land? If not, how does the time I spend on my own land affect the proportional amount of dwell paid when I visit other land - that is, if I'm on my own land for 3 hours then visit The Learning Center for a 1 hour primtionary game, does Jamie get 100% of my dwell or just 25%?

also, how does dwell get distributed among group members? is there a formula?

(btw, cory, you might get better response to this in general. or bug a liason.)

Haney Linden has a good post that answers a lot of these questions in the reference section:

/16/ff/23421/1.html#post223308

Acutally, Haney's post (which I read before I posted mine) doesn't answer any of my questions. But thanks anyway.

I expect once a day, at 3AM pacific time, like most of the other daily housekeeping tasks.


Officially, you don't accumulate dwell for time spent on your own land. In practice, I suspect that it does count in the "land info" display, but not for dwell income.

Great questions.

But where are the answers?

-Zax

Well, i'm not completely sure, but heres what I can figure out so far

Popular places list shows the True dwell

the leaders list shows who has most dwell per land size (if you have smaller land, your number will be higher on the leader list) (this also counts towards monthly bonus) (and this is how much L$ you receive per day)

all dwell is totaled up and paid out at the same time (if you have multiple parcels)


also, after reading haney's post, i think it would be possible to create some alt account, log it in for 5 minutes on your own land, then log it out. Dwell goes wayyy up.

Maybe the system needs to be revised... but then again, leaving things the way they are is usually best

hope that helps, maybe if i'm wrong then someone will help clear it up for all of us

So, in other words, for determining rank and bonus, dwell is normalized? That is, if you have 10 dwell for 5120 sqm of land you're at exactly the same rank (and bonus?) as someone who has 1 dwell for 512 sqm?

That kind of makes sense. Getting someone to stay for 5 minutes in a 512sqm plot of land is likely much more difficult that getting that same person to stay in a 5120sqm plot of land.

And if you get 30 people in the lag will be so bad no one can leave so the dwell goes up even more.

======================

So, I really don't think this is right. Owning a Sim, and previous small parcel. The dwell seems the same effect per AV visit.

Each AV has 100% dwell to give. If they spend equal time on 3 different parcels, the dwell is split between the parcels.

Can anyone veryify that these dwell numbers are normalized base don total land ownership?

It just doesn't seem to work that way from my experiences.

Walkerman....

Come visit JAVA!

I don't think he's saying the dwell numbers themselves are normalized. I think what he's saying is that the dwell used to calculate ranking and bonuses paid out is normalized, though.

However, that would seem to mean that if you had twice the land but only the same amount of visitors as your neighbor that you'd get half the bonus payment of your neighbor but you'd be paying more in monthly fees to Linden. That doesn't seem entirely fair.

Maybe some people can start posting the dwell bonus they get and how many sqm their land is and what the dwell number was at the time? (And don't count group dwell bonuses -- they are different line items on the daily activity records.) It shouldn't take too many to get a pattern going.

check the leaders board for land dwell bonuses

the numbers there are how much is paid out for the previous day

It's too bad this leader board doesn't have those numbers:
http://secondlife.com/community/leaderboard.php

Does the in game one show both amount of land, dwell count, and dwell bonus in Lindens? Without all three, it's impossible to get anything meaningful.

-Zax

Still no answers from Linden, or anyone who really knows. Bump.

After last night we had like 71 ppl for hour and over 50 for most of the night and I login to see scores today and we was total rip off big time and as far the US$ awards goes we got like $45 for last month and we all know Elite had damn good month of open of new club and that is way off.


But I been trying to just tell myself yeah dwell system is just mess up and they will fix it, but we are always getting rip off now and all of this has me so bug out just want to say hell on it and give up even trying anymore.

So much L$ and real money went into this new club for events and other things to do with club and for what? like saying here take all this money for free and run with it and we never get right score for anything and I been stuck at leader board for dwell for month now at 1 point.

Well just getting some what pissed off now over all of this so had to say something on this dwell system.

Still no raw data from anyone?

I know when I have a Dwell of 1 on 512 sqm there is no Dwell bonus. So I also know that the "Dwell count" is not the same as the "Dwell bonus" in L$.

Anyone?

dwell bonus i believe is based of how you rank against every one else, but i don't know, i don't own land.

When I asked a 'linden' if a town hall meeting of sorts could be set up for an explanation on how dwell works and how it affects us I was told...'I'm not the right linden for this question...go to secondlife.com for answers or support phone#'

Since I have yet to get a response from the .com help emails and the phone support appears to lack clear concise answers in the past, I'm not convinced that this route will be effective now.

My questions remain unanswered and I share Big Johns views... my group and myself have put a lot of time, energy, L's and real $ into events, projects and the new adventure scroll quest on Montmartre... I have set up vistitor counters up around the Island...and yet dwell often drops to 0 despite concrete numbers to the contrary?

I see dwell counts and the pretty gold thumb as a 'prize'. The big brass ring. If there is no way to attain the prize, because dwell totals keep getting wiped and not re-established, then why bother?

In my case I go on because my friends tell me I make a difference...frankly if I had to go by Linden dwell, it makes me feel small, insignificant, and unimportant. Thank god for my friends... these days they are the only thing keeping me in game...

I ask Lindens to please consider a town hall meeting explaining Dwell to all of us unimportant little peons with a need to know.

Ran another People Primtionary game yesterday, and I had 16 guests (plus group members who wouldn't count for dwell) for about an hour. And of course the parcel's dwell is unchanged, and our dwell payout is far less than expected. I know the Lindens always claim that they will make up the dwell later, but until they start answering questions about how dwell actually works including the numerical parts of it (see my original posting), there's no way to tell if there is a problem or when it may be corrected.

LINDENS, ARE YOU LISTENING? I guess not. Time to try another avenue of communication.

Once thing I have noticed is that it doesn't seem like the dwell count are updated instantly. That is, I think the dwell count for the previous day are calculated at some time over night (night PST, of course) and that is set as the dwell count for the next day. I think it's also at this time that dwell L$ is calculated and then paid out.

The MegaTower in BonnyDoon actually has something interesting that could help with figuring out any calculations by this. He's got a donation box that also registers dwell L$ on a daily basis. You can go and look at it and see the current dwell cound on the land and see what the previous day dwell L$ payment was.

The numbers have been all over the board the past few days given all the recent problems with dwell, though, which may be the source of many complaints on this thread.

Hopefully a Linden can clear up our global confusion. Otherwise we'll just have to wait for them to make the code base open source and we can find the formula ourselves.

-Zax

Had the same thing happen Last night Corey, 37 people at the knot another quiz last night an all time record for myself and Montmartre. Visitor counter list for the last 36 hours recorded 173 new visitors, not including repeat visits.

Yet our dwell never showed up in significant numbers. Very disheartening.

Unfortunately, the count doesn't really help much. It needs to have a duration. If you can prove that XX number of people stayed for over 5 minutes _and_ it was a significant portion of their time in world that day _and_ you didn't get a bump in dwell, then there might be something.

Unfortunately, the problem is that people have to stay over 5 minutes and then you only get a percentage of their dwell. So even if you had 1,000 visitors and they all stayed for 5 minutes if they spent 95 minutes elsewhere you'd only get 5% of their dwell (presumably). That assumes the 95 minutes is spent in dwell giving mode (e.g. > 5 minute stays).

What we don't know is how much dwell a single person gives a single plot of land (does size matter?) if they give out 100% of their dwell in a particular day.

The dwell on my land of 512sqm most recently was 3 and it still paid no L$ bonus. If it really is some sort of daily amount that is distributed based on ranking with dwell then there would be no way to predict the dwell L$ bonus.

Quick dwell overview of some of the questions from this thread:

- Dwell runs once per day and totals the previous 24 hours. It currently runs at 7-9am Pacific time but that can and will change.
- Each avatar gets 1 point of dwell per 24 hours to divide amoung the properties that she gives dwell to. This is 1 point whether she is online for 5 minutes or 24 hours.
- An avatar needs to spend 5 minutes in a row on parcels owned by the same person or group to trigger dwell (so lots of connected, small parcels are neither a bonus or a penalty).
- Dwell for payout is totaled per person or group, not per parcel, but parcels report individual dwell totals for the leaderboard.
- If dwell fails to run correctly in the morning, we rerun it later that day or the next. In these cases, the data was correctly captured but the processing has to be rerun.
- Dwell payout is normalized based on total dwell. So, for example, if there were only two land owners in the world the received dwell as follows:

Day User A User B
1 1 2
2 20 10

Then on day 1, B would get 2/3 of the total dwell payout and on day 2 A would get 2/3.
- Dwell payout amount is a multiple of total active users, so it goes up most every day.
- The minimum dwell payout is L$1, so after normalization folks with low dwell totals won't get a payment that day.

Hopefully that makes some stuff more clear.

Each av gets only 1 point of dwell a day? That seems unlikely considering I routinely see dwell numbers in the 100s for some of my land that I'm pretty sure doesn't have 100s of avs visiting it each day.

Thanks for the answers. It would still be nice to get answers for the other questions too.

Cory (Linden),

Thanks for the information.

Cory Bauhaus brings up a good point, though. Some places I hang out at routinely having Dwell count in the thousands (according to the land stats). However, I almost never see more than a couple of people nearby and most people are just passing through -- checking things out and then moving on. That means each person doesn't give out their entire 1 pt of dwell.

Also, if you add up the top dwell counts you end up with a rather large dwell number. According to the formula, there could never be more dwell than the number of people that logged in on the previous day.

Are the dwell numbers cumulative over a certain time period or something?

-Zax

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Dwell wipes:



Dear Kona,

You are absolutely correct; there is a serious issue with Dwell. Tech Forums are full of complaints.



I have no doubt that the Dwell was reset to 0, by the time I had noticed it was already in the 2000 range.



If Dwell is calculated between 7:30- 9:30 each day, I assume you mean PST?



This by the way is the first time someone has bothered to respond to me in three weeks of reporting this since it was brought to my attention.



After a lengthy and non satisfactory argument by Jill Linden yesterday I only have more questions?



1) How long does it take for accumulated dwell to register for your land?

2) Do I accumulate dwell for time I spend on my own land?

3) On group owned land?

4) If the land is set to group, do we get credit for group members being there?

5) How does the time I spend on my own land affect the proportional amount of dwell paid when I visit other land - that is, if I'm on my own land for 3 hours then visit The Learning Center for a 1 hour primtionary game, does Jamie get 100% of my dwell or just 25%?

6) What does it mean: 'I found no land divisions?'?



Most of these questions by the way were also asked in forums by Cory Bauhaus, and left unanswered.



Cory Linden did finally respond after some days with this info



‘‘Each avatar gets 1 point of dwell per 24 hours to divide amoung the properties that she gives dwell to. This is 1 point whether she is online for 5 minutes or 24 hours”



Our Cory responded with

‘Each av gets only 1 point of dwell a day? That seems unlikely considering I routinely see dwell numbers in the 100s for some of my land that I'm pretty sure doesn't have 100s of avs visiting it each day.”



Followed by Zax with



‘if you add up the top dwell counts you end up with a rather large dwell number. According to the formula, there could never be more dwell than the number of people that logged in on the previous day.”



Cory Lindens response merely left us questioning LL powers of reason, or ability to do math.



Jill did tell me, that when dwell wipes hit, it hits ALL of SL? She said this despite the fact that when you go to Find lists of Popular Places, and see the same 20 places or so unaffected?



When I pointed this out, Jill failed to respond.



The private islands are bugged no doubt, but this is not a private island issue if mainland sims are being hit, and Le Cadre is not? (no offense taken to the owners or groups of that Island, its one of my personal favorite areas)



Nor does this appear to be an issue with the age of a sim?



Jill insulted me with her quip that ‘when a dwell error is found’ that LL makes sure its restored and L’s disbursed.



The amount of Linden Dollars that one receives for Dwell in nominal, and hardly worth the bother at all? Nor is it the point of my being concerned. My group has put in a lot of effort and time in an attempt to add content to SL. In spite of record numbers of attendance at my events alone, the dwell was nearly zero and non existent on several days regardless of concrete visitor counter lists to the contrary.



I have set up visitor counters around the island and share these figures with the group. We had 253 unique visitors over the weekend alone (not including return visits) even though we did not run any events during that time? If this is a typical weekend for us, then why did we have so many 0 dwell days this month?



It is a slap in the face to all the people who have attempted to give SL entertainment when the ‘prize of the golden thumb’ keeps being robbed from us.



I am sending a copy of this email to group members. We look forward to your response.



My apologies if I have sounded harsh, but the large amount of bugs on the Isle we have been forced to deal with since the 1.5 has some of USfeeling quite downtrodden.



Sincerely,



xxxxxx (Mae Best)


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Subject
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Bug: dwell wipe


Discussion Thread
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Response (Kona) - 10/25/2004 04:53 PM
Hi Mae,

Thanks for you report. I just went to your land and saw no land divisions. When exactly (time of day) did you see the land plot figures dropped from 4378 to 2887? How dwell is calculated, dwell figures do not drop like that except when they drop to 0 right before the new figures for the day are calculated and recorded. Figures are calculated and posted from 7:30-9:30am every day, and only once a day. If the figures are dropping from 4000 to 2000 mid day, then something is not correct.

Regards,
kona

Customer (Mae Best) - 10/24/2004 04:57 PM
Dwell wipes continue to plauge us...went from 4378 to 2887 in four hours.


Question Reference #041024-000064
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Product: Second Life
Contact Information: [email]XXXXX@yahoo.com[/email]
Date Created: 10/24/2004 04:57 PM
Last Updated: 10/25/2004 04:53 PM
Status: Solved