A proposal for a strike: changing the way people think about events
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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01-31-2006 23:49
From: bladyblue Bommerang And how refreshing it was to have SL Content Providers come together and not waste time and divide our efforts by making statements like yours. My statement? So what you're basically saying is that those who ALREADY have all the power and money are going to get more power and money, and the little guys like me who put on a good show but don't make the "top listings" can go screw ourselves? There are two Seventies themed nightclubs in SL. One appears more or less abandoned, and mine is - according to traffic - the most popular Seventies themed nightclub in SL. Why is that any different than the most popular sex club, mall, or whatever? So what happened to my invite? Those who are already popular will of course have their own interests as motivation for their continued 'success', and for them to decide a plan which suits them and them alone is not speaking for the community as a whole. Is there anyone on that list who doesn't a) own huge amounts of land, and b) doesn't own a club or mall that offers camping chairs, dance pads, raffle balls? I seriously doubt it. Many of us who pay to play are not interested in money, merely giving a good experience to those who come. If people with huge land are only getting the visitors because they are BUYING them, and the removal of DI means they can't survive without it... then they are not viable business models because DI is basically a welfare system/government support. Everything that I own and do is payed for by me. I don't need to rely on handouts merely to exist. How many of the big places on your list can genuinely say that? Not many, I'd wager. Plus, if some of these big places were to disappear, maybe that would force people to look further afield for their entertainment in game and actually interact and enjoy, rather than sitting on a camping chair and going to bed? Just because a player has enough disposable income to own a private sim does not mean that they are a 'better' person than the newbie with their 512 sq m of land. Lewis |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
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01-31-2006 23:51
From: bladyblue Bommerang Toy, no one is speaking for you - you responded to my post and I responded to yours. Your 'me, myself and I' attitude isn't one that builds community. Do enjoy your lrge amt of land. But by a small group of those who currently get DI who are getting together to talk to LL about a replacement for DI..... aren't YOU talking for the rest of us without our consent? Lewis |
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bladyblue Bommerang
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02-01-2006 00:34
From: Lewis Nerd But by a small group of those who currently get DI who are getting together to talk to LL about a replacement for DI..... aren't YOU talking for the rest of us without our consent?
Lewis I'll quote my earlier post once again: This group is open to curent DI recipients, venue owners and other concerned residents. Since you did not attend a single meeting and I haven't published the names of the folks that attended the meeting you can't say with any accuracy if the majority of those present were DI recipients or not. We continue with our plans to create a system that won't so easily be gamed and will provide Linden support for Content Providers. You are more than welcome to attend these planning sessions and help us reach our goal. |
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bladyblue Bommerang
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02-01-2006 01:25
From: Lewis Nerd My statement?
So what you're basically saying is that those who ALREADY have all the power and money are going to get more power and money, and the little guys like me who put on a good show but don't make the "top listings" can go screw ourselves? Instead of screwing yourself you should help develop a fair support system for Content Providers. From: someone There are two Seventies themed nightclubs in SL. One appears more or less abandoned, and mine is - according to traffic - the most popular Seventies themed nightclub in SL. Why is that any different than the most popular sex club, mall, or whatever? So what happened to my invite? Your invite was posted in this thread on January 27th and is also at the bottom of every one of my posts. If you need a TP all you have to do is ask. From: someone Those who are already popular will of course have their own interests as motivation for their continued 'success', and for them to decide a plan which suits them and them alone is not speaking for the community as a whole. no one is looking to re-establish the staus quo. The Content Providers, scripters, club staff and concerned residents that make up the SL Content Providers Association have a goal to develop a Linden support sytem that will encourage any resident to become a Content Provider. From: someone Is there anyone on that list who doesn't a) own huge amounts of land, and b) doesn't own a club or mall that offers camping chairs, dance pads, raffle balls? Yes. From: someone Many of us who pay to play are not interested in money, merely giving a good experience to those who come. If people with huge land are only getting the visitors because they are BUYING them, and the removal of DI means they can't survive without it... then they are not viable business models because DI is basically a welfare system/government support. Those that provide content to SL for LL should receive support from the company the reaps the financial benefits. Subsidizing and encouraging Content Providers has been a viable buisness model to LL for years. 'Something-for-nothing' is not a viable business model. From: someone Everything that I own and do is payed for by me. I don't need to rely on handouts merely to exist. How many of the big places on your list can genuinely say that? Not many, I'd wager. Plus, if some of these big places were to disappear, maybe that would force people to look further afield for their entertainment in game and actually interact and enjoy, rather than sitting on a camping chair and going to bed? Content cannot only be provided by people like you that have large disposable incomes. The current Content Providers employ hundreds of residents. The economy would be impacted negatively if LL decided to stop supporting their Content Providers. These staff members would loose their jobs and many of the purchases that they make with their salaries would stop. The negative impact on the community and the economy would be massive. From: someone Just because a player has enough disposable income to own a private sim does not mean that they are a 'better' person than the newbie with their 512 sq m of land. And finally we agree. Just because you have a high-paying RL job or a trust fund should not be the deciding factor when a resident wants to become a Content Provider. Linden Lab's continued financial support of Content Providers is the only way for current and future Content Providers to positively impacting the economy and continue to offer diverse entertainment to SL. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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02-01-2006 07:00
From: bladyblue Bommerang Since you did not attend a single meetingQUOTE]
Ever considered that's because of the times? It's not euro-friendly, where I and a lot of others who contribute a lot to the game happen to be.
6am SLT is 2pm here when I am at work, and 6pm SLT is 2am, when I am asleep.
As you have not published anywhere your discussions for anyone who wasn't able to attend to have an input, I stand by my original comments that this is just a group of those who have their own interests at heart rather than the rest of the community.
Lewis |
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bladyblue Bommerang
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I live to accommodate you Lewis
02-01-2006 22:05
From: Lewis Nerd From: bladyblue Bommerang Since you did not attend a single meetingQUOTE]
Ever considered that's because of the times? It's not euro-friendly, where I and a lot of others who contribute a lot to the game happen to be.
6am SLT is 2pm here when I am at work, and 6pm SLT is 2am, when I am asleep.
As you have not published anywhere your discussions for anyone who wasn't able to attend to have an input, I stand by my original comments that this is just a group of those who have their own interests at heart rather than the rest of the community.
Lewis DISCUSSION AND PLANNING SESSIONS: HOW CAN LINDEN LABS CONTINUE TO SUPPORT CONTENT PROVIDERS IN SL? The SL CONTENT PROVIDERS ASSOCIATION is hosting a series of discussions and planning sessions in an effort to develop a support program to replace the overly-gamed Developer’s Incentive Program. We will identify and define each type of Content Provider in SL, discuss what truly is a event and work with scripters to develop a device that will track more than just estate traffic in order to get a real idea of the effectiveness of events and how much support can be allotted to a venue. SCRIPTERS: Please come with your ideas on how scripted devices can serve to allow Linden Labs to provide accurate levels of support to Content Providers. Paid scripting jobs will be available. Anyone that would like to become a member of the SL Content Providers Association please IM bladyblue Bommerang to receive a group invite. If you would like to be an officer of the group and hold planning sessions on your land please let me know. Meeting Times: Saturday, February 4th – 11AM and again at 8PM Meeting Times: Sunday, February 5th – 10AM and again at 5PM |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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02-01-2006 22:49
From: bladyblue Bommerang Toy, no one is speaking for you - you responded to my post and I responded to yours. Your 'me, myself and I' attitude isn't one that builds community. Do enjoy your lrge amt of land. Hmmm then Im confused about your earlier statement..... "If you openly invite residents to view your 'landscaping and water effects' then you are a Content Provider and will recieve support from the SL Content Provider Association even if you don't want it." now your telling me the exact opposite. That prervious statement is what set me off...... saying I will recieve support even if I dont want it...... No one or group has a right to speak for me, Im quite capable of doing it for myself. And yes, I will go my own way as most people do in SL.
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
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02-02-2006 00:12
So, bladyblue Bommerang...... what you're saying is that basically as a group you will define what everyone in the community wants to replace DI, whether the 99.9999999% of the community want it or not.
Your group title makes it sound official when you are in fact just a tiny group of players who happen to have got together because of a LL change that you don't like.
Anyway, I'm not talking about the 'aims' of your group, I'm talking about details of your plans, perhaps minutes of your meetings, so that those who cannot attend for whatever reason can have a chance to have an input.
However, I get the feeling that my input would not be appreciated or particularly welcome as my viewpoint appears to be quite contrary to the impression that you and your group are trying to get established - in other words, everyone can benefit rather than those with the largest disposable income.
You pick different times.... and I happen to be away at the weekend. Sadly, SL doesn't seem to want to work terribly well on a 400mhz laptop running Windows 98, and a WAP connection running at 28.8 max. Sorry.
Lewis
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bladyblue Bommerang
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02-02-2006 01:39
From: Lewis Nerd So, bladyblue Bommerang...... what you're saying is that basically as a group you will define what everyone in the community wants to replace DI, whether the 99.9999999% of the community want it or not. We are stepping forward and taking on the responsibility to do something positive about the DI debacle. I will weather any and all criticism while involved with this group. It is not right that Content Providers will be thrown out with the bath water because the system created to support them was badly planned. From: someone Your group title makes it sound official when you are in fact just a tiny group of players who happen to have got together because of a LL change that you don't like. Then we will just call it: SL PEOPLE WITH LAND WHO THROW PARTIES. Is that more un-official for you? This way we sound trivial and unneccesary. And you are more comfortable with our role in SL. But our role remains the same even if we were'nt knighted into service by Governor Linden. From: someone Anyway, I'm not talking about the 'aims' of your group, I'm talking about details of your plans, perhaps minutes of your meetings, so that those who cannot attend for whatever reason can have a chance to have an input. Because of the short time between the group forming and the deadline before DI would be revoked, I thought it best to just work in a 'think tank' atmosphere and not publish information about incomplete ideas and directions that we, in the end, chose not to go in. But, perhaps you are right and we may get some fantastic input. I don't really know where I would start that thread but I'll ask a ResMod to point me in the right direction. From: someone However, I get the feeling that my input would not be appreciated or particularly welcome as my viewpoint appears to be quite contrary to the impression that you and your group are trying to get established - in other words, everyone can benefit rather than those with the largest disposable income. Ye of little faith, Lewis. I am sure we can develop a support program that will benefit Content Providers because of their dedication to providing facilities and community activities to SL and not base it on each person's square meterage. But you are right about me not appreciating your input. You aren't trying to help develop a workable alternative - you are set on telling us to go fly a kite. And that is not productive at all. |
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Jesse Murdock
Moves You
Join date: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
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02-02-2006 10:37
From: Lewis Nerd So, bladyblue Bommerang...... what you're saying is that basically as a group you will define what everyone in the community wants to replace DI, whether the 99.9999999% of the community want it or not. It's actually not a problem with definition so much as supposition, as the actual entertainment value of content was being calculated with the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence. Developers Incentives were supposed to be paid to award those who provided attractions with entertainment value. The introduction of the camp chair broke this system because it was measured with a simple (Jesse Linden is laughing at that one I am sure lol) calculation of each individual avatar's daily allotment of traffic points or "dwell" divided by total avatar time on a particular parcel during one 24 hour period. It had no way to define the actual interactivity level of those in attendance, giving it an "Achilles Heel", which was deftly cut by a freeware prank program that moved the mouse pointer at random intervals. That is where the solution is hidden, in the problem. The only real way to measure interactivity is to monitor the activities of each individual client with a more stringent filter than simply mouse motion. Also, it could not rely on any task which was routine and repetitive to guage whether there was an actual live human on the working side of that monitor due to various operating system macro utilities that are available. It would require the sensing of many different aspects of player activity, and most of this could be done through the client itself, rather than burdening the server with even more work than it already has (crosses fingers for an expedient release of 1.9). In my estimation, Linden Labs took the easy way out by eliminating DI and soon Traffic Bonus, when the truth is the client has never really had a fool proof auto logout feature. One other idea might be to design a system that accurately senses avatars in range, and at random intervals poses a dialog box with response buttons also in random positions, requiring the player to confirm interactivity, or be ejected from the parcel. Much like some of the time clocks do already, but with more accuaracy and precision. It would have to be able to filter a list and look for new keys until it couldnt find any, a common drawback of many systems that attempt to scan large numbers of avatars in small areas using llsensor. Better yet, incorporate this feature into the client, with an option in the land controls to toggle the feature on and off. Seems that would be better for everyone involved, sparing valuable sim resources, as well as allowing only those not interested in using the system a way to opt out. From: Lewis Nerd Your group title makes it sound official when you are in fact just a tiny group of players who happen to have got together because of a LL change that you don't like. Lewis, it is not the size of any one group, or the wording of the name they choose to call themselves that defines the value of their purpose. The need for a solution to this situation has been shown by just about every single author in this thread. Regardless of what type of content it is, in this world "99.9999999%" of it is created by the residents which inhabit it, Linden Labs uses this, and yes mainly this, as a marketing tool to attract more residents. Overall the goal being to keep them as customers, and higher hopes of account upgrade and land ownership. It is not right to expect all who provide this content, to do so out of their own pocket. Amounts comparable to a large fraction of RL rent are being collected to maintain virtual land with no actual value besides that which draws people to it. Sure we can charge those who come to our land, but how will they pay? Stipend gone, Traffic Bonus Gone, DI gone, Rating Bonus gone, and now Jobs. I guess you can create stuff to sell, and still gain from those willing to spend RL money on virtual content, and fund your activities thorugh the money earned in this manner (looks at self), but the numbers of people who either will not, or cannot fund through any other means than a developer's kickback will be realized soon. I wager it is a larger percentage than many expect. Regardless, ways for new players to earn fundage will rapidly go the way of the dinosaur, and return play will decrease. Anyways, I'm out of breath, and think I pulled something vital in this vortex of confusion I call my head. Let me close with this, If you can't see the need for compensation for those who draw and keep people happy in SL, you aren't seeing the bigger picture. Take a step back and look at the World we all enjoy, and realize that the majority of it was built on this system, and the economy, and thus the world as you see it, will never be the same without it. It is not greed that garners my interest in this topic, anyone who knows me knows that my motivations are based on the love I have for a place that in all reality doesn't exist without the marvelous minds and imaginations of those who create, develop, and inhabit it.
LONG LIVE SECOND LIFE! ... ok,ok, I'll get off the soapbox now... 
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The writing's on the wall...
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bladyblue Bommerang
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02-02-2006 11:06
From: Toy LaFollette Hmmm then Im confused about your earlier statement..... "If you openly invite residents to view your 'landscaping and water effects' then you are a Content Provider and will recieve support from the SL Content Provider Association even if you don't want it."
now your telling me the exact opposite. That prervious statement is what set me off...... saying I will recieve support even if I dont want it...... No one or group has a right to speak for me, Im quite capable of doing it for myself.
And yes, I will go my own way as most people do in SL. I aim to please Toy, you seemed very content to have no affiliation with a group. And we are content to have no affiliation with you. Do have a nice day. |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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02-02-2006 11:26
From: bladyblue Bommerang I aim to please Toy, you seemed very content to have no affiliation with a group. And we are content to have no affiliation with you. Do have a nice day. You finally got it thank you !!!!
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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bladyblue Bommerang
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02-02-2006 12:03
From: Toy LaFollette You finally got it thank you !!!! OK Toy, not a problem. |
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Lewis Nerd
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Join date: 9 Oct 2005
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02-05-2006 11:34
From: Jesse Murdock
It is not right to expect all who provide this content, to do so out of their own pocket.
I do. First and foremost, the content I create is for my own enjoyment, and if others can get enjoyment out of what I provide, then all the better. I think it's rather unfair for people to come into the game and merely expect everything they want to be handed to them on a plate forever. Sure, as new players they don't know anything or how to acheive it - but if all you do is enjoy what other people are making, then I feel they are missing the point of the whole game, and maybe SL is not for you. As I obviously provide content, I look forward to receiving my compensation cheque from the FFRC shortly. Lewis |
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
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02-05-2006 16:02
From: Jesse Murdock supposition, Anyways, I'm out of breath, and think I pulled something vital in this vortex of confusion I call my head. Let me close with this, If you can't see the need for compensation for those who draw and keep people happy in SL, you aren't seeing the bigger picture. Take a step back and look at the World we all enjoy, and realize that the majority of it was built on this system, and the economy, and thus the world as you see it, will never be the same without it. It is not greed that garners my interest in this topic, anyone who knows me knows that my motivations are based on the love I have for a place that in all reality doesn't exist without the marvelous minds and imaginations of those who create, develop, and inhabit it.
Words To Life by on SECONDLIFE.
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Never Quote People that have no idea what they refering to..It give them a false feeling the need for attention...
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Jesse Murdock
Moves You
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Posts: 149
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02-05-2006 22:38
From: Lewis Nerd I do. First and foremost, the content I create is for my own enjoyment, and if others can get enjoyment out of what I provide, then all the better. I think it's rather unfair for people to come into the game and merely expect everything they want to be handed to them on a plate forever. Sure, as new players they don't know anything or how to acheive it - but if all you do is enjoy what other people are making, then I feel they are missing the point of the whole game, and maybe SL is not for you.
As I obviously provide content, I look forward to receiving my compensation cheque from the FFRC shortly.
Lewis Normally this is where I shake my head and walk away with a lopsided grin triggered by the wisdom gained over the years regarding human behavior. Some apparently can only handle their particular place in things and base their opinions on what immediately surrounds them. I do not intend this as an insult, only an observation. I implore you to reread my post with a clear mind, untethered by unnecessary need to prove a point. See Lewis, you can have things your way, in your small corner of the grid, and I do wish you the most happiness in the world there. Just try to ask yourself a few things... Why would a new player expect everything to be handed to them on a plate "forever"? Look around at all the ways to gain from the desire of others who enjoy fresh, rich, and imaginative content. This is how an individual or group eliminates the need for things to be "handed to them on a plate". What does this quality actuallty really have to do with developer support from the Guv'na? It isn't "free" stuff we are talking about here. It is "entertaining" and "quality" content that I speak of. Content that enriches and fills this virtual world in a box with something that is more attractive to the easily bored human mind than a surface patch and some one prim trees waving in the wind (although this defintiely has it's moments  Features too numerous to list, too broad in nature to categorize. It is these features that puts the LL "compensation cheque" in the pockets of every employee at Linden Labs, from the janitor to "the king" himself. Sure I guess someone could decide that enough good content that has been created, who cares if any more is developed. Those people should go look in a pond that has sat all summer long after a good hard spring runoff left it behind, landlocked and fated to turn stagnant and dry up, a parched cracked dusty spot it's only legacy. Okay a bit dramatic, to be sure... lmao, but hey it's Sunday! All joking aside though, what is it about SL that makes it great? Simply the fact that you can create something for yourself? Everyone has their own opinion on the subject I am sure, but I tend to think there's a lot more to it than that. Are you happy when Linden Labs provides an update that increases the depth of this world? Would you be happy if that came a lot less often, and involved a lot less features due to staff cutbacks made necessary after a catastrophic economic collapse, initiated by the "big five" landowners dumping all their holdings at rock bottom prices, seconded by the "middle class" one to two sim owners cutting back to more affordable holdings as a precautionary measure to wait out the outcome of the events to come. Less new players staying in game and purchasing premium accounts because they see no reason to, after all you can build in a sandbox, and since they won't be finding good paying jobs anywhere very easily, they have trouble justifying the expense from their real life budget. Speaking of which, the unemployment rate will skyrocket, and the bottom will fall out of the minimum wage, leaving less money floating around to circulate through the economy to the creators who are it's meat and potatoes. Prices will plummet, and the value of things will become a pittance. If you think about it, it will be more like monopoly money than ever before. So in my mind, taking away DI only makes the option of downgrading to a basic account and having "everything handed to you on a plate forever" all that much more attractive. Linden Labs needs the content creators, "developers", as much as Second Life does; without them it is just a no build landscape with no where to go, nothing to do, and noone new to meet, and they will be forced to do it themselvs or let it be so. I will admit this is an extremely pessimistic (which I am sooooo normally not) view of the future's many possibilities, but as they say, better to prepare for the worst than get caught with your textures unrezzed, or is that hair detached? Take Care, and if you get bored, come on down and party with me, cuz as always, i will ride it out until they flip the switch. Stay Bad. Jesse
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
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02-06-2006 00:00
The problem is that DI was a joke, only paid out to the biggest places who were already rolling in money.
If the removal of DI means that we won't see people attracted to places simply by how much money they can get by being there (such as camping chairs or money balls), then that can only be good overall IMHO.
What a lot of people don't understand is that playing this game is optional. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to achieve anything. We all have the same tools available to us, there is nothing that I or anyone else theoretically can't do, that the best builders, designers, scripters whatever can do - given the time and desire to do so.
I don't disagree that without 'content creators' the game would fall apart, as apart from the welcome area, Linden Village and infohubs LL have pretty much no developments at all on the main grid (maybe that's a separate problem that needs dealing with) - but there is so little diversity when you look at the 'popular' places. Us little people who provide things that are different from the 'sex club' mould don't get as much recognition or praise as we should be. If I had $5000 spare I could buy an island, hire the best builders and terraformers in game to make the most amazing experience - but it's not my work. When clubs merely buy poseballs and get everything else from stores, that's not effort in my book - the real people who did the work got paid, sure, but no recognition.
The FFRC seem to be entirely focused on the 'big players' in game - and whilst us 'little people' seem to be invited to attend, I just don't get the feeling that our voice would be particularly taken notice of.
Basically whatever wonderful solution you guys come up with, someone will find a way to 'game' it, and ruin it for everyone else again, just like every other thing in every other game that is designed to reward popularity - it never works.
Lewis
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Jesse Murdock
Moves You
Join date: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
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02-06-2006 23:11
Lewis, the DI list is made up of something like 100 or more people, and they were receieving amounts at the bottom of that list that was comparable to the amount their tier fee was. From what I gather from a lot of statements is that there are few of these people who will be willing to pay that tier fee out of pocket. Essentially the DI gave people a goal or "reward" that justified the risk of providing something to with their own money.
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The writing's on the wall...
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Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
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02-07-2006 08:04
From: Lewis Nerd The problem is that DI was a joke, only paid out to the biggest places who were already rolling in money.
...
The FFRC seem to be entirely focused on the 'big players' in game - and whilst us 'little people' seem to be invited to attend, I just don't get the feeling that our voice would be particularly taken notice of.
[emphasis mine] While I tend to agree with you that the DI was heavily gamed, and indeed did not live up to its intention, the generalization that the DI was only paid out to the 'biggest places who were already rolling in money' is somewhat unfair and inaccurate. The Shelter is a not-for-profit venue intended to provide new residents a positive experience upon entering Second Life. We've been supported by both Linden Labs and the Community in the past: LL has subsidised our Tier of $75/month with our average DI cheque of $72.25. The community has subsidised our event costs through donations. We were one beneficiary of the DI, and have attempted to use those funds for noble purposes. By no means are we 'Biggest' nor 'Rolling in Money'. Now that the DI is being phased out, we are dependant soley on the community for funding - and they have been most generous. I'll give you that this characterization may apply to the top 10 of the folks that received the DI. However, many of those near the bottom of the list of 100 are fairly unknown, and many are there due to a lot of hard work and effort. Additionally, the FFRC is absolutely not focused on the 'Big Players' in the game. The FFRC has generously contributed to supporting some of our Game Shows at the Shelter. Securing that funding was as simple as submitting an application, and coming before the group to explain how our event was 'Rich Content'. I don't see how anyone else - large or small - would be prohibited from doing the same thing. My point is, Lewis - while I agree with you in certain circumstances, I feel as though you're making generalizations that do not fairly apply to everyone.
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------------------ The ShelterThe Shelter is a non-profit recreation center for new residents, and supporters of new residents. Our goal is to provide a positive & supportive social environment for those looking for one in our overwhelming world.
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Barbarra Blair
Short Person
Join date: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 588
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02-07-2006 09:57
From: someone The FFRC seem to be entirely focused on the 'big players' in game - and whilst us 'little people' seem to be invited to attend, I just don't get the feeling that our voice would be particularly taken notice of. So why don't all of us little people get together and form a big, powerful, group? Kind of like the anarchists, only organized? I'll start one if anyone will join.
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--Obvious Lady
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bladyblue Bommerang
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Posts: 646
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SL Content Providers Association
02-07-2006 11:55
From: Barbarra Blair So why don't all of us little people get together and form a big, powerful, group? Kind of like the anarchists, only organized?
I'll start one if anyone will join. I thought the same thing Barbara. I formed the Second Life Content Providers Association. Unlike the FFRC, SLCPA believes that Linden Labs continues to have some responsibilities to provide financial support to their Content Providers. We are in the process of meeting to develop an alternative to the gamed dwell system. The latest development notes are here /110/a7/85889/1.htmlOur meeting dates and times are listed on the Events Board. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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02-07-2006 12:14
From: Lewis Nerd The FFRC seem to be entirely focused on the 'big players' in game - and whilst us 'little people' seem to be invited to attend, I just don't get the feeling that our voice would be particularly taken notice of. The FFRC is very much NOT focused on the 'big players'. It exists simply as a way for event hosts to get something that may help an alternative event out. It holds the smaller event hosts in high regard. Anyone is welcome to join and to attend meetings (1PM Sunday, weekly). Everyone is encouraged to share their views. The group is not exclusive. There is nothing going on behind the curtain. Chat logs and Cash Flow can be seen in the FFRC thread. There is no agenda to promote specific groups or players or their events. And, as for "rich content", it should be interpreted as diverse, not highbrow. I'm so low brow that scatological humor is me on my best behavior. Take a look at the FFRC membership, it is just a group of regular folks who cared enough to help the FFRC in trying to expand the event options. Feel free to contact me at any time. Regards, Gabe Lippmann Treasurer, FFRC
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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02-07-2006 12:20
From: bladyblue Bommerang I thought the same thing Barbara. I formed the Second Life Content Providers Association. Unlike the FFRC, SLCPA believes that Linden Labs continues to have some responsibilities to provide financial support to their Content Providers. We are in the process of meeting to develop an alternative to the gamed dwell system. I encourage you to do so, but must note that the FFRC has nothing to do with LL or its policies. We do not support or condemn LL's stance on DI. FFRC existed prior to the change in DI policy and we continue in our goal to HELP those that need it. It is NOT a politicized organization. The FFRC is a non-profit organization for the benefit of event hosts that may want it, nothing more. Please do not read any more into it.
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Patrick Playfair
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 328
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02-07-2006 12:51
From: Gabe Lippmann We're pushers, Trav! Seriously, this is just another aspect of the issue. FFRC is having a hard time GIVING MONEY AWAY. Is the 4 question application too difficult? Is the free money tainted? Are all the FFRC pleas for event hosts to grab the cash falling on deaf ears? If Gabe screams in the forest and only Furries hear him, did he really scream at all? I just don't know. (you're not pushing that hard, never heard of it)  I agree with some of the other posters regarding "changing peoples opinions" of events. You won't. Those who do not think SL-ingo or outfit contests have value are not going to change their minds. Our challenge is to make our events as interesting as possible to those who DO like them, through great music, stimulating conversation, education, a sense of community. Many of the club owners do accomplish this. I think that Travis has the right idea, although the way things are headed, I think that at some point in time, we may need to levy charges for entertainment. No one wants to be the 1st to do this, but I think that organizing entertainment providers to brainstorm on how this would best be accomplished would be more successful than organizing a strike. Actually, I think that you would find a lot of our customers who seem to find value in our events, do so because we are giving them cash, and would likely disappear as well if we were taking their cash, at least if they had other options.
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The meek shall inherit the earth (after I'm through with it).
Patrick Playfair
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Patrick Playfair
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 328
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Hmmm
02-07-2006 13:18
From: Lewis Nerd The problem is that DI was a joke, only paid out to the biggest places who were already rolling in money.
Lewis Although this does happen, it is not always the case. A year ago, I had one of the biggest venues in SL. I was not however rolling in money, I was forking it out left and right in tier costs and wages to over 50 staff members, all of whom relied on their salaries to supplement their meager stipends to enjoy their SL experience. It was becasue of changes back then regarding hosting and support (and other RL concerns) that I was forced to abandon the venture and all of those who worked there. From: Lewis Nerd If the removal of DI means that we won't see people attracted to places simply by how much money they can get by being there (such as camping chairs or money balls), then that can only be good overall IMHO.
Lewis Another blanket statement that unfairly sterotypes successful ventures. Some of those who recieve DI recieve it because of their hard work, and because people appreciate their work and spend their time at these locations. AT least it was that way when I left. I will concede that the camping chairs have had a drastic negative impact, but I am assuming that SOME of those recieving DI have NOT resorted to camping chairs. I have not been to all of them since I have been back, but I do hope that it isn't true. From: Lewis Nerd Basically whatever wonderful solution you guys come up with, someone will find a way to 'game' it, and ruin it for everyone else again, just like every other thing in every other game that is designed to reward popularity - it never works.
Lewis It is not designed to award popularity, it is the flaws in the system that allow it to be gamed that way. I tend to believe that through open-minded discussion, a working alternative to the current system, that cannot be easily gamed, can be accomplished. If not, it is certainly worth a try.
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The meek shall inherit the earth (after I'm through with it).
Patrick Playfair
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