Second Life Content Provider Association

Linden Lab provides the platform for a fee and Content Providers pay that fee AND staff salaries AND purchase equipment needed to host events on their land. Traditionally, Linden Labs has subsidized their Content Providers each month to off-set their costs of producing events on a regular basis.

Second Life Content Providers need to get together and develop an alternate to the current DI program that is in place. Providing daily content to SL should not only be affordbable to those with large disposable monthly incomes. A entry-fee only system is not a plausible alternative to dwell payments and DI. Affordable entry fees is a option that all land owners can consider if they wish but LL continues to have some responsibility to assist those that provide content for SL.

I believe that allowing the Lindens to end Developer Incentives is wrong. Linden Labs does not advertise a vast desert. They advertise CONTENT developed by us. When a person logs onto the Second Life web page they see builds and activities designed by the residents. Linden Labs use to know that Content Providers needed to be receive financial assistance and incentives for their efforts. We must mobilize now before it's too late. Without DI many venues with staff and large tier fees will have to close up shop. Many players that work for these venues will loose their jobs. The end of DI will have a adverse effect on our economy. We must mobilize to fix the DI problem and save SL Content and our economy.

I have formed the group:"SL CONTENT PROVIDERS ASSOCIATION". To receive information about the planning group's activities please IM bladyblue Bommerang for a invite to this group. We need many if the top DI recipients to be represented in this group and all other concerned residents. Any Content Provider/Venue Owner that wants to be an officer in this group please contact me. Officers will work to draft proposals and lead discussion groups on their land.

The Second Life Content Provider Association is made up of venue owners, game developers, venue staff and concerned citizens.

SI CONTENT PROVIDERS ASSOCIATION – CONTENT PROVIDER PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT

A) At our first meeting we shared information about the expenses we incur to run daily events and the adverse effects the end of Developer Incentives would have on Content Providers, the residents we employ and the overall economy.

B) We looked at the four questions asks of us about our intentions and program design. We agreed to answer those questions after our next meeting. The 4 questions are listed below:

1. What are the goals of the group in terms of level of support. Are they just hoping to meet costs? Or are there those among the group that are looking for professionalization (to make a living doing events in SL)?

2. Is the group willing to restructure their individual venues so that they don't need money giveaways to attract residents? What kinds of events content can be provided that is rich enough (as in immersive, fun, not hoity-toity) to bring people in without cash giveaways?

3. Would the group be interested in other kinds of incentives such as tier reduction benefits (like 10% more land for the tier you pay) for running a venue? If so, what kinds of benefits would work?

4. If the traffic-at-all-costs model is the problem, what is the solution? Would event venues be willing to apply for events funding for each event? If the program is not based on traffic (traffic-based models led to the problem) what would it be based on?

C) We read the program design suggestions submitted by two Content Providers. Aspects of these programs sparked conversations concerning DI program overhaul and the definition of a Content Provider. These DI program suggestions are posted here:





D) We began discussion about designing a program to replace DI as it is now. We spoke about a script that tracked several aspects of event delivery and the expenses venue owners incurred. It was suggested that these statistics could be used by the Lindens to calculate the level of financial support for Content Providers. We decided to work with scripters to create a tracking program and design a program that is based on data collected from such a program.

NEXT MEETING TO DO LIST:

1 Define the kind of Content Providers that are in SL now. What are the future Content Providers in SL going to be like?

2. What could be measured by scripts that would help Linden Labs accurately measure the level of financial support Content Providers should receive?

3. Timeline our program development.

4. Give ‘homework’ to members.

5. Decide on next meeting date, time and location.

There is a foundation that has some goals similar -- though not the same -- as yours.

See the FFRC topic

Our goals:

We will work as a team to develop a new Developer Incentive program and present options to the Lindens.

We have been having meetings in SL with content providers, scripters and residents. We have been developing a Content Provider program that would allow moderators to check on the status of Content Providers, address the camping issue and to encourage new players to become Content Providers.

Our ideas:

Content providers will apply to become a participant in the Content Provider Program. There will be different categories of Content Providers and a diferent rate of financial support for each type. Suggested Content Provider types are: Venue Owners (Daily Content Providers), Landlords(those that own large parcels of land that are developed into residential communities), Developers(Those that build public attractions such as amusement parks and public gaming areas) and Special Event Content Providers(This Group applies for temporary Content Provider Status to receive financial support for short-term Content - such as music festivals and temporary builds). If you feel there should be other categories of Content providers please respond to this thread.

Once these groups apply for Content Provider status they will be visited by a volunteer to make sure that they are not using camping chairs and that their parcel of land meets the minimum requirements. Long-term Content providers must update their status every three months.

Those Content Providers that figure out ways to game the sytem will have their parcels removed from the Content Provider Program and they will not have access to the financial support provided.

Lindens Labs provides a pool of funds to be used to off-set costs of content providers and provide incentive for residents to become content providers. Content Providers will receive a device that they can use to store event data and automatically send data to Content Provider Fund. Once data is received by fund the Content provider will receive funds automatically. One option suggested for such a device: pre-program a split of funds distributions for all people involved in developing the event. Builders that attended the planning sessions liked this option. They would receive financial incentive for building unique attractions for venues and the venue owner would have less expenses to cover for the build. (Scripters please contact bladyblue Bommerang with ideas on developing this device).


A Content Provider System can measure the following to create a fair distribution of funds(Just ideas)
*Number of participants
*How long each participant attended the event
*Size of parcel event was held on
*The amount of votes the parcel has received in the last three months.
*How much money in entry fees to the event the was collected.
Each person attending the event will receive a attachment that can be used to measure their level of participation (like the bracelet the casinos use).

To stop folks from gaming the system by parking their avatar we have thouht up a few intercative devices that participants must interact with during a event to continue to be counted as a active event participant. Those that are no longer counted would not be ejected from the event. They will receive a pop up box tha tells them that hey are no longer being counted towrd teh Conetnt Provider's participation totals. Some devices that can be used are:

* Event Vote Box
* Chat Detector
* Pop up Box
* HUD attachment

Please realize these are ideas and constructive criticisms and comments are welcome. We realize the positives and negatives of these devices. We appreciate any feedback and new ideas.
- Event Vote Box: A vote box you can turn on for events and have people click the vote box in order to count participants in the event.
- Chat Detector: Periodically check chat for a certain time limit every n minutes. ( May cause lag detecting chat for too long )
- Pop up Box: Have a vote box that randomly appears in a defined field (in a 10x10 area or something) every N minutes (30 minutes or an hour would be good) to prevent autoclick systems from voting.
- HUD attachment: Have contestants and visiters wear a HUD attachment to track their activity in the area to ensure no camping. (May have trouble getting everyone to wear it, possible inspirations would be to not let people not wearing one win or enter the event) *Give each person a bracelet to wear keyed to the specific event and a different color to go with each event (in order to tell who updated to the event). The criteria for the event is stored in the bracelet and each event would be offered a different update system for the bracelet in order to change the color and event key. Also possibly a way to give an area of what people to define as an active participant and tracks active times listen in to their AV key only to reduce lag. Bracelet can be delived automatically when landing on the land if one is not worn already. An automatic titler may also be implimented with different colors on order to not interfere with AVs as a bracelet may. (If the options were a HUD attachment it would not require to listen in on channels for typing instead have to click a button periodically or something (annoying huh? Not so much if set to press the button every 30 minutes or hourly though)

We will continue to meet to develop this sytem further. Please check event listings for meeting times and locations.

If you have any suggestions or ideas to add please let me know,

bladyblue Bommerang.

Sorry for not making this weekend's meeting - had to work the night before and slept late.

From the look of it, Odds & Ends won't meet the criteria for a "content provider" based on a number of items mentioned. First off, we do use camping chairs - both to give people some extra cash and to compete in the current system. Even if the traffic and dwell go away, we still plan on having some - even if we no longer get anything for them (as it is, we pay out FAR more than we get for any "dwell" or anything else - it's just something we enjoy doing). Also since we are not in the "hold nightly event" category, the reward system mentioned wouldn't benefit us anyway - instead of daily or hourly events, we have people on-site almost 24 hours per day helping out. Our "content" contribution ranges from re-packaging items into categories that make sense (removing duplicates, etc along the way) to providing a large public area for newbies to see what SL has to offer, developing new toys for SL residents to use, having a place where people can just "hang out".. none of which are "events" in themselves, but IMO shouldn't disqualify us from receiving bonus.

The other areas that wouldn't make sense for us would include all of the "event" oriented ideas being thrown out. Our desire to have a great place for newbies to see what SL has to offer wouldn't count for anything since there would be no "timed event" going on all day, no way to really get newbies to wear attachments, know to vote or a set "number of participants". This has been crafted to ONLY help those people who host events for experienced SL users with preset start/stop times.

As for the methods offered for deciding which events qualify...
- Number of participants - This is what we ALREADY HAVE, I thought we were moving away from dwell-based ratings?
- How long the person is there - This is what we ALREADY HAVE, I thought we were moving away from dwell-based ratings?
- Size of parcel - no real objection, but keep in mind we own most of Telea.
- Voting - might be worth testing
- Money for entry fees would stop any of the events we host from qualifying. We don't charge for people to party with us, attend a class or do anything else on our land. We consider it a mostly public area and just have many things for the public to use.

I think the ideas so far are flawed (will post a counter-proposal below)
- Event vote box - how would areas that don't host timed events benefit?
- Chat detector - I have programs that can paste chat at random intervals to SL which renders this useless
- pop-up box - motion detect/click would beat this
- HUD - what exactly would this detect? a HUD can't do anything that any normal scripted item can't do - it can't tell if the person is at the keyboard, if SL is the active program running, or much of anything else - if this is the popup idea, the motion detect/click would defeat it again.

The only REAL solution for this in my opinion is to actually have a Linden drop by and evaluate the different locations. If the idea is to financially reward those who contribute substance to Second Life, they should be the ones to send someone around - both to evaluate the location overall and to evaluate events. Criteria they could evaluate on should be less of the "did someone click" and more of the "does this location provide things for the average SL resident to enjoy", "does this location have a staff that actually interacts with people to make the experience enjoyable?" and similar criteria. I realize this requires a Linden to visit the land or events (or better yet perhaps an anonymous AV) to verify that things are going as planned, but the reality is that technical solutions are not going to be able to judge "content" and that's what this was supposed to be about. We're trying to get away from "playing numbers" or "giving people something new to automate".

Keep in mind that some areas that SHOULD benefit from this are places where people just create/develop and show off, not ONLY places with "timed events". There are a number of museums and other areas made for fun around SL which should be recognized which will never have the "traffic" of a DJ'd event, places that are meant to be looked around which may not have a good place to put a "vote" station, etc.. but those areas should not be discounted from having their contribution noticed and rewarded.

Thank you for posting and letting us know your opinion on our initial plan. Yor place could fall under another category (meeting place) with a different set of eligibility and participation rules. The camping chairs have managed to beacome the main reason the Lindens say that they are attempting to remove DI. Its hard to justify them. There may be other ways to help noobies receive cash without resorting to Camping.


Agreed. As our community grows, we need a much more sophisticated system put in place to make sure we recognize, reward and encourage all types of content providers. Once we establish a 'meeting place' category, we can then develop the DI award program that would best serve that group.


These are our first thoughts on a system. Thank you for critiqing them and sending us 'back to the drawing board'. We are publishing our ideas here to encourage public particiaption in the development of a new Content Provider support system.


Linden Labs recruits residents everyday to help with community programs (greeters, resmods, mentors, intructors) A Linden supervised group of Content Provider Coordinators could definitely work. There is not enough Lindens to effectively visit all applicants who want to benefit from the program.


Content can only be judged by the residents. A system that allows the residents to say what they like (without bribing them) can definitely be developed and put in place within our lifetime.


Agreed. A application, acceptance and support sytem for the content provider that brings a 'Attraction' to the resident of SL will also be developed by this group and shared with the community and the Lindens.

For groups - have any other types of groups been mentioned? (besides "meeting place" or "event holders" - and would all groups be in for the same type of rewards (split evenly across groups) or would some groups "be worth more" than others?

Regarding "Content can only be judged by residents" - it's a difficult path to walk down. Residents are good at going to the same place over and over, getting hooked in with a group they like and can be inflouenced with cash. The reason I mention having a Linden based group do the content judging, I think it would be in their best interest to decide what is a real draw for people to enjoy SL. (I don't believe them to be unbiased either - but they could monitor far better from behind the scenes than any resident could to see what is happening at a location/event/etc as far as "real activity" - there would be the temptation to side with whoever was filling their pockets with $ as well, but for the moment I trust them)

Methods used to allow people to "vote" for their favorite area is going to be a tricky item as well. Web votes are out, it seems most people don't really use the forums or website as much as they could - so would be the same people voting consistantly. Anything that users do can be automated or defeated, unfortunately. I've only been around since August and only had a club a fraction of that time, yet figuring out the dwell system took only a bit of trial an error and now we're in the popular places daily. Inactivity timers, getting people to sit on land, watching chat output, telling people to vote, etc can all be defeated. If clicking the vote machine were important, all I would need to do is hold a large daily raffle and make a door to the club only open after someone clicks the vote box as one example... So far I've been trying to think of ways that would be "simple" for the user yet hard to defeat.. and can't think of any.

Another item to bring up is abuse of the system by others participating. Would a venue be disqualified for spamming other locations? Would it be temporary or long-term? (if so, would that be staff only who are seen as "representing" the establishment?) I felt it's necessary to open this can of worms since I banned and reported a participant in this group for advertising once already and could see this system encouraging more of it.

Regarding camping chairs - I find the Lindens comment about DI removed thanks to them as an excuse. As I understand it, we are currently putting more $US into SL than anyone has gotten for winning DI (not inlcuding tier & monthly).

[Btw, should probably mention this thread to the group - see if others want to comment outside of the meetings - this weekend is working out to be as bad as last for me finding online time to attend meetings, but we seem to be doing well with discussion here.]

Those are all valid points and yes I do agree that more can be accomplished if we utilize this forum for discussion . I'm usually so busy that I don't even realize when the meetings are so sorry but missed some . I'm curious to know whether or not anyone has heard from an actual Linden regarding possible alternatives being looked at seriously . We're growing at closer to the cutoff date and then I am starting to sense an air of anticipation and suspense . I don't know maybe it's just me but it seems as if the forums are growing quiet .

The problem is that LL is giving free accounts to people encouraging them to explore content, that the content providers offer. Since LL is taking away the DI that used to at least compensate many content providers, LL is expecting content providers to get paid for providing content to people who have no money to pay for it.

LL can not provide free content to people by way of free accounts and then expect content providers to survive servicing all destitute new players who are broke with fun, exciting, stimulating content that costs a lot of time and money to provide. The new players can not pay for the content they are exploring at LL's free invitation. Content providers are unfairly being forced to be the collection agencies subsidizing LL's free giveaways. Thsi is not fair, LL should pay content providers for providing things for new players to do, since this benefits LL financially.

Someone please answer how club owners can make money from free account players who have no money and themselves want jobs?

Lovepeace

When I came from TSO I had oodles of cash in SL terms (before I got hooked on big tier of course). This is because I went from paying $30 a month (to cover 9 accounts so I could explore all the cities) to $10 a month. Thus, I had $20 a month to spend on Linden.

If someone has come from a world where that person paid $10-100 a month in gaming fees (as many do) to a world where that person pays $0, why wouldn't that person invest in buying linden to have fun with? Why do we assume the person is dead broke? And, more telling yet, perhaps, why do people decide to be dead broke in SL when they would drop $10-100/month in other worlds?

I'm perceiving resistance here. What do you guys think?

We already had this coversation Persephone. The FFRC's agenda includes a plan to collect and distribute funds to encourage folks to create content that the FFRC enjoys. The FFRC is also spending time and money to create a box office that you suggest Content Providers use to off-set costs in lieu of suppport from Linden Labs.

Your open-source box office will be well-received by the community and Content Providers. But, as I responded to you in another thread, charging players entry fees will in no way replace the support Linden Labs is obligated to provide to its Content Providers.

Linden Labs has traditionally supported the Content Providers because they knew that those that supply content to SL should be compensated for their effort (effort and tier costs, staffing costs and purchasing event devices). LL knew that if they wanted to encourage players to create attractions, event venues and meeting places that they need to make it worth our while.

I feel that your group can meet its goals without posting here and suggesting that SL Content Providers need to continue on without financial support from LL. You are suggesting that we close off our lands and start charging to create our own 'financial incentive'. And I'm telling you we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we did such a fool-hearty thing. You are not taking into account the negative impact on the economy and the community when several venues and attractions can no longer afford to keep staff employed. This will lead to leaving several players that rent land and spend money in-game without any means to do so. This thread is for folks that want to discuss viable plans to create a Linden supported replacement to the DI system. Your fee-based support system wil not be a successful replacement to DI.

You continue to suggest that Linden Labs has no obligation to provide support to its Content Ptroviders. I heard you the first three times. We will continue in our efforts to prove otherwise.

I posted a dicussion in events this morning and got some good suggestions for groups from the residenst that attended. Those groups are Daily Venue Owners, Attractions, Game Developer, Special Events and Festivals, Residential Landlords, Commercial Landlords and Meeting Places. I had suggested that landlords would recieve less of the reward because they are charging rents. EXAMPLE: I have a dance club, a shopping plaza and a waterfront cafe. I can apply for the Content Provider program Incentive for each parcel of land under different categories. I can also use a large piece of land Im not using everyday for a three day art festival and apply for that short-term Content Provider Incentive program for that parcel of land. A Game Developer can buy, borrow or rent land and have a short term or permamnet site for folks to play his/her game. Please post anymore ideas of groups that you can think of.


I still believe that there are not enough Lindens available to effectively make this happen. Some resident involvement will have to be accepted in this area. Accomplishing this as a committee and bringing results back to the group before they are accepted is one way to make sure that the resident volunteers arent helping out their buddies instead of effectively gathering accurate information.


Could this be defeated by allowing one unique vote per day per person? If folks knew they had only one vote to use they would use it wisely.


This is where the volunteer Content Provider Coordinators come in. This sort of activity would be deemed as abuse of the system and would, hopefully be reported to the committe. The Content provider would need to wait some time (3 months?) before re-applying for Content Provider status once again.


I agree. The Lindens latched onto a issue that divided the community and used it completely abandon SL Content Providers. A proper course of action would have been one that included community meetings and plans to rectify the problem without negatively impacting the community.

I'm making that call today Jesse. I am hoping for a Thursday Meeting with a Linden from the Community Team. Wil post more information on that.

Ok I am confused.. People are throwing around the words Content Providers.

Is this education, events, objects or what?
Outside of teaching, I never knew LL compensated any type of content.

I know that people who are wrapped up in a concept know what they are talking about, but it might be good to follow the format of journals in defining a term that is not understood by the general public in the first lines.

Content Provider is the term that is used to loosely define someone who developes entertaining "stuff" in SL. That would include those categories as well as many others. Up till now, since the very beginning of SL, Linden Labs has provided a "real life" monetary cash award to those that were deemed by them to be the top developers in SL. This award was based on a calculation of a daily allotment of points given to each avatar divided by the amount of time each avatar spent on each particular parcel in a 24 hour period. They called this "traffic". It was supposed to measure how entertaining a certain place or attraction was. Unfortunately it was destroyed by the abuse of the "camp chair" which created large groups of inactive and unsocial avatars, which is not at all why the Linden's had offered the award to begin with. They did so to promote socialization and community, to motivate residents to create content that would draw and keep new players as well as entertain and keep the old players.

It is my hope more take notice and particiapte in developing an alternate system, for what one person see's another does not. The more information found, the better the system. Currenty the way things are going with losing the DI, it will in my opinion, effect the whole sl ecomony in the long run. Many of thses places, that run events, with out the incentives to do so, or help to keep going will close. If that happens, not only will there be not many jobs such as now, but also those new, will have no reason to be on sl, if these events are gone that use to help those new aquiring lindens. It can, and will effect the whole economy, for if others don't have the funds to buy, then there is no reason to bulid or sell items.

Um, ok sometimes I talk as a representative of the FFRC. When I'm doing that I'll let you know. Mostly, I'm just Perse. Just me. human being and events manager. I am a professional events manager. I went to school for it. But this has NOTHING to do with my question. My question was, what do people do with their money? If they are willing to pay for currency in other worlds, and ALSO often pay a fee for even being there, why wouldn't they see it as a good deal to just buy a few thousand linden a month for the same money they spend without a thought in another world?

I ask this of this group because many of the people reading this thread are new players saying their jobs will be lost, and I am interested in hearing this point of view. This has nothing to do with the FFRC. As I also mentioned a few times, I run events and am curious how people feel about this. I run events several times a week and am in both your definition and the definition of others, one of those content providers you are interested in helping.

What do people think? why does someone not buy money in SL? Are there major barriers there that I'm not understanding?

To other posters: I'm trying to understand here. Folks have said there is no money, but in other worlds one doesn't get free money. Why is it different here? Would people be so resistant to take their $10 they didn't pay for premium membership and get $2500 Linden instead? Why does this not work for some folks? I'd like to understand the situation as best as I can. Why would someone rather work 12 hours a week for $1000L than spend $4 USD on the same $1000L? My question is genuine, not rhetorical. I have noticed this is true of people. Why is that?

To bladyblue: You're TOTALLY misquoting me by the way by saying that I think LL has no obligation to support experiential content providers. In fact, more than 100 posts of mine say otherwise. I resent it when people misrepresent me. Please don't. I don't misrepresent you; don't do it to me, please. Unless you have read my posts, don't presume to know my opinion on things, particularly when your assumptions are 180 degrees off.

You have represented yourself by making these comments:



Criticism for the DI system, support for LL's decision to end financial incentives for Content Providers and suggestions for Content Providers to get financial support elsewhere than Linden Labs. All of which is fine and dandy - but of no use to the goals of this group. We are looking for suggestions about creating a new LL funded DI system. Anything else is off-topic.

Just because I'm against DI (this is me, btw, not an organization. FFRC takes no political stances whatsoever) doesn't mean I'm against incenting events and community in SL. It is fair that if someone misrepresents me that I respond to that misrepresentation. It is also fair that someone reading an argument might question the basis for that argument. One of the posters (or more) in this thread asserted that there was no money, but I questioned that assertion because there was an angle that wasn't being considered. None of that is hijacking the thread. It is responding thoughtfully to commentary.

For the record, my stance is that the DI system wasn't sustainable or working in the way it was intended. I've come around on this. Camping chairs and other pay-me-to-be-here devices changed my mind. I used to think DI wasn't such a bad system before then, and defended it often. Sadly, things sometimes get broken that worked well in other circumstances.

Long before DI there was event funding. I was on record supporting that. Not only did I talk about it but I organized, begged for votes, etc. I say this not to say how great I am but to counter a misrepresentation bladyblue has made of me. I have been on record a LOT on my support of events funding. I believe that Linden Labs should continue to support in world experiential content with cultural trust funding, with tier relief for public venues, and with the tools events makers and venues need by improving the platform. I believe in a public/private partnership approach to supporting arts and culture as well. This is why I joined the FFRC. Be aware tho, please do not mishear, the FFRC funds diversity and creativity of all kinds. Not high brow stuff particularly or low brow stuff particularly but mostly whomever comes to ask us who makes a good case for his or her or their project as making SL more fun, more lively, more diverse, and more interesting.
Gabe said this best in another thread.

I think that people will come to events even if they are asked to pay. But this will require a few things: the ability to do this, and the ability of event hosts to provide compelling content. I am confident about this because, though we give prizes, the spa doesn't do money giveaways and we still have decent traffic. Also, a proposal was put forward when this announcement was first made. My VIPs (over 130) were asked if they would be willing to pay $25 to attend a spa event. I bit my lip after asking. I was worried, sure that it was a mistake to have put it to a vote. After all, most of them had never even heard of DI, let alone known that DI was partly what supported our efforts to entertain them. Know what though?

The proposal passed. With a majority! Do you know how many would have had to have said yes? quite a few. Do you know how infrequently I cull out inactive players from our VIP list? Only twice in a year.

I think that there is a place for Linden incentives for events and experiential content providers. I also think that the public is willing to and should be paying for benefits it gets or that sponsors / advertisers can be brought in to pay where the public isn't willing or able to. There are valuable things in SL that cannot be measured in numbers like traffic, though. or even box office numbers. or money. Community happens in many places that need sponsorships and support to exist. I believe this is worth protecting. I am glad to see you getting together with folks to speak up for what you want bladyblue.

I guess what I'd really like is for that to happen with courtesy and respect for other people and groups with similar aims. I've been clear a number of times that i'm not against LL funding or providing incentives for content providers in SL. LL provides physical content makers with incentives by giving free vendor and mall space. It provides spaces for event makers too, but the issue is that there is no way to get funds from that unless one has a box office. I have great hope that if enough people try enough ways of addressing the issue of rewarding experiential content in SL, we'll solve the problem.

OK. sorry for the tome, but I hate to be misrepresented. I think anyone would.

Cheers and happy valentines day everyone.

Persephone this is a thread for Second Life Content Providers to discuss developing a Linden-supported alternatives to the DI program. I don't go onto your FFRC thread and start conversations about my group's goals - please show the same amount of respect.

I thought you meant the thread to discuss the ideas of the association, not to be a sort of archive of organizational efforts. Very well, then, I shall not post ideas in this thread. I did not intend to in any way disrupt your thread but rather to question (as a person, not as an organization) some of the ideas that people had stated. I won't post here anymore now that I realize that you intend it to be an organizational archive. Cheers and good luck.

Blady

I know I have said this to you directly but in reviewing your comments to others specifically to Pers. I have to say this here. LL is not obliged or obligated to give you anything except the land you pay for and the oppertunity to design and create and innovate. if you cant find a way to make money in SL by what you do then you are nor filling your end of the bargain. The open source box office makes sense what you propose is just like the telehub buy back its welfare for the whiney rich who recieve the DI. Iam sad to see DI go but all your big recipients with your damn camping chairs killed it. Now poor Blady who to my knowledge had no chairs choose to whine and say give us money heres why rather then innovate. Blady you are better then that. Put your enegy into making the Post DI economy work

How can anyone not understand the basics here?
Plain and simple, we play SL, we create, wether it is thru building, scripting, holding group events for entertainment, or educational gatherings. LL offers free accounts, we all had one, we all still have some hidden alt that is one, this account by design of LL gets no weekly stipen, nothing just the shirt on your back with your chicken walk. Remember back everyone, when you first joined SL, you roamed, you saw, you read, you were scared crap and awed at the same time. You DID NOT GO AND BUY LINDENS! You had no idea what you where doing, and if you were going to stay in this world. You enjoyed, took in, and devoured the GAME CONTENT. YES CONTENT! That what is built by others, that is what is created for your enjoyment, that which is planned stagged and held for the entertainment of others. With LL disbanning DI, and with no easy solution in sight, with no measurement anyone can agree upon. (I have actually spent many sleepless night debating this!) If not for dwell (yes even with camping chairs), what other method could be used as a gauge. Sales? nope i can set my little wooden box for sale at 5k and sell them to my alt and send the funds back. OUT! Design? I can get all my friends to vote for ME!! YES LETS HAVE A POPULARITY CONTEST! Entertainment Value! ok I hate Tringo (Actually I SUCK at Tringo!) so all tringo's get a no vote. FAIR to all the tringo events? NOO
LL has a responsability and a commitment to every single person playing SL, to supply us with the wonderous world they advertise to give us to try this wonderful place. AND WHO MAKES THIS PLACE SOOOOO WONDERFUL? RESIDENT CONTENT! US, YOU AND ME, THE RESIDENTS OF SL. A program to reward us, to give us an incentive to do more, strive to make this a better world, is only correct, cause no one is making you have that SLINGO event, that dance, that art show, build that wonderous build. We do for the entertainment of others. We do it cause we can. And the one and only fair way to have this compensation, is by LL themsleves. How to measure this? No matter what you think of, no matter what brillant idea you concieve, lets all admit, TRAFFIC, DWELL, peeps attending your land. Yes this does not help camping chairs, it promotes a land of ZOMBIES, I know I have been there, I was lucky enough to hit number one on most popular list. I was lucky enough to be number two for over a month, and yes I spent RL dollars for my linden dollars. With a budget of over $30k lindens a day, in host fees, pot payouts (we have SLINGO, TRINGO, BLOOD,.....) AND the most dirty of dirty dance pads. We paid for attendance to our property, and we never made it back, there is no way to. But we did not do it for the financial gain, we did it cause we wanted to, and cause we had fun, and we had a DAMN GOOD TIME.
We had NOOB there in droves to make a few linden to start their new life here, I have had many say to me, if it was not for you, I would have never stayed in SL. It was to overwhelming, too confusing, and too hard to figure out how to make funds.
So what am I trying to say? Make the suggestion, make the requests, but with the end of DI, is the end of creativity, the end of free entertainment, but most of all is the end to friendship and helping each other. There is absolutly no reason for the MOST POPULAR LIST, there is no need for traffic, take it off the stats linden, take it aways from all the finds. You decided to end DI, you now should live with it.
I no longer have any FREE MONEY on my land, and want to know my traffic? try 4k to 8k a day, with FREE MONEY, try 60k to 85k a day. UMMM does anyone else see this? Does handing out lindens work to get traffic? Yes it does. No more DI? TAKE TRAFFIC OFF ALL STATS, AND LETS ALL SIT BACK AND RELAX. Lets all take a vacation from building, creating, planning, hosting, and see what a NOOB SEES. A bunch of lazy av's. There is no easy answer here, there is no solution,except LL took a stand, now lets all follow their lead. There is no incentive to do it, lets all have a party and relax a little.
This is just my opinion from experiance, good luck to all that feel they can find an answer, it is not an easy task your taking on.

LL obligated themselves when they created the DI program. This was their way of supporting the residents that tiered up and created - not to make a profit - but to add to Second Life and make it grow as it has. Free meeting places with hosted events are what keeps the basic account holder coming back and then turning into a premium and then tiered customer. If each basic acount holder with $50L in their pocket kept running into 'pay-me' land barriers I am sure there woudl be a steady decline in the population. It is a terrible shame that for a few dollars more LL seems to be willing to break yet another agreement with its paying customers and adversely effect the economy and community of SL.



There are folks in Sl who have large disposable incomes and those on fixed budgets. Everyone here should have the opportunity to create content. Not just those making a donation to LL. This is such a 'divide-and-conquer comment.
I have said nothing about FFRC's Box Office. Its a nice gadget and its free. What's not to like about it? You can give them kudos on their thread. Here it is in case you have difficulty locating it: /110/ab/58103/1.html
Those that approached LL about buying back the telehub land LL made useless when they made the P2P announcement did so because LL should not do anything to lower the value of any of our holdings. Bait and switch isn't good business.


Camping chairs become the scapegoat so LL can get content for free and a bunch of you fell for it (mostly those who don't like the 'Whiney Rich'). LL has no content providers on staff and they plan to keep it that way. And as long as you company stooges keep supporting this 'something for nothing' campaign - they will.

Amen