Event Calendar Changes - Discussion

EXACTLY!! EVERY single channel on there is a favorite or someone, no matter if we like it or not. Just because we don't like it, we have no right to whine that it needs to be removed from the lineup simply because it annoys us to see it on the list.

In all seriousness, those that do not play Tringo or do not like it may not fully comprehend this (or care). But EVERY Tringo game truly is different. As a player, I can tell you that we all have our favorites as well as those that we truly hate. There are places to play that we love and places that we wouldn't set foot in. There are hosts that we adore and hosts that we find rude, annoying, etc. So, altho you may see a lot of listings for Tringo.. for us, the players, those listings for places we do not care to visit are "clutter" as well. Trust me, we would love to be able to filter out certain listings ourselves. *grin* I believe this is true for EVERY "event genre".

Ya know... last night I found myself bored. My usual events were not on the calendar.. I saw nothing that interested me.. so I logged out early and went into There for awhile and then to bed. Normally I would have been in SL way into the night. *SIGH*

One sad part is that certain venues are still listing in mass doses while the ones I personally loved are completely unlisted now. Not fair. *pout*

You know I didn't think about this until I read what you wrote. I used to spend ALL my on-line time in a Yahoo chat room....was there for years. As soon as I discovered SL I dropped my Yahoo room like a hot potato. After months of not chatting on Yahoo I just revisited it last night. Just felt like it......I guess now I know why.......SL didn't have what I was looking for.

Uh-oh.....I hope the Lindens are reading this!

Ohh I am so glad to know it wasn't just me!

*shrug* I prolly saved some $L tho. I tend to wander around "window shopping" between events. When I had no events to wait around for, I found that I had no need to "waste time"... so I didn't go shopping either.

I'm probably going to be one of the few people that actually think this is a good idea. (You should know I always like the unpopular things by now. )

For one thing, to me, it puts all club/event holders on equal footing with an equal chance for success. Now, just because you have the most people doesn't mean you'll have the most listings. I was also quite sick of the events board being crowded with events on the same place all the time, not even different events in content persay, and I think this will do a good job of eliminating that.

As far as UK/Europe/Aussie/other timezones not in the US, I don't see how this will limit the amount of events that can be held at these times. I mean, if clubs decide not to host events at times that work for these people, then people will and should attempt to create places that will. Just because Club X doesn't host events at your time means that it's the only game in town, and I would hope people would be a little less defeatist than "Oh poo, no one will host an event for me now. I think I will go cry." instead of getting off their butt and doing what it takes to run an event.

Now, I know that having landholders as the only people to create events is not exactly ideal, but also think of this from LL's perspective. People who aren't paying anything towards the tier upkeep of the land are holding events there. That's like a city selling you a piece of property and then anyone and their mother coming over uninvited and throwing a party. (This *was* possible under the old situation.) If you want your friends/employees to be able to host events, I believe that group deeding the land and putting these friends in the group will fix that. But I think LL's position on this is "If you want to play, you gotta pay," and this doesn't surprise me at all nor does it strike me as a bad desicion for the company.

About LL support of events. This has been dogging around for a while, and I'm still glad they took it away. The whole goal of this was to control the SL economy, and regulate the price of the Linden. The problem that I see is that the economy is not regulating. Maybe it's just me, but I certainly haven't seen inworld prices for items going down. In fact, I've seen them going up in some cases. What this tells me is that people are not adjusting yet to the decreased amount of income flowing into the system. I'm not crying "the death of the economy" here, but things will have to adjust eventually (prices/prizes/etc) but until this happens, people will continue to lose money giving them away at event-support levels.

Lastly, there was a comment above that really bothered me a lot.

This, to me, really stated how much people have forgotten, or weren't even here, when SL wasn't about money at all, but having fun and being creative and having good friends. To me, this is still what SL is about, and why I continue to have fun regardless. If you don't like paying $400 a month to them for an island, then stop paying for it. People act like they run something and should not only be able to make a buck but be able to recoup their costs completely. Well, I say that if you're running your "company" and you're constantly losing money, then you're either gonna continue to eat the costs and continue to complain or you need to rethink your business model and your expenses. But most importantly, you need to evaluate if spending that kind of money is worth the fun you're getting out of it. If you're not having fun, then you need to change.

The true definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Actually, this isn't quite how it is turning out. What some are doing are breaking their plots up into 512s so they can have more listings. Therefore, those with more land get to list more. This can be rather painful for the smaller locations. Personally, there is NO way I will deed my land to a group simply so others can list their events. Frankly, I am not willing to take the risk of someone accidently (or not *gasp*) releasing or selling the land on me.

Right now, I can go to the list and see a mass listing by certain locations while others are left with NO events listed. This just isn't working.

I feel we need a complete revamping of the Events Listings. My cluttered thoughts...

- Unlimited Listings (exception being one listing per time slot - no double listings for the same event)
- User Preferences:
- ability to filter certain events from our personalized event list (by event type, host, location, etc)
- ability to highlight certain events on our personalized event list (again by event type, host, location, etc)
- new section along the lines of "My Schedule" in which each event we choose to be notified about is listed
- ability to choose our own notification time (5 minutes isn't always enough notice)

- "Authorized Hosts" addition to the About Land control tabs, similiar to the Access and Ban lists (so only the people we want to be able to host on our land can do so)

Nala - this isn't alltogether accurate. First thing - as Anjelle pointed out - the system is already being gamed in such a way that benefits large landowners, and shuts out smaller venues more than they were before.

Secondly - I too was sick of the events board being crowded with events... but to me - the problem is trying to sort thru all those events... not the number of them. Some of the events you and I hate are ones other folks love. Event filters would solve that problem for both of us.



It will though, Nala.... and not neccesarily through lack of ambition or determination. The problem is - assuming I follow the rules, I am now limited to 3 postings per day. UK/Euro events just don't get as good of a turnout as prime-time US events do. So while I would have experimented with UK/Euro events before.... now, its just not worth it to "waste" one of my 3 events on it. That's the problem with this sort of restriction. If people have to ration their events now, they're going to use them where they're most effectual - not neccesarily on what is most fun or most creative.



Actually, this part is already in the process of being fixed. Jeff Linden mentioned the dev's are working on a way for landowners to specify "authorized hosts". So debating it now is kinda moot for both of us

I KNEW I was forgetting something else I had on my mental list here... LOL

- Addition of individual parcel event listings*

* When viewing the parcel listing under Find/Places I would like to see the addition of a button for EVENTS (as well as LANDMARK returned). This way we could look up our favorite venue and see a full list of just their events.

SL won't need money when everything in world is free. Not worrying about being able to afford things you would like is generally more the norm when you CAN afford the things you like. Whether the content creators like it or not, the majority of the people in SL do not create things to sell. They do not look for employment in SL. They come to have fun. They already have jobs, responsibilities, etc. They don't want, or need, to be forced into a second set of these in a video game. They are here to have fun. If we judge this concept called "fun" by what these people go to then I would assert that a lot of people consider gambling events "fun." If not, then I would hazard a guess to say that they would go elsewhere.

If they found scripting classes fun then you wouldn't be able to enter a sim holding a scripting class dues to the sim being full. I have not encountered this yet. I understand that having a little more variety in events isn't a bad thing, but limiting whatever events are popular is a poor way to do it. If you alienate your customers, the world will consist of Lonesome Linden and a few friki tiki wiki's twisting prims and saying things like, "remember when SL needed multiple servers due to all the players here?"

"Bah, those were the bad days! Now it's just the three of us doing things that aren't crap!"

Just a humble opinion,

Vince

If you look on the event calendar today, there are 12 (TWELVE) events for Ice Dragon Resorts.

I tried to post my 3 events today... and the system would only let me post TWO (Because my third event was exactly 24 hours before todays 1st event).

I don't have the land to subdivide my parcel, and game the system. So basically, I'm shut out.

Doesn't seem like a very equitable system to me.

Oh, and for the record - not faulting Ice Dragon or anyone else applying this strategy.... If I owned a whole sim, I'd probably do EXACTLY the same thing. Just pointing out how this new system can be gamed in a way that makes it about 12 times as unfair as it was before.

Yep!!! Absolutely!!!

I enjoy hanging at Ice Dragon, and will continue to do so. But UR right......the smaller land owner or the person(s) who are hesitant to share the ownership of their land is/are fooked.

Lindens!!! are ANY of U LISTENING?!?!?

Well, I know that Ice Dragon has a land owner's group consisting of four members and if they have subdivided their parcel to be able to post more events then that would be the result. This really is an unfair way to change the event rules when, accoridng to a Linden, the real problem was that the events calendar was designed for a much smaller population than it currently serves. It would seem that the best solution would be to redesign the events calendar....... not to try and reduce it's content.

I probably could have worded that better, but I was very frustrated after having to answer to those who could not host yesterday. I *do* enjoy SL, and I am not in it to make a buck. I know I do not *have* to pay the tier fees for an Island. And I have made a lot of friends in the process. Many of these friends depend on me, the prizes, and the ability to host and make their own lindens so that they may enjoy the game more thoroughly. I do not do the same thing over and over and expect different results. I was happy with the results the way they were. And I still believe that the fix is better search and filtering capabilities, not pissing on the people who host events to earn a little spending money and cannot affod to buy land to do so.

I am not personally affected by this all that much. In fact, I probably would SAVE money if I never sponsored another event. But to me the events, and socializing that accompanies them are all part of the fun, and I think that had it been opened for discussion BEFORE the action was taken, a better solution could have been found. But I have never in these forums said I do not enjoy the game or threatened to quit over it. I like to think that maybe I can help make it a better place.

The only way that taking away events host money could be an effectual way of strengthening the $Linden is if events hosts were, in the first place, paid a substantial amount of money and if, in the second place, the population was significantly full of events hosts. Neither is the case. Most of the money that came out of the economy by a very wide margin was the money that came out due to the ratings change. 2/3 of the money associated with events hosting that came out of the economy was prize money paid out. I think we could safely reinstate events host money at previous rates ($250 per event that lasts more than an hour) without affecting the SL economy at all. It is my belief that this had nothing to do with strengthening the Linden, and Everything to do with eliminating administrative paperwork for LL. BUT if the product is entertainment, and events hosts are aiding in the production and distribution of that product, then why not compensate them for that? Why SHOULD club owners and land owners subsidize the entertainment of LLs customers out of pocket? and it does kinda suck that I can't post events as me. my club owner's land has to stay in her own name so that she continues to get free tier (as one of the Vive La Evolution prize winners) and so deeding the land to the group undoes the only thing that keeps making it possible for the gathering place to operate. Perse will have to post, even though I am a better known events host.

(quoting NYX here) About LL support of events. This has been dogging around for a while, and I'm still glad they took it away. The whole goal of this was to control the SL economy, and regulate the price of the Linden. The problem that I see is that the economy is not regulating. Maybe it's just me, but I certainly haven't seen inworld prices for items going down. (End quote)

That was Nala Galatea who said that

Sorry about that. Got my Avie Names confused! TGIF.

Yes I do worry about the many I pay into SL now. I am also thinking of quitting this mess. Yes I own a club, rental property, a plaza, and now unfortunately soon two islands. OH MY GOD!!!!! What was I thinking. I have a samll club on a little land that can only hold 29 people max before we crash. Yes I do hold those so called unimportant stupid events because that is what the people like. Who is to say what is important to one is not important to another. THAT IS LIFE!! SECOND LIFE. The freedom to do what you want when you want, how you want.

SO as far as this new policy goes? Here is what I see. THis is one more way to screw the people who pay in to SL. Less events, less dwell, less money. Divide up your land once again smaller dwell. I see places closing, people leaving.

Why did I come into this GAME? I wonder now, but in the beginning I enjoyed meeting people, giving people a place to have fun and be themselves without hassle.

Do I make money? Don't make me laugh! My employees do and that keeps them in this game. So if I go down that means they make nothing to stay in this game. Everyone loses.

As has been said fix the calendar and quit messing with the people. THis game is supposed to be about life, a seocnd life. For some thier only life it seems. ROFLMAO

Do not attack each other. We are all here for our own reasons and that is our right. Freedom has just been taken away from us and you should all scream. It was also taken without any notice to the residents of SL. WHy is it if they are going to fix a bug (supposedly) they tell the world, but when the change will affect anything that has to do with money it is kept a secret and you find out about it when your hosts go to post. Do I check the forum every day? I guess I better from now on.

Yes I am pissed off and writing about it. Not only for myself but htose people out there that yes spend there time and money to run whatever events they have.

FIX THE BUG LINDENS, YOU MADE IT!!!!

Has anyone seen Jurasic Park? or read the book?

They tried to build a theme park that was fully automated,something that required as little input as possible from the people raking in the money.

'Life will find a way'

No matter what automated system Linden Labs put into this game someone will ALWAYS find a way to screw it.There was nothing wrong, at all, with the way things were before they began to slaughter the way events were run - nothing.As someone correctly stated above it was in fact the ratings system that was killing the L$ and not event support.

Now to the most important point of ALL so bear with me.

Wether you host Tringo,Sexy Avi Contests,Book Reading,Poetry Evenings, then you are keeping people in this game and even in some cases you are bringing people INTO this game.As a club owner I pay $140 a month for land tier,have paid $200 for a radio station and $30 a month to stream.I did this all because it was fun and because this place brought people together from all over the world. My group has over 1000 members and is the biggest in Second Life and I KNOW how people feel about what Linden Labs have done to events,what they are STILL doing to events - but are LL listening? not a bit of it.

I did'nt come here to run a business,my club has NEVER made money,I came here to relax and have some fun and I'll tell you what pisses me off the most.Myself,the hosts in my club,the DJ's were all a PART of what makes Second Life what it is and yet even though we constantly had what was this games most popular place we received ZERO help from Linden Labs and I think the hosts in Second Life DESERVE event support for helping to make this THE most diverse online enviroment there is.

This latest move by Linden Labs imposing even more restrictions on events is a joke.I pay over $200 a month to be here and yet at EVERY turn Linden Labs seem to be doing their level best to drive us out when they should be supporting the hosts who make most of the locations in this place live and breathe.I dont want something for nothing - I MORE than pay my way in this game, and to all those who say event hosts and club owners were leeching off the system well you can all kiss my arse.

This discussion is a waste of time - its not up to US to monitor events it's up to Linden Labs and they should dam well hire the staff to do the job instead of making stupid changes in world that are designed to make it run with a minimum of effort on their part.

We used to hold an event every 3 hours from 9am until 4pm, we didnt try to monopolise anything,I even help run a group that encourages clubs to co-operate with each other to provide the best options possible for the people here.We asked for Linden Lab sanction and we were ignored,the woman who runs what has been Second Lifes top location for events for the last 9 months is NEVER asked her opinion - surely that cant be right?

I'm sick to death of Linden Labs imposing stupid regulations on me for something that I'm paying so much money to be a part of, I'm sick of Linden Labs telling me that I cant do events ON THE VERY LAND I'M SUPPOSED TO OWN. I, and many others like me, are what keep many many people in this game entertained BEYOND scripting/building/etc and its about dam time Linden Labs went back to supprting that fact.

I'm sorry for the length of this post and for it's passion but I've NEVER believed,as Linden Labs seem to do, that Second Lifes biggest strength is in it's creativity.I believe it's strength is in it's ability to bring people together irespective of WHAT they actually do when they are here.I love exploring,love the diversity of what I see and the people that I meet BUT...............

Go to some of these magnificent builds and look around,go to some of the places that players spent MONTHS building and what do you see? You see......emptiness,because the FACT is that without events and event hosts these places are dead.

STOP messing with it Linden Labs before it gets to the point where ALL these places are dead.

I saw how some are getting around the rules today. I looked at the event list and decided to go check out one. I flew to the landmark and found a small plot with nothing there except a sign and a teleporter that takes you to where the event is really being held. Is this wrong? Should it be reported?

I think it totally screws me, and others that have just enough land neccesary to have a decent place, and can't flex the rules by subdividing but....

The new rules state:

"There is a limit of three events per location per 24-hour period on the event calendar. Also, each person can post only three events per 24-hour period."

The key word here is "location" - and like everything, that can be interpreted different ways. That's a problem.

It just exemplifies how the current set of rules are fundimentally flawed. The best suggestion I could make is to voice your concerns to Robin Linden or Jeff Linden in the most diplomatic way possible.

Yes that was mine and yes it is diferent. What difference does it make if they land there and then go to the club. What difference is it than someohter places where they land at a telelhub and then tp to a club. No matter how it is done the dwell is screwed. Am I cheating? No I am trying to let everyone know we are here and come play. Yes I feel sorry for the peeps who do not have as much land. On the list i have a liitle land also.

I am getting screwed over by the lindens. I pay 537 dollars a month for what i have. I make no money. You want me to put a sing walk to the club this way? This is the only way that people can see that the club is now closed and SPAM my god we bitched about it before what do think will happen now. I figure, I pay for the land i'll do whatever the hell i please with it!!!

Yet another knee-jerk, poorly implemented change that goes far beyond solving the core problems it was meant to solve.

The necessity of deeding my land to a group so that members can host events is just ridiculous. Why should I put my land holdings at risk just so that other folks can enjoy my land?

LL, this just plain sucks. You have mucked up events, again and again, going back as far as June/July of last year.

LEAVE THEM THE F ALONE! Sheesh.

Not at all happy, can you tell?

And there you have the whole problem in a nutshell.

This new rule screws the 'little man' the one who does it all for fun,the one who does not have money to pour into Linden Labs game. Just the same way as withdrawing event support did.

But if you can BUY more land - hey! - it's all good!

If you can BUY more L$ it's all good!

Anyone else catching on yet?

Ever since the guy who owns E-Bay became involved in this place it's just gone from bad to worse - coincidence? Someone tell me that Second Life is not moving more and more towards taking your $

I myself have no knowledge of Ebay involvement with SL, but I do know about Ebay mentality. And I know for a fact that if it comes between losing $20 or losing a customer, they'll lose the customer. It's one of the most self-serving, money-greedy companies I have ever had the displeasure of using. Immensely profitable? Yes. I like to remember that the Mafia is also extremely profitable. A guy once told me put the customer first and profits will follow... plus you'll have friends. I think Sam Walton proved that theory valid.

But, I digress. Just had to get that out there. LOL

Regarding this event situation, sometimes a change needs to be made and for some reason, the absolute worst "solution" is chosen.

In this case, first Lindens withdraw financial support of events. That was their right, but we have seen the consequenses: "fun", non-commercial events are now few and far between. Gambling and porn events cover the board and business advertise the same event 3 times a day, day after day after day.

But now we have to OWN a piece of land to post an event there???

Anshe, kiss your merchant sponsoring of fun events goodbye, because now I can't hold an event on your land! Hey groups that I belong to: kiss your events goodbye, because now I can't post your own group events because your homeland is owned by an individual rather than being set to group! Astrin, forget your concerts, because you can't play anywhere but on land that you own!

We just opened up a private sim that is under the ownership of an individual. I am the FOUNDER of the group to which that sim is set. I am the FOUNDER of the group which inhabits that land and for which the entire sim is themed. Yet I CANNOT POST AN EVENT because the sim was purchased through my partner. This is suppose to be a good solution to a supposedly cluttered Calendar?

I have news for you folks... the calendar is not nearly as cluttered as it was while you were still sponsoring events. It's just that back then, there were so many good events we couldn't attend them all. Now I hardly even bother to look at it; I know it's going to be nothing but silliness and commercial scams.

We are told, "Oh, just deed the land to group". We don't WANT to deed the land to group and put land parameters in the hands of everyone in the group. We don't want to have traffic profits go to every Tom Dick and Harry who happens to want to join our group. We shouldn't HAVE to deed land to group to be able to grant MANAGER PERMISSIONS to specific people in this land and we shouldn't have to chop up our sim just to get events posted.