Event Discrimination

I go to yard sales too. Often. But you know I really hate perusing the damn events list, finding a sale that I haven't been to already (as they are posted like 6 times a damn day) and then going only to find it isn't actually a yard sale -- its someone selling stuff he or she made or someone who has a second hand store or something that is ongoing 24 hours a day 7 days a week and attaches to a store. I go to yard sales often enough to know who abuses this system. I've been in SL since Sept 05 and at least one person on this thread who is complaining has been having a yard sale since I arrived. That's 7 months. This same person had a listing every few hours every weekend since I arrived. THAT IS NOT A YARD SALE -- IT IS A BUSINESS!

So you know who you are and you know what you've done. You can give yourself a big pat on the back for ruining it for people who are having legitimate yard sales. But you have no business complaining in this or any other forum about discrimination.

The calendar rules do require a host to be present for the duration of the event.

That's part of the problem... it's very difficult to check every single event to see that they are following the basic rules.

Self regulation and trusting people to be able to follow the rules obviously isn't working. But it seems that none of the easy solutions are being terribly well received.

Lewis

I agree that a 24 hour a day 7 day a week sale is NOT an event. It does bug me to see people posting the same sale over and over and over. But should the fact that there are people manipulating the system that way ruin it for the rest of us? I hold occasional (maybe once every few weeks) yard sales for three reasons:
1) I have a lot of crap lol. I'll often buy an outfit in a store I really like, wear it four or five times and get sick of it. It ends up sitting in my inventory until i pull it out, put it in a box and sell it to someone else who might enjoy it for awhile.
2) I'm a wedding planner, so I often make tons of decorations for someone's wedding that I have no use for afterward. They're my own creations and I've usually given them to the bride and groom to keep but I end up with multiple copies in my own inventory too. So I'll put them out, delete the originals and sell them for cheap. It's either do that or throw them away. I have no use for them anymore anyway.
3) I like making money! It's fun to sit on my land for a few hours, get some new visitors and make a few hundred linden basically doing nothing.

I believe that when I hold a yardsale I follow the rules.
I have a store BUT I hold my yardsale all the way on the other side of the island away from the store and I dont sell inventory from my store in the yard sale. Like I said you will find a few things created by me but they wont be the same things that are in the vendor on the other side of the island and they certainly wouldn't be similar in price.
I host my yard sales. I'm actually there and while you might occasionally find me afk (I do have RL responsibilities) I am there and I am easily reached.
I hold my yard sales for a few hours at a time. The last one I did, I held it for only three hours in the morning. The one before that I had one for three hours in the morning and another one for two hours in the evening. In my mind that IS an event. I go to the trouble to set up, I spend the time there and it isn't something you'll find happening any day you happen to drop by. That in my opinion is an event.

Lately I've been thinking about making this an every saturday event until I either run out of stuff or get tired of doing it. (excluding saturdays when I'm doing someone's wedding of course) So I guess I'm asking for an opinion here. If I started doing this every saturday morning for three hours and I hosted it the entire time... would it still qualify as an event or would it then fall under the category of a business? At this point I'm still seeing it as an event. Someone else can host a slingo game every saturday, and they get to post it as an event. Is what I want to do different though?

No, it's not an event, because you're not doing anything except sitting there and maybe answering the odd question. It's no different to any other shop where the proprietor is online, and just because your shop isn't open very often or changes its stock doesn't make it not a shop. It's not an event, nothing's actually happening apart from people buying stuff off you.

I'm not doing anything except answering the odd question??? Actually i'm clearing spaces when people buy things, reminding them to pick up and take with them what they buy, occasionally haggling over prices (last time I let someone talk me down on a gazebo from 100L to 50L and it was worth a lot more) And besides, when you go to say a dance event or a slingo event... is what the host is doing there any more labor intensive... a host is someone who is present to fullfill any needs the guest may have. That is what I do.

As for my shop and I am not denying it is a shop... like I said, its way over on the other side of the island. People who come to my yardsale never even see my store, they would have to fly all the way over to see it. In my store I sell clothes that I've made. In my yard sale I sell flowers and furniture and clothes OTHER PEOPLE have made. As I stated in my last post... you WONT see my store inventory in my yard sale. The two aren't even connected.

People coming who wouldn't normally drop by for the sole purpose of seeing what I have for the few hours that I have it (not every day all the time like any store) I still say it's an event. In the real world (First Life, whatever) when you have a garage sale its not something you do all the time and you will meet people you wouldn't have met otherwise, you will advertise in the newspaper. It's an event that is unlike your normal daily activity.

I do want to know what other people think but Ordinal I can't agree with your argument because I am hosting and it's not at all connected with my store.

Yes, it IS an event, according to the event guidelines:

It has a definite start and end time.

There is a host present.

Therefore, not only do you feel it is an event, it actually is an event according to LL.

coco

A slingo game is a group activity that is hosted..in blocks of hours it has an end and start time..

thus its an event and it isn't just 'getting away with it'

whats with the games descrimination?

Thats my take so far too thank you coco.

Jonas, no I'm sorry if I sounded as if I was saying anything against games, that wasn't what I meant. What I meant was that it is similar. If a slingo game with a host and a start time and stop time is an event, then so is a yard sale with a host and a start time and stop time. I'm saying it's the same thing.

The people who are getting away with something in my opinion are those who post what is basically the same event over and over again back to back. When it supposedly ends at 3pm but yet the exact same thing is posted to start again at 3pm and this is done four times throughout the day... thats bending the rules to the point of breaking I think.

Thank you for that clarification..alot don't have that attitude where they cans ee games as events.

Events should be SPECIAL. Irregularly held, for a specific purpose.

24 hour back to back *ingo, or whatever game, is not a special event... it's just a perpetual activity going on on that same plot of land.

A parcel of land holds an event at 6pm SLT every single day. That qualifies.

A parcel of land holds the same event 8 times a day, for 3 hours back to back, every single day. That doesn't qualify because it's not a special event.

In this case, the fact it may be hosted, and may require interaction, is irrelevant - my greater concern is the multiple event spamming. Cut down on that, and I believe more people will be encouraged to start special events and give more things to do.

After all.... look at the calendar. Probably 75% of the 'events' are *ingo. Maybe that's what attracts people - but perhaps they don't actually know that there is anything better to do? I'm quite sure if people would be creative, and come up with NEW stuff (instead of a new casino popping up, going to the same stores as all the other casinos, and buying exactly the same equipment, tuning into the same crappy techno music stream, and lagging another region to death) there'd be a lot more pleasure for a lot more people.

People take a look at the events calendar, and what do they see? Casinos, nightclubs, and that's about it. There is SO MUCH MORE that SL offers - yet it doesn't get the exposure or opportunity it deserves because, just like in other games, people flock lemming-like to the 'popular' places without any consideration as to *why* they considered popular, and turn into money leeches whilst the human sleeps. LL have got to take action and steer the game away from this poor state of affairs before it gets to the point that the grid is full but there's nobody to talk to.

Lewis

Need to brush up on your reading comprehension, dear... that was my point - THEY'RE NOT AN EVENT IF THEY ARE CONNECTED TO A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.

And then you re-sell whatever items you collect at another BOGUS "yard sale" which is essentially an extension of your secondhand items shop. That's not an "event", it's an ongoing commercial sale.



And they're just as bogus as your "yard sale".



It does work, you're just pissed because they won't give you free advertising for your ONGOING COMMERCIAL BUSINESS. Why can't you wrap your little brain around the fact that "YARD SALE" as defined by anyone with half a brain is a NON-COMMERCIAL event which is NOT a daily, 24/7 business operation.

Well, fine, perhaps you are carrying out other activities related to the sale and being a good host, just as any professional shopkeeper would do; I'm sure you are perfectly charming. However, it is still a commercial enterprise and not particularly different from any other yard sale you choose to host. The fact is also that many "yard sales" (apart from the ones held by everyone who posts about it here on the forums, who all seem to be the most astoundingly attentive hosts) are nothing like that, and just a series of objects for people to buy; if you are looking for the culprits in giving yard sales a bad name I suggest you look to those.

I don't consider dance "events" or slingo "events" to be either in the main, thus that comparison is lost on me.

To be honest it is not particularly important what I consider an event, or you consider an event, since neither of us are moderating the Events list. It seems to me that the regulations as written exclude yard sales, and it has been confirmed that this is the official policy, though it is not being carried through to practice very consistently.

Ms. Kitty:
It seems you did NOT read the text above the "I agree" button, while I think it's pretty self explanatory...

I don't need to but thanks dear.

I want to make it clear that I think a yard sale, that happens as a three hour event, that a host is present for the entire time, that sells second-hand items at a discount, is a legitimate event. I would treasure going to such an event and to me, this is what yard sales are about. I love them in real life, I love them in Second Life. To be even clearer -- even if it happens every weekend, if its three hours, sells second hand stuff, isn't attached to a store, and has a host -- its an event.

This isn't what most yard sales are though and THAT is the reason there's been action taken. Lana you know as well as I do that you are in the minority. You know that most yard sales are businesses. You know that most yard sales are not hosted. You know that most yard sales are, if they are not businesses, 72 hour events that are posted 6 times a day, for two to three days. I'm sorry these people have ruined it for you -- honestly I am. I would love to see more yard sales that are as you do them.

Maybe though.. what needs to happen here is that there needs to be a more concerted effort to get other people, some of whom appear in this thread, to clean up their act. I'm just sayin....

Slingo qualifies as an event for a good reason: it is one, whether you feel it is or not. It meets the requirements listed.



When I host the slingo..its one feel. When another does, its another feel. Some people are businesslike..other sjoke. I'm more like a circus ringmaster (actually lookign for an outfit)..

That makes the 'normal' event 'special.'

Same as the events I host at a friends club. Speaking of.. Fairy ngiht at Club Inferno, thursday 5-7pm sl time

Prize to best dressed in male and female fairy (host excluded from competition)

A lot of events don't meet the "special" requirement, strict policing of the events category would improve things but would be a very large amount of work. Right now people should be getting blacklisted from events for abuse but very little is being done.

It would help if events were controlled through plot rather than poster to prevent spam. Unfortunately I think some people would still mess around with parcels to avoid this.

The regulations as written specify only:

1. The event must have a definite beginning and end time.

2. A host must be present.

There is nothing in that to conclude that yard sales are excluded. It has not been confirmed that it is official policy that no yard sales can be listed.

As for your idea that an event should not be commercial, two points:

1. There is a commercial category. That is the category where store openings, special sales, and yard sales should go.

2. Every event is a commercial enterprise to one degree or another, because the host benefits commercially from it (and often intends to).

coco

It is not a perpetual event. If a place holds Tringo at 4 and Bingo at 5 and Greedy Greedy at 6, those are three different events. (Often with different hosts.) I would be attending the event at 5, and not the ones at 4 and 6.

They are events to me. Because I want to attend one of them, when it says it is going to be. I will attend it, there will be a host present, and the game will start at 5 and be over at 6. The event will be over and I will go home.

I look on the events calendar to find that very Bingo game, to know when it is going to start, and to be there when it starts.

coco

That is true... but in reality that isn't what happens. It is the same place running the same activity, back to back, in 3 hour slots, day after day, that I believe is the real problem here. A quick "sort by name" of the calendar shows instantly who is spamming the calendar with multiple entries.

If people can't follow the rules... then they must reap the consequences. Remove posting privileges for that parcel of land for a month. That's what I'd do.

Lewis

Why is not important what you or I consider an event? Are we not the people who exist in this virtual world? Official policies can and should be changed if the majority want them changed. I guess the question is, who is in the majority?

Ordinal (Quote: Well, fine, perhaps you are carrying out other activities related to the sale and being a good host, just as any professional shopkeeper would do)

But I'm not a professional shopkeeper, I'm a person standing in my yard selling stuff I dont need anymore and not out to make a profit.

Vivi, I do realize to some extent the way I do things isn't the norm, yes. I do things the way I do them because I am trying to follow the rules but also because thats just the way I like to do it. I personally dont see the point in having a yard sale if I'm just going to log off and not be there for it.

I have to agree with what seems to be a consensus... A store and a yard sale should NOT be connected to one another. If I choose to connect my store with my sale then I should have them at the same location and call it a STORE SALE. I choose instead to simply keep them very seperate. For those who call my yard sale a "business". I can't see it that way, I'm sorry. For me it isn't a business, it isn't a situation in which I'm trying to promote myself or my own merchandise. What I'm selling for the most part is second hand things that have been used and are of no more value to me. I'm certainly not making any profit on an outfit I paid 350L for and am now selling for 75L. Even when I am selling my own creations that I have used for someone's wedding or event and now have no use for... when I count in the upload costs for textures and the time spent creating a gazebo and then compare it to what I sell it for at a yard sale, I break even if I'm lucky. My income is generated by my wedding planning business, my yard sale is just a nice way to spend a saturday morning and the two have nothing to do with one another.

I really think if we just clarify that in order for an event to be called an event it must have a host and a beginning and ending time then we're all covered. I even think the "ingo" events are seperate events if they all have seperate hosts. 3pm slingo hosted by Joe Schmo ending at 6pm and 6pm slingo hosted by Jane Doe are two seperate events in my mind... however back to back constantly running games and casinos all posted by the same person and hosted by whatever "employee" happens to be around at that time but not announced..... thats just a running business.

Again I equate it to first life. You have a casino in vegas where people come in and out all day playing games... that is just a running business and nothing special. When that casino has a special night for strictly high rollers, THEN it is a special event. If you have a store that sells ladies clothing that is a running business. If your store has a one day sale in which you mark down your merchandise, THEN it is a special event. If you live in your house every day its just a home, but if you put your used things out on your lawn and post a yard sale sign, THEN it is a special event. An event is something that is seperate from your normal daily activity.

It doesn't work like that. You either abide by the rules, or go elsewhere. There will be plenty more people coming along to take your place.

SL is not a democracy. Small parts (like Neualtenberg) are, but the simple truth of the matter is LL is a business and they will do what they need to to make a profit regardless, most of the time, of what any of us think.

Unless you happen to be a big land baron... that's different.

Lewis

Wow, i'm sorry Lewis, i can't agree with that statement. Abide by the rules or go elsewhere simply isn't how any society works. When the rules don't work for the majority of the people they are changed.

And ok you're right on one point LL is a business. But as in ANY business, when the policies dont work for the majority of the customers that business generally changes their policies as LL has proven many times. Granted we dont all always get what we want, that simply isn't possible but I believe LL has adjusted their way of doing things on several occasions. Yes they are out to make a profit... but frankly, what we think of them IS how they make their profit.

And to say that you can only affect change if you are a land baron.... thats fairly cynical.

The rules DO work for the MAJORITY of people, it is those who repeatedly spam the events calender with repeat events in 3 hour back to back slots who are the cause of the problem, not "most players". So, your statement is incorrect. Stop the multiple event spamming and 95% of the event calendar problem is solved.



Truth is often seen as cynicism by those who don't understand.

Lewis