Clubs Making Money

Problem is some very greedy top clubs don`t want to deal with paying staff. Even if they are AAAAA quility. The bottom line is owners at times want people to work for nothing. They only see $$$$$. If a good host cost say XXXL per event, they should be paid it and not expected to to work for free. I had this problem in my last position ( see this was that sex club )where he cried the club does not make money. LOL he had vendors!!!!!!!!!! Then i had another person i worked for he cried he paid for then 50 staff members and he kept the club inthe top ten bla bla bla. That screw ball paid the Dj/host all that money and paid dancers almost nothing( so I ran off to another club and made my name and money.it was his loss)....So it comes in all sort of bullshi* drama hype......... Sad facts top owners try to get good host and DJs for ZERO............If this is the case , why the hell are they even trying to run a club!.............. Hence to sum up this topic, don`t even try to run a club if your not willing to pay top staff for running and hosting a club.....Clubs just don`t make money...........
Sarah Nerd sumed it well..........................do it for the memories and the friends you wil make. Other then that don`t expect to cashin the Lindens if your not willing to pay into the game.....
Sarah Nerd and Jesse Murdock..........are the Heros of Sl these days in the club side.

I second Sarah's post...She hit it right on the head. We started back in November 05 with BB's Honey Lounge (Now Club Kohana) thinking of course that we'd make a little money and have a fun place to hang out with our friends. Almost immediately we realized that making money is not a very realistic option when owning a club. 2000L per day worth of events, Random Money orbs, employee's..etc...put the costs of just running the club at 500$US per month or more. Stick it on a private sim..195$ per month on top of that. We gave up a long time ago on the money making side and now just try to have fun, entertaining events. A bi-product of this is having the opportunity to make some of the best friends a person could ever dream of having.

Sarah's post was straight to the point, making money is not the reason to do a club. A friend of mine who is a dj has a small club he built up and its nice, and he just does it to hang with his friends and provide a community service and for his own amusement.

As always "good" is in the eyes of the beholder.

DJs can be paid a "salary" if they know where to go and they are good. Same goes for live entertainers. Trust me if I get a DJ at my club that is good I want them to come back

I don't expect LL to pay me for providing entertainment-use imagination, sweat and networking skills to make the tier.......

It's not that I just think all clubs and parties should be payed for in SL....

What i feel is this: Certain creative content (creative meaning artistic, above&beyond, imaginative) could apply to small incentives for the traffic they bring in. This would be a dwell incentive, but only for the creative content locations that applied and are approved.
I think live music venues, and live performance venues should be able to apply to receive dwell. ....not clubs for hanging out, not dancing spots, not contest areas... but places where the content and performance are the focus, but the venue has no way of making money.

In RL, unlike SL, clubs make money selling entrance fees and alcohol.... neither of which happen in SL. SL is not like RL..... however, in RL, govts DO subsidize creative organizations and venues that could not function without it (museams, public concert halls). Also, in RL, the donations from sponsors is an impactful quantity in relation to the costs. In SL, there is no chance that sponsor's contributions could come close to the cost of running a venue.

Furthermore, in SL, when people come to performance locations, they tip the performers, not the venue... plus the venue usually pays the performer as well. Performer makes the bank, and the venue suffers.

SL and RL are different in entertainment and event aspects... however most all SL users try to live the same way one would in RL... and this system does not work out for creative venues in SL

Not as offen as you might think these days...........
Even in good quility setting or workers tiping is a lost art form in many many cases.

And that really isn't a problem to the performers... the performers do not have residual expenses for playing in SL... the venue owners do though.

Being a Club Owner now for awhile (Club Republik) it has existed for a little over a year total and we spent alot of time getting land and building things up. We have been open for a little over 3 months total but have been around for awhile and I've been involved in club settings since i started up in SL, which was a good experience because i kind of learned what i didnt like in the club settings as well and also i met the girl of my dreams in one . Now the thing is we do Not make any money ourselves. We have staff. We dont have vendors we have escorts and dancers and if we make anything off them its all put back in world. I dont think some people realize what some of these clubs take to run. Republik for instance is joint owned by me and sable sunset and together we pay over 210 usd a month. Thats without running events or handing out a ton of free cash. And our basis is we dont want people working with us that are overtly concerned with money we want them to be working there for fun and because they want to.

We take our staff as more of a family then employee's and we have good fun. I try to help staff where i can. And if we made alot of money sure we'd give them some bonuses. For instance one of my staff members has just started making tattoos. Now i've been doing tattoos in SL lets see....... 10 months+ and offered to help her with tips or whatever where i could. We didnt open republik to be popular or gain alot of traffic we opened it as a place for people to come have fun and those that work there and come back time and time again seem to have a good time. We have between 4.5k - 8k traffic on a regular basis but we dont mind being at that range. If the people have a good time and enjoy the music great . The staff know we are a non profit club and i think alot of them enjoy the fact that we do something like that.

And I'll keep forking out the money to keep republik running as long as SL is around and people are having a good time. .

Workers do have things they need to pay for. Thers where tips "DID" help easy the buying problems for them.........Asking for LLabs to pay more of club owner expaences is silly. Dwelling did help but if one can`t take the cost and want LLabs to pay for support in this day and age on sl is totally out of the times on sl. Owners inthe most part do it for friends an fun .enjoyment. But don`t expect LLabs to help you clear a profit paying for host djs and your dances. Its just out of tone for thes days on sl.

This is what the name of the game is on sl with owners......

Our setup is similar. Anyone wearing our "staff" tag is a friend helping out. In our case we did the mall, casino and freebie/$1 store to help give our location more than a "club" feel.. but none of it pays the bills. Anyone out there running a club for any length of time is not in it for the funds - we all have different reasons for doing what we do, but money isn't one of them.

Also to clarify my earlier post - I'm not looking for handouts from LL to help the club, just am "annoyed" by having to compete with LL funded activities when it comes to keeping good staff.. especially when LL tells us they're going to even the field one day and then the next changes their mind.



Same here - and probably for most of the others who have had a club for a while.

--
- Aaron / Wagahai

You know how hard it is to find people that want to work? LOL i have given up on it. I used to pay the people 500L or more for just 3 hours. I find that people dont want to work but they want the money...

Its good to know that there are still some reasonable owners out there like yourself
Well like real Life people want things for free if they are given a chance. Hats off to you

About time!!!
Congrats on finally opening the club Lina
Drop me an IM when your there i'll come have a look

I agree with you Doubledown.
I am on both sides of the Music scene in SL. My sim Menorca is there to host and promote any SL musician that would like to play there. I am also a performer too. What I see is that the actual promotion of ones music in SL is the best thing, it isn't about the money per se, more that I am able to have my music heard by far more people than if I just posted on my website. I certainly don't earn a wage as a musician in SL. what I do get however is a larger fan base and when my album eventually is released, perhaps a few more people may buy it.I feel this is a great return for what I do.

Venues pay the artists yes, and Yes!, the Live music listeners are very generous when it comes to tipping. As a host however, when I start to use the box office, to be able to realistically recoup the money that I spend on tier and paying the musicians, I would be looking at charging at least 200-300 lindens per event, per person, minimum. Since I have had the sim, I have paid for it out of my own pocket, for every musician that plays there, being rather hesitant about suddenly charging entrance fees whilst so many other places don't.

I run the risk of people to not coming to my sim when I start charging entrance if I do this alone, but each artist is so worth it! Therefore perhaps all clubs should be using the box office and Live music will no longer be the freebie for residents as it has been until now.


If I were lets say to have one musician play each day in Menorca that is lets say. approx 17 thousand lindens per week. X that by 52 weeks , in theory I would pay out 880 thousand lindens over year. In RL money that works out at approx 2,900 US dollars per year (about 1500 UK pounds )
Add that to the tier for Menorca as a sim each month at 195 US dollars.
(The total for tier is therefore approx 2.340 US dollars per year).

The average cost of my sim therefore , theoretically running 7 days a week with an artist each day would cost me 5240 US dollars per year.(2,800 pounds)
(5240 US dollars = approx 1.5 million lindens)
Each week that approximates to about 28 thousand lindens that I would need to bring in, to run my sim at break even.

In practice however, most sims, or clubs that host Live music Don't run 7 days a week. The above was just an example and very approx costing.

As a Musician there are many times I play for free, simply because I love what I do and as I said before, the fact that I can be heard by so many people all over the world through this platform is incredible. I also am aware of how much it costs to run these music events and for the owners as you can see, it can become an expensive outlay.

Any incentive forthcoming from Linden Labs each month would certainly help to offset some of the costs of this. The way things are progressing on the music scene in SL is astounding really and it would be lovely for some extra support from LL in this regard.

There are maybe other ways that LL can help out.
I am pleased to see the changes they HAVE implemented on event times now and also that Music is listed on the website to promote Live music events. That is brilliant!

Slim

During the last 14 weeks My partner and I built up a sim from nothing..it was 90% sand and water. Today and about 1400+ hours of hard work, we have an art gallery in Raziel Vesperia,
Showcasing the works of the real life artist who also is my partner, a photography studio, a residential area with 3 homes..all rented out, A TV Game studio, 2 storefronts, a solo slingo parlor, and across the street in Flyingroc Chung, we have a mall with vendor spaces, 2 hotels that are 100% chat private and 201 meters high, on top of these hotels sits our casino, and on the 2nd hotel our 60x50 nightclub, The Hot $pot, and of course down the street our corporate Headquarters/realty offices.
I started as a dancer and escort, won't mention names here..and i made good lindens..approx. 25k a week after dishing out 20% to the clubs i worked in..I vowed one day I will have a club where dancers are treated with respect, they provide an enteraining evening for our guests, we never take any percentages from their tips..I want THEM to make money, I don't care if we make any or not, as long as our girls do..we do not provide escort services. I tried to make the club nice, friendly and enjoyable. No drama.
And my girls are the best..they have worked their *sses off for me and my partner since we opened friday night. For now we are only open 7pm until 12 am nightly, until i can get a staff i can depend on for days and nights, then look for good hosts to run 2 hour events, good DJ's to run 2 hour shows who will plug our club often, and our dancers, we do not mind paying for these services.. And we (my partner and I will discuss paying dancers as well to supplement their tips.) But most important to me, is no one disrespects my girls.
We want to go 24/7..but we get dancers in who will not or are unwilling to be interviewed. I like to know who i am hiring. We expect our girls to have class, self esteem and enjoy working with us. I am trying very hard to make this pay off, for our girls..I paid my dues the first 8-10 weeks playing..so i know what Dancers go through..it is hard work..and they have to always be buying sexy outfits to wear..And I am also seeking trustworthy managers who can be there to keep the club open..omg..this should be in classifieds huh?
O well..my 8 lindens worth. don't bash me too bad..okay?

I'm here doin the same thing as you, both as a performer, and running a venue. I have this occupation in RL as well. For me, its for the love of the good time, the music, the people that wanna see the show. I play for free in SL usually, and am not playing to try to make money. I only ask for a fee when the event is profitable for the event creator.
However, when I created my venue in SL, I had big ideas and big plans. I wanted to run a profitable lounge.... not to be greedy or to make real monies.... but to treat SL as a game, and to be successful at this game. Its fun to try to start an SL enterprise and see that your efforts are compensated. Its upsetting to see that MANY of us ARE running venues successfully, but there is no profit to show for it (or even less of a loss). Most of us are in it for the love of it.... but as I see it, there is no point spending tons of USD for the love.

I am upset that in SL most all businesses can have a successful formula but it has to involve either selling a product or offering services, however the way that SL is set up, land owners for creative events (that don't sell items) have absolutely no way of making any money whatsoever. I would like LL to realize this, and create small stipends for the organizers/land owners of the events.

If LL can shell out $500L anytime someone approved teaches a class about anything, then they can afford to shell out some bucks to keep creative event creators afloat. These people are the ones that can pack a sim and keep users online for multiple hours.

sidenote... the reason entrance fees do not work in SL is because in SL, people can teleport, and users don't want to feel stuck at one spot because they paid. I personally like being able to teleport to a show, stay for 5 mins, and go to another show.

Hosting tips have been declining steadily over the past few months. I won't waste two hours of my time hosting an event for $50L in tips when I can get that sitting in a camp chair somewhere while doing something in RL, or I can just buy 1K for $3 and change.

Tips as a dancer...forget it. Not even worth a mention.

I'd say club employee burn-out is pretty high.

Well thats like 60 cents an hour....

"If LL can shell out $500L anytime someone approved teaches a class about anything, then they can afford to shell out some bucks to keep creative event creators afloat. These people are the ones that can pack a sim and keep users online for multiple hours.
" Well in the old days yes........But LLabs is headed in a different direction.
Learning is a different factor, we need to educated the users to build different secments of the sl game. Not just having dance around clubs like the did inthe past.
Just my 3 yen

preface: please reread my posts... I'm not talking about any old hangout and dance location... that's nothing creative.

The classes in SL are not just about building firstoff. I've seen classes on how chat, how to use groups, how to upload textures, how to make a pimp cane, how to teleport, how to landmark, etc etc etc etc ...... such basic simple stuff that anyone could figure out if they messed with things for 5 mins. and the people teaching these classes are doing it for the quick $500L. I bet even (since you only need 5 people to get the $500L) a group of friends keep posting the same classes, attend, and get paid. Teazers even has 'fly-bys' so when a class doesn't even have 5 people, the teazers staff hangs out to bump the numbers up (which is permitted).

And what is the point of learning all of this stuff? So you can progress forward in SL and make the world more interesting. LL obviously sees the value in making the world more interesting... so why can't LL see that the land owners that have creative events actually do make SL more interesting, but they have NO WAY of recouping costs... whereas everything else in SL does have a method of some kind of return funds.

I do read,but at times all i do is read how LLabs "COULD" pay clubs if they can pay instructors......

My point is stop wishing for things that LLabs has no intention of doing.......

It's not about me wishing for anything. I also know they (probably) won't change anything...
I'm stating facts regarding a flaw in SL society, community, & entertainment.

I'm also stating that the owner of the land that has creative events only will innevitably shut down the venue, dispite the passion.... and this is sad, and hypocritical to what LL says they stand for.

Just imagine what SL would be now (relating to events) if the experienced eventmakers could have continued.

Well I for one don`t suger coating any issue when it comes to support. I been forward about hosting support and instructor support inthe past year. These days SL is awhole new game with lineup of objectives and vales some good some not so good. But like rl eco rules how the future the quality of life is and will be.........

and your point is?

You know why? 98% of them are AFK all the time...that is why people dont get tipped or paid well. Its basically sleeping on the job...