Events Filter - commercial vs social.

Having been out and about visiting many events and gathering opinions it would seem that many people are un-happy with the way the events board looks at the moment.

I think we need to break it down to at LEAST social & commercial so that players looking to gather for social events dont have to troll through hoards of Tringo ads and vice versa.

The mature filter works well and I believe adding 'social' and 'commercial' will work in the same way.So what defines a 'commercial' event? is gambling commercial, do we deifine a commercial event as anything that puts L$ in the pocket of the host or landowner?

Social events such as poetry readings and art exhibitions deserve a right to shine in SL in the same way that the hords of Tringo games do but they get buried under a morass of gambling - just a couple of filters will fix that.

Also having DIRECT tp's on the event listing will save people being hijacked to events & places they have no wish to attend.(in reference to those folks in EVERY group who are only there to hijack people to their own location)

By just having THREE filters mature/social/commercial we could have a working events board again...................thoughts?

I like the idea.

(apparently I am of the socializer caste)

hmmm how do you define social versus commercial? Commercial to me is a yard sale a store opening or something were you are trying to sell an item.

Poetry readings and art showings are not the only social events in fact I would say unfortunately that they are less "social" then some of the events people are complaining about.

A week or two ago there was a great art show event with fireworks at the River walk I went a few times prior to the closing event which was a weekend night prime time. In addition to going I sent out note cards about it to many people and when the event was occuring I advertised it on all the groups I belong to. I did so not because I was affiliated with the event or owners in any way but because It was a really nice event well done and I see so much complaining about lack of events.

Well from all the groups and note cards I thingk maybe 5 people showed up, yet many of these other events were well attended. I would certainly like to see more diversity in events but I dont really see how blaming these events is the issue, nor do I see trying to label them commercial is fair either as many are social.

Personally, I consider the games such as Tringo, Bingo and Slingo to NOT be commercial. Yes, there are money pots.. but the games are INTERACTIVE and very social atmospheres. I have made probably 99% of my in-world SL friends at these events.

I have no problem whatsoever with commercial events. For me, an event is an event. I am either interested or I am not interested. I would hate to see LL attempt to categorize what is commercial vs what isn't commercial. I would much rather let the crew currently working towards a new events calendar focus on some excellent filtering where we can individually sort, highlight and remove events we are interested in or not interested in from our personal schedules.

All events in SL are social. So this category doesn't make sense. Whether a store opening, a Tringo game, or a poetry reading.

You'll find that once you filter out the things you "hate" like clubs, Tringo, sales, and supposedly have all this room for the arts stuff to shine...you'll discover there is no arts stuff. It's an illusion that there's all this high-brown culture just waiting to break free from its Tringo shackles to shine. Not so.

That's why I keep saying to those complaining most about the lack of high culture in SL to create the content and put it out there and do the work. Instead of waiting to be entertained by those 10 percent of the people that Will Wright said would entertain the other 90 percent.

I think you'll find most people find plays and poetry to be boring because they don't work well in settings with lag, scrolling text, only half sentences, noise and distractions, etc.

Giving people the ability to type "Tringo" into a box to ostensibly "clean up" the events listing is like having people mute Prok on the forums -- it doesn't really work the way you think it does LOL.

I was shocked to discover, today, for example, that a person giving a class is discouraged by Sox and others and bullied into submission on the belief that he is doing something wrong by having a yard sale, putting an item out for sale for $1, or having the event be a venue for him selling something of his own. And shocked to find out that he could only have one class a day.

What is all this hatred of commerce? Give it up!

The only way better culture can appear is when businesses can sponsor it. Business must therefore not be shackled, but thrive. Businesses have to be able to place ads and products during events and not be looking over their shoulders at net nannies.

There needs to be explicit permission to have sales/business related events like product display, sales at stores, themed fairs, real estate tours, etc. These are all normal things that many people will attend in the game. Rather than hiding and running from the fact that people game posrates, pos and neg should be emphatically used at such venues to express approval or disapproval of someone's efforts to make products, clothes, houses, etc. -- so that these ratings begin to have more life and meaning.

When there is more freedom and less hampering of business in the game, it will be the tide that rises all boats, and the arts will flourish too.

Perhaps simple categories like:

ARTS
EDUCATION
GAMES
ENTERTAINMENT
SALES

is all you need.

Well as usual Prok you speak of things you know nothing about.

A. He was not giving a class.
B. He was not bullied into anything - the gentleman in question buys a plot of land on a sim which he the fills with items specifically to cause lag - he then sets the land for sale knowing that it has to be bought in order to kill the lag he's causing.We bought him out and removed all the items from the sim.
C. 90% of what he was selling were not his to sell and he had pose balls set for sale at $75 each so shush with this $1 rubbish.
D. We did contact a Linden and we acted on his advice AFTER he had viewed the items on sale and advised us to contact the makers and inform them that their goods were being sold WITHOUT permission so that they could file abuse reports.
E.When the owners turned up they informed us that said gentleman does this all over SL - and will no doubt do it again.

If you think that selling other peoples goods as your own is GOOD business practice then you sir are talking through your backside,one can only hope you feel the same way when someone starts ripping your stuff off.

Your an amusing little forum troll Prok but what you know about events and running them could be written down on the back of a postage stamp as you proved at the first event group meeting where,I beleive, you were abuse reported twice for your abusive mouth.

I'm going to add myself to your growing army of fans and stick you on ignore where you belong because I'm done reading your paranoid dellusional tripe - good day sir.

This is not about what you like or dislike,nor is it about numbers,it's really about giving everyone a fair crack of the whip.

Wether an event attracts five or fifty does not matter as long as those attending have FUN.

We need a filter system and we need to keep it simple,the definitions of events will of course be left to Linden Labs not us,all we have to do is come up with workable ideas for filters.

With 'mature' 'social' 'commercial' I was genralising just to point towards the simplicity we need not singling anyone out for critisism.

The point is that ALL events have a place in Second Life & ALL deserve to be seen so we need better filters.I am part of the event planner group and thats why I'm asking for your thoughts to take forward to the next meeting.

Well if I were to filter things I would simply look at the biggest categories and allow pwopl to filter them ON of OFF--- simply, GAMING events like tringo, and DANCECLUB events like "Best Sexy in Black at Lestats" seem to be at least 75% of events in SL. Allow us to filter those out (not that they are without merit) or filter them IN, and we can then see the more "creative" events in a clear picture, should we be looking for something "different". If we feel like playing a game or going dancing for prizes, we can turn those filters back on... though, after 4+ months in SL, yes, I am looking for "fresh" idea events..... and yes, they do get LOST amongst the games and dance contests.

You been out of game Dana? we aint held an event at Lestats for months lol apart from a VERY occasional one.

I must respond to the lies against me in this forum..

A. He was not giving a class.

That an outright falshood, It was a supported class visited by the Lindens. Everyone who attented thanked me over and over for giving my time and knowledge freely.

B. He was not bullied into anything - the gentleman in question buys a plot of land on a sim which he the fills with items specifically to cause lag - he then sets the land for sale knowing that it has to be bought in order to kill the lag he's causing.We bought him out and removed all the items from the sim.

Another outright falsehood based purely on opinion. I bought the land for the use intented, I used less than 1/3 my prim. I moved from the sim because the person complaining has a club and rentals causeing my land to be so lagged no one could move. The sim I'min now has no lag issues. When I return to the sim where the club and rentals are i feel very lagged again so clearly it's not my 200 prim causing your lag. I didn't have a building, so don'tcomplain about causing lag when you have so much lag cuasing things. Buy the sim and do what you want. Don't whine about what others do on their own land.

C. 90% of what he was selling were not his to sell and he had pose balls set for sale at $75 each so shush with this $1 rubbish.

More untruths, everything I sell is mine to sell, I bought poseballs for resale to support my giving of lindens to newbies. I talked to the creator after your complaint and explained I bought the balls for $200 each because of her large sign offering them as resellable items, she said she had changed the sign, but that was well after I bought them. My contract for the balls were as it was at the time I bought the balls. If you look the balls are still for sale on my land at anywhere from $0L to $75L as is my right. I mark the balls not copiable because that's how I want to sell them. I give some away, I sell some, it's called business. And it's up to me who I help with my L made from my investment. The freebies I offer for $1L are lised as freebies with a huge sign stating these are freebies and can be found elsewhere free. Not a single creator complained to me about selling any item, so maybe you should have them contact me so I can remove they freebie item from my land.

D. We did contact a Linden and we acted on his advice AFTER he had viewed the items on sale and advised us to contact the makers and inform them that their goods were being sold WITHOUT permission so that they could file abuse reports.

Again, no one ever complained to me for selling freebies for an L and everything else is mine in every legal and moral sense to sell or do as I see fit. I have heard nothing from any reports of abuse by you, so it seems there was no merit to your complaints as far as LL was concerned.

E.When the owners turned up they informed us that said gentleman does this all over SL - and will no doubt do it again.

Please Please Please tell me who these owners are so I can pull their stuff from my land. Or stop the whining.

I'm very sorry to those who have to wade thru these flame fests, please excuse my defensiveness, it's human nature I suppose lol

What planet was that on? I attended your "class", didn't see any Lindens there, and left in disgust after about 5 minutes when I figured it was just a scam. I certainly didn't thank you.



I disagree that reselling free items is morally acceptable if the creator has not given permission. Have you contacted the creators of the items you are reselling? It's easy enough to IM someone and ask them if they mind if you resell their stuff. They might even have more free content they can provide you, or an updated version to sell. If they do mind, then don't sell their stuff. Untill SL has a feature to mark items as re-givable but not re-sellable, reselling free content is morally suspicious at least.

You were on another planet, you said you already learned everything I was teaching the first week you started the game, so appearntly you came for the AV you choose to buy for $1L for which you complained in this forum, not to me in the class, in fact I didn't count you are an attendee because you were not interested in the class as was appearent to me. I gave you back $10L for your $1L purchase of the AV box I offered, you rejected that offer so it wasn't the money. Maybe it was the fact you aren't offering any classes and feel the need to attack the very few who are. The day you came I think there was 2 classes listed in the calander. There is no way anyone would complain about $1L for an AV in a box used for learning how to unpack a box, make folders within folders, how to use folders to change appearance instantly .... which is really just an exersize in controling and using inventory correctly. These are things newbies really need, and many older users tell me they didn't know they could do. Maybe the class was worthless to you as you know almost everything in SL. But it's valued by those who come, participate, and thank me for it. Another thing, I leave out the class items and notecard distibutor on my land 24/7 for those who missed the class, I accept all questions from those with problems anytime I'm online. So don't come on here suggesting you know my motives. When you do something better that wht I'm offering, tell people on the event board you are offering it. Stop complaining to those of us who actually do the work you refuse to do.

LOL - well the 2 private messages I've had about where you've moved to now Kevn make it utterly clear about what your particular game is in Second Life.

Both Messages have been forwarded to LL.

You were NOT holding classes on my Sim - you were holding a yard sale selling other peoples creations for $75 or more - you also had FREE items for sale and in some cases for much more than $1.

Anyone in ANY doubt about what Kevn actually does in game should IM Nigel Linden who was the Liason on the scene who advised us to remove this man from our sim and to report him to the owners of the items he was selling so that THEY could file abuse reports on him.

I dont have to PROVE anything against you Kevn because as you are WELL aware you dont actually break the TOS - however - what you do IS both unethical and dishonest so I CAN warn other people not to fall for your scams through this public forum.

Once again - if this man is pulling the same thing on your sim please dont PM me - IM Nigel Linden in game as Nigel was the one who helped us.

I answered those charges already. Now, let's look at your game. You come here to attack rather than build up. You run a club and are bitter I get support from LL for classes while you have lost your support. I feel for ya man, but you need to get a grip. This is a game, sounds like you are getting bent out of shape. Hating only hurts the hater. I'm sitting here having coffee in my office chilling out. I held a nice class yesterday, was the only one on the board, what did you do? lol

Stayed at Number Seven in the top 20 most popular places WITHOUT holding any events

Just like we have for the last 2 months

Oh and I DJ'd to over 200 listeners

Added a few more friends to the largest groups in SL

Comforted one of my friends over the loss of her brother in law

Gave a new player her first home in SL

Saw one of my dancers place his first vendor on his way to a business,THAT we helped him set up

Met up with my SL partner for the first time in 3 days

Yeah - yesterday was pretty quiet

Those are all good things and deserve praise. See, now doesn't that feel good concentrating on the positive. All those smiles, this has to be good for us all. Now if we can just keep it civil like this from now on and dwell on the issues rather than each other we could actually be productive and make something good happen.

I'm always positive - you mistake passion for anger.

What? like getting you to stop dumping crap in the middle of our sim you mean? OH! & before you start warbling about 'proof' again I got Char to take a look

Like you said to talk to Nigel to get proof, I talked to him, he didn't have a clue what you were talking about, and he told me to file a complaint against you for harrassment if you are attacking me in forums as you do at every turn. It's like you fear talking about ideas, you feel the need to attack personally those you dislike.

Let's start by teaching you what this forum is for since you don't know. I'll just cut and paste the most obvious. The forum PURPOSE is as follows:

Event Discussion
Questions, ideas, and tips for managing and hosting Second Life events. (Please do not use this forum to announce or review specific events.)

Talking about my events or anyone else's event, whether good or bad, is outside the boundries of acceptable behavior in this furum. If you want to be one of those people who ignore the rules and purpose to disrupe the sharing of ideas I hope your posts are deleted by the LL for blattant disregard of the rules and purpose.

You constantly break every rule concerning forums and the entire purpose. If you want to belly ache about others actions in sl do it in your group im window, or im everyone you ever meet to complain about the boogy men around you. I'll report every time you continue to break these rules and purpose.

It seems to me Kevn took care of all the concerns anyone might have, at least he did for me, but I still had a question:

We need to define "commercial" and "yard sale" in such a way that everyone is happy so that the filters are acceptable.

if a creator has put an item on resell/give away, well, you resell/give away. So what? That's the right of the owner to do, in a yard sale, for any price. Just as in RL, he shouldn't have to contact the maker and ask if it is ok if he can place a used item on ebay. RL doesn't work that way, and if it seems like it should work that way for some in SL, then they have different values based on different cultures and we need to discuss and find solutions, not slam, and not insist that one way is the "right way". The creators might start thinking to put "no transfer" if they are that upset about yard sales.



Stealing something and calling it your own is one thing. But again, I have questions on this. If someone who has bought one of my products I sell for $50, and resells it for $25 at a yard sale, I can only congratulate him on recouping his cost. I sold him a copy, and I moved on to find other customers. He found a possible new customer for me when he sold someone my item, used, because now that person sees my name and maybe comes to my stores and buys more.



As it happens, Prokofy has tons of experiences running events. That's not at issue. It seems what might be at issue is different methods or ideas or values here. Seems to be a value to you that you stayed in top 20 *without* having an event. That's a great accomplishment. I think most people would have to have loads of events if they even want to get above 20 on their traffic on their lot.

Since this is a discussion about events, what we're going to have to face is that there is a huge disparity in the meaning of the word "commercial" in the community. People think it could mean making a profit for the host or it could mean something that isn't "the arts".

Tringo seems to put money in the host's pocket, and the gamers' pocket, but is social for some. On the other hand, it's a game. What could happen if the filter can be togged freely, some Tringo owners will put it in "games" and other "commercial" and some in "social" so if your goal was to keep Tringo from hurting your eyes, what have you solved from filters that players control?

If you have a Linden-driven device that automatically takes the word "Tringo" and force-ports it into the category "commercial," people will just start getting clever and writing "Tringooooo" or "TTTTringo" and putting it in "Arts" or "Non-Commercial".

I have to say I get stumped about this one but I'm for having the players chose the category, but unfortunately needing Linden moderators to keep an eye on their selection.

Already done - report away



It's not about Tringo,it's not about ANY type of event & it's not about 'control'. At the end of the day the only way we're ever going to have an events board that works,even WITH filters,is if they are moderated because someone will ALWAYS try to game the game.

Robin has said that the events calendar has not been moderated for some time now,hopefully once a filter system is set up this will change.This is not a discussion as to wether we should have filters,because we ARE having filters,we need to come up with something workable for when we do.



Noooooooo. What I'm thinking is something like when you POST the event. Like now for example when you post your event your asked if it's mature and if it is you tick that and on the events board people have a box to either include or exclude mature events yes?

So you could include something like 'commercial' 'social' for when events are posted...

Mature Event?: Yes, this will be a mature event.

Commercial Event?: Yes, this will be a mature event.

Social Event?: Yes, this will be a mature event.

These three boxes are also on the events calendar to be checked or not so that players can look for the kind of event they want, so in effect its left to the poster to decide on what their event will be, and left to Linden Labs to make sure nobody games the game.

My reference to the kind of gaming that could come with "Tttttrrringo" versus "Tringo" is that some players have taken such a visceral dislike to the word that they'd like a google-type of search-term box that would help eliminate the word itself out of their eyesight. The could set up Boolean searches I guess...



I'm assuming you mean "yes, this will be a commercial event".

OK, but what my point is on that is that different players will have different ideas of whether Tringo is social or commercial.

Some Tringo hosts will click off social, others will click off commercial. That means Tringo once again begins to invade multiple categories and give people who are annoyed by Tringo the sense of flooding.

So in advance, we need to debate whether games like Tringo always have to be in a category like commercial, i.e. that mods will set up an ROC that will provide an advance interpretation that all Tringo ro Slingo or Bingo has to go in "games" if, say, you had "games" as a category.

The first thing that will happen is that people with interesting games like "Darklife" will cry foul if they were hoping the new filtering and commercial possibilities etc will mean that what could have been a filter that would help their games and lots show up will still have to fight Tringo clutter.

I'm still thinking that "commercial" is too broad a filter, because there will be about 2 and a half items that don't fit on it -- i.e. if someone has the group on stroke victims, for example. If you are going to fill "non-commercial" with educational, sure, you add then a few classes on scripting or building. But then that list has like 5 or 6 things in it a day. All you have done is culled out those very few items that are very hard to find now in the clutter, but still left clutter back on the "commercial" list.

That's why I"m for taking a stab at making a bit more of a thematic list.

Role-Playing and Skills Games -- Darklife type games as well as Primtionary
Money-Making Games -- Tringo, gambling
Contests -- best-dressed avatar
Arts -- plays, poetry readings
Non-Profit -- stroke victims, AA, women's rights, etc.
Educational -- scripting, building in SL
Commercial -- only sales events like a product display, real-estate tour, etc.
Entertainment -- dances, video shows
Adult -- sexay avatar, porn

I think "commercial" is a category of event in which the resident attempts to sell something. Those who don't want to have to attend an event that will in effect be a thinly-disguised infomercial then can avoid that category completely. And business people doing infomercials can stop thinly disguising them as events, and do them as forthright product displays.

A Tringo event is also money for the host, but since it is money for the visitor who comes to the game it's a different concept than a product display.

The category "social" to me is too vague, anything can be social if it has more than one avatar attending it.

Yeah but..........I'm just genralising by using 'commercial' and 'social' as examples.

I agree we need better filters but I think it should be left to the poster of the event to decide,just as it is now when you tick that little box to declare - yes this is a 'mature' event.

Then its left to the player to tick that box to include mature events in what they are looking for.

The decision of what the content will be is not going to be up to us,the players,all we can do is suggest catagories - Linden Labs will decide what events should be listed under gambling for example.

Dark Life does not use the events board and as Robin has already pointed out,places that put on Tringo 24/7 should'nt be posting on events every hour anyway.

The trick here is that we do not try to micro manage this,it NEEDS to be simplified in order to work so we do need to have as few catagories as possible.No doubt there will be some grey areas but then again no system is perfect.

What you need to do here is think what an events PRIMARY function is. I understand that say for example, Bingo is a social gathering, BUT its primary function is making money for the person holding the event, same with Casino's.

Also you need to define 'making money' as $L and not real $ simply because everyone gets dwell.

It's basic common sense, so we need to avoid the trap of going too deep or we'll end up with a filter list three miles long.Simplicity IS the key here.

Oh and please excuse the typing, I cant feel my fingers atm lol

maybe a checkbox where certain activities will be taking place

would far easier to moniter and report abuse

check all that applly to your event which would make filtering a beeze

items for sale
fee based gambling
mature content
specialized support (aa, cancer survivers, greenpeace)
instruction
free giveaways
celebrating (possible misuse)
participation fee required
free participation
free amusement or entertainment
fee based amusement or entertainment

I realize it makes the list longer, but this sort of detail would be very easy to enforce and very helpful for finding exactly what type of event one is looking for