In your opinion: Does LL do QA?

In your opinion, do you think the people "fixing" things or adding new content actually are doing proper QA testing, or are having thier work QA tested by person(s)?

Let LL see what the Residents think.

Vote/Discuss.

~Jessy

Last Wednesday I ran into Joe Linden on Siva, and he said they QA the patches for a while before they put them on the test grids - yeah, fucking right they do! (can you taste the sarcasm?)

Personally I think they don't know what QA IS!!!!!!

Considering the myrad of hardware they support, and the sheer complexity of the system, Second Life opperates VERY well.

In the sense that LL means
Laughably Ludicrous
and QA means
Quite Awful

then they probably do.

Rant time again.

Of course they QA.

How on earth are they supposed to QA test it at MAXIMUM CAPACITY? This is when any flaws will show up, when the system is at load.

Yes it is annoying when the grid is shut and we can't play. I am peeved ... was in the middle of a conversation I'd dearly love to continue but what's the point in ranting and raving like a petulant child.

Let them get on with sorting it out, for god's sakes. Oh yes and before anyone goes 'well if you were paying' blah blah blah I *AM* paying. Only only region's worth, mind.

I have some empathy for how the LL staff are feeling right now and I can tell you without speaking to any of them that it is fed up and wishing it was working. How do I know? I've had the brunt of player abuse when things we have worked on, which worked just fine during every test pre rollout, borked at full load. It's soul destroying to be the people facing the barrage of abuse that comes your way as a result.

Why not try reading a book for a while instead?

GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

:rolleyes" yes it takes "MAXIMUM CAPACITY" to catch the mouse not working properly. They release THOUSANDS of obvious bugs that don't require a load to catch. They can't even run the asset server which is just a website. Maybe LL does token QA, but you can't bullshit me into believing they put any serious time or effort into it.

You ever worked as a professional QA monkey?

*edit* Bulshit nothing. I see another side to this and if you want to listen to me fine, if not fine. I am not an apologist for LL, there's plenty annoys me too. However, I refuse to be the one sitting there bayig for blood without any appreciation of the process. This is not necessarily aimed at you Jon.

Actually, some of us do work in the QA field. Those of us that do are of two minds. Those like yourself who feel for LL having to muck through all the myrid problems, and others who feel that LL should clean up the muck they have so there are fewer problems. Each side has thier opinion. The point of the poll is to see how the community sees LL. Appearances can mean more than you may think.

~Jessy

Fair point Jessica. That wasn't what I was trying to say either - mainly it was that the people who will get the flak are not necessarily the ones who have any CONTROL over it.

Perhaps not very clear - I personally have already worked well over 30 hours so far this week and I am cranky

Of course they do, and anyone who seriously thinks otherwise doesn't understand business. You can debate if their QA techniques are doing a good job, or if their QA methods are up to snuff...if you knew them that is. But to say they don't do QA is a bit on the patently silly side.

We are dealing with extremely complex systems here, that grow ever more complex every day. I may joke and take part in "How long until the grid goes down" bets, but that is more from a position of understanding and the morbid humour associated with it, than any form of complaining.

Recently a few extremely damaging exploits managed to get past LL's QA and I did speak up and complain about them. I felt the particualr update was rushed and too bugged to not say so. But, my complaints were not zOMG the sky is falling lets kill LL!

Let's at least be realistic. LL has internal QA, but they can not possibly catch every bug. Better to take the grid down and fix an issue that does arise than simply ignore it.

"professional QA monkey"

Not that exact job title. But I have written and debugged tons of code. I'm well aware of how hard some bugs can be to detect and how sometimes it takes the oddest thing to make them show up. But I'm also well aware that it's BULLSHIT to brush off all the problems with saying they need maximum load to catch them. Some yes an awful lot of the one's that hit main grid... NO! Maybe your not an LL apologist but you are full of it. And foolish to think you can talk down to anyone who thinks LL ain't doing their job.

Oh, I agree there. The people fixing the bugs or making new features get blamed for things QA missed and QA gets blamed for things the fixers and makers screw up that isn't readily apparent.

The other factor (which I posted in Answers earlier) is as you said; that the Preview Grid doesn't "stress test" the content as the Main Grid does. If that is one of the overriding factors, then that's management who needs to do a reverse cranial rectumoty and rethink how the Preivew Grid is used and/or constructed.

All in all, my opinion is LL as a company is lacking in thier developemnt process. It is not only stressing Residents with downtime, costing Residents in currency (RL and L$), but is driving off long-time Residents and turning away new Residents as LL appears to be incompetent in fixing issues and integrating new features.

Wether or not the appearance is a true representation of the reality, the impact is.

Though this is only my opinion, and may, or may not, actually be reality.

~Jessy

Given how LL describes the workings of their office(which is NOT standard business) I wouldn't be at all surprised if alot of code changes get blended at the last minute without seeing any QA or testing as part of the larger software package.

LOL - I am not even going to waste keystrokes on dignifying that when the conversation I was having is on MSN looking very pretty.

I think the real problem here is that you've offered a single, exclusive disjunction, and not a plausible one.

Of course LL does QA. The question, is whether they do enough, or the right kind, or whether there might be a better approach than the one they are taking. To ask, are they or aren't they is silly. No software company that is capable of releasing a functioning product at all does so without QA!

Now, if you'd asked, do they do it right? Is thier testing regime appropriate? Are they communicating enough with users both during QA testing and after the release cycle about the nature and process of dealing with issues that exist?

These are all legitimate questions, and worth discussing, and things that LL would do well to listen to the discussion of. If I were LL, I'd look at a poll like this and just ignore it because there's no useful feedback to be gotten from the terms in which it has been posed.

If you want a useful answer, first you've gotta ask the right question.

Too late you alrdy dignified it with a response.

And the complaints department get screamed at (maybe they are foolish and talk down to people, LOL). Too right. When my partner (who is a game designer) started out in QA it infuriated him that he was returning well detailed bugs and being told '&*45 it, ship it'.

SL is different tho. It's not an end product in a box where take the money and run is an option. Personally I am just glad I don't have to manage their helplines every Wednesday.

This stuff does all need sorting out though. Sooner the better from the point of view of retention - stability and liquidity are key, after all.

I did. Read the "No" answer again. It doesn't state they don't do any. It states they should do more. Even the "Yes" answer states that it is a complex issue so both answers cover a lot of grey area as well.

And you are always free to abstain if you feel your opinion is in a futher grey area

~Jessy

I'll dignify that one too. Have a lollypop, kiddo.

Every wednesday, you wonder...will we be able to get in SL ?....I have a couple planning to use our wedding chapel tonite...i started to warn them last nite, weds is baddddd for planning anything in SL...but they were in such a good mood, i hated to burst their bubble, and the Lindens PROMISED the last time this would not happen again, they would plan better, do more QA, test the grids, etc etc etc blah blah blah blah.. i still say if i screwed up this bad in real, id be out looking for another job. Its simple things..like what was wrong with the group thing that they had to fix it, other than ppl wanted more than 15? Shakes head in wonder, i bet they really tried to fancy that up and now we have mysterious "PRESENCE" poor Mick...i bet they drew straws to have to be the Linden to post that one..geezzzz

Sorry if im so cynical...but they did promise not to do weekly changes, and to test more, am i wrong to be upset ??

I've stopped expecting to play on Wednesdays to be honest. Every Wednesday night - at least if you're in the US it might NOT impact your evening, UK and Europe it is always a primetime outage.

Just discussing this matter with a friend as i stumbled here, to us it seems like we seem to be the testers.

That would also have been my point to be honest ... the max load part ...